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Australia recalls Indonesian ambassador after execution

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Was Australia right to recall its ambassador to Indonesia?

Yes
98
71%
No
40
29%
 
Total votes : 138

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Arumdaum
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Posts: 24409
Founded: Oct 21, 2009
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Arumdaum » Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:47 am

Kenzinia wrote:
Arumdaum wrote:Would Prabowo Subianto have been any better?

Err... idk...

How come you're into Indonesian politics? *Countryball language*

indonesia seems alright
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Kenzinia
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Founded: Dec 20, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Kenzinia » Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:55 am

Arumdaum wrote:
Kenzinia wrote:Err... idk...

How come you're into Indonesian politics? *Countryball language*

indonesia seems alright

I salute you sir. :bow:
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Dain II Ironfoot
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Postby Dain II Ironfoot » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:00 am

Their own decision, though i can't feel sorry for those executed one bit. They know they law over there so its they knew the risk they took, i'm glad they are treated like every other person and have been executed.
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Napkiraly
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Ex-Nation

Postby Napkiraly » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:04 am

Dain II Ironfoot wrote:Their own decision, though i can't feel sorry for those executed one bit. They know they law over there so its they knew the risk they took, i'm glad they are treated like every other person and have been executed.

Like the Indonesian guy they spared?

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Dain II Ironfoot
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Founded: Jan 01, 2015
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Postby Dain II Ironfoot » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:05 am

Napkiraly wrote:
Dain II Ironfoot wrote:Their own decision, though i can't feel sorry for those executed one bit. They know they law over there so its they knew the risk they took, i'm glad they are treated like every other person and have been executed.

Like the Indonesian guy they spared?


I'm sure there's a reason for that, they aren't sparing each and every indonesian guy if that's what you believe.
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Tradition must be respected, for it is the voice of our ancestors.
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The Greater Aryan Race
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Founded: Mar 21, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby The Greater Aryan Race » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:05 am

Hate to be frank about this but dead is dead. Like it or not, Indonesia has a right to enforce it's own laws within it's sovereign borders. Australia's recalling of her ambassador won't bring the smugglers back and frankly, just comes across as being overtly petulant and pointless.
Imperium Sidhicum wrote:So, uh... Is this another one of those threads where everyone is supposed to feel outraged and circle-jerk in agreement of how injust and terrible the described incident is?

Because if it is, I'm probably going to say something mean and contrary just to contradict the majority.

This nation is now IC-ly known as the Teutonic Reich.

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Winpheala
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Founded: Aug 19, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Winpheala » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:13 am

The Greater Aryan Race wrote:Hate to be frank about this but dead is dead. Like it or not, Indonesia has a right to enforce it's own laws within it's sovereign borders. Australia's recalling of her ambassador won't bring the smugglers back and frankly, just comes across as being overtly petulant and pointless.

Indeed. Sanctions should have been made much earlier.

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Roderia
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Founded: Jan 21, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Roderia » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:15 am

To all those up in arms about the execution,
I am an Australian Nationalist, yet even I believe that Indonesia was well within their rights to do this. It is common knowledge in Australia that drug charges are punished by death in Indonesia. The Indonesian government has already given into Australian demands on several occasions to release those accused of drug charges, this time they decided to stop listening. The Australian government should not be wasting time and money to bail out idiot criminals who commit capital offences in foreign nations. Despite the fact that I don't really like Indonesia, I respect their right to execute those who commit crimes in their nation. If an Australian went to the United States and got themselves executed, no-one would care, we wouldn't be hearing about it, we wouldn't be recalling ambassadors. Anyone stupid enough to go to Indonesia and have anything to do with drugs, is clearly an idiot that deserves to be killed.

From an Avid, yet Rational, Nationalist.
I am Something-Teen living Somewhere in Canberra, Australia's capital. Social Justice Warriors will say that I am "Straight White Cis Male Scum". Not stupid people will say that I am a "Fascist Arsehole". My friends and family will say that I am "A little extreme and callous sometimes".
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Cabana
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Founded: May 21, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Cabana » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:15 am

Apparently the Brazilian guy killed was a bipolar paranoid sczhiophrenic who didn't know he was going to be killed until he was being led to the range.
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The Greater Aryan Race
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Founded: Mar 21, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby The Greater Aryan Race » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:17 am

Winpheala wrote:
The Greater Aryan Race wrote:Hate to be frank about this but dead is dead. Like it or not, Indonesia has a right to enforce it's own laws within it's sovereign borders. Australia's recalling of her ambassador won't bring the smugglers back and frankly, just comes across as being overtly petulant and pointless.

Indeed. Sanctions should have been made much earlier.

I respectfully disagree, Australia has no right to impose sanctions simply because "wahhh they shot our citizens wahhhh!!111!"
Imperium Sidhicum wrote:So, uh... Is this another one of those threads where everyone is supposed to feel outraged and circle-jerk in agreement of how injust and terrible the described incident is?

Because if it is, I'm probably going to say something mean and contrary just to contradict the majority.

This nation is now IC-ly known as the Teutonic Reich.

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Roderia
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Founded: Jan 21, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Roderia » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:19 am

The Greater Aryan Race wrote:
Winpheala wrote:Indeed. Sanctions should have been made much earlier.

I respectfully disagree, Australia has no right to impose sanctions simply because "wahhh they shot our citizens wahhhh!!111!"

Agreed, we'd to the same to them if we had the death penalty. If you don't want to deal with the punishment, don't do the crime.
I am Something-Teen living Somewhere in Canberra, Australia's capital. Social Justice Warriors will say that I am "Straight White Cis Male Scum". Not stupid people will say that I am a "Fascist Arsehole". My friends and family will say that I am "A little extreme and callous sometimes".
Pro: Capital Punishment, Gun Control, Equality, Corporations under the State, Fascism
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This nation does represent my beliefs and opinions. Deal with it.
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Winpheala
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Postby Winpheala » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:28 am

The Greater Aryan Race wrote:
Winpheala wrote:Indeed. Sanctions should have been made much earlier.

I respectfully disagree, Australia has no right to impose sanctions simply because "wahhh they shot our citizens wahhhh!!111!"

They have every right. It's their trade, and their citizens, after all.
Roderia wrote:
The Greater Aryan Race wrote:I respectfully disagree, Australia has no right to impose sanctions simply because "wahhh they shot our citizens wahhhh!!111!"

Agreed, we'd to the same to them if we had the death penalty. If you don't want to deal with the punishment, don't do the crime.

But we don't.

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Kenzinia
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Posts: 592
Founded: Dec 20, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Kenzinia » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:29 am

Dain II Ironfoot wrote:Their own decision, though i can't feel sorry for those executed one bit. They know they law over there so its they knew the risk they took, i'm glad they are treated like every other person and have been executed.

Roderia wrote:To all those up in arms about the execution,
I am an Australian Nationalist, yet even I believe that Indonesia was well within their rights to do this. It is common knowledge in Australia that drug charges are punished by death in Indonesia. The Indonesian government has already given into Australian demands on several occasions to release those accused of drug charges, this time they decided to stop listening. The Australian government should not be wasting time and money to bail out idiot criminals who commit capital offences in foreign nations. Despite the fact that I don't really like Indonesia, I respect their right to execute those who commit crimes in their nation. If an Australian went to the United States and got themselves executed, no-one would care, we wouldn't be hearing about it, we wouldn't be recalling ambassadors. Anyone stupid enough to go to Indonesia and have anything to do with drugs, is clearly an idiot that deserves to be killed.

From an Avid, yet Rational, Nationalist.

Roderia wrote:
The Greater Aryan Race wrote:I respectfully disagree, Australia has no right to impose sanctions simply because "wahhh they shot our citizens wahhhh!!111!"

Agreed, we'd to the same to them if we had the death penalty. If you don't want to deal with the punishment, don't do the crime.

:clap: :bow:
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My political compass
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The Greater Aryan Race
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Founded: Mar 21, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby The Greater Aryan Race » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:35 am

Winpheala wrote:They have every right. It's their trade, and their citizens, after all.

No they don't. Ever heard of this thing called the right to sovereignty? Indonesia is entitled to that too you know.
Last edited by The Greater Aryan Race on Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Imperium Sidhicum wrote:So, uh... Is this another one of those threads where everyone is supposed to feel outraged and circle-jerk in agreement of how injust and terrible the described incident is?

Because if it is, I'm probably going to say something mean and contrary just to contradict the majority.

This nation is now IC-ly known as the Teutonic Reich.

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New Genoa
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Posts: 1106
Founded: Antiquity
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby New Genoa » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:39 am

The Greater Aryan Race wrote:
Winpheala wrote:They have every right. It's their trade, and their citizens, after all.

No they don't. Ever heard of this thing called the right to sovereignty? Indonesia is entitled to that too you know.

How does Australia recalling their ambassador affect Indonesia's right to sovereignty?
Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?

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Winpheala
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Founded: Aug 19, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Winpheala » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:42 am

The Greater Aryan Race wrote:
Winpheala wrote:They have every right. It's their trade, and their citizens, after all.

No they don't. Ever heard of this thing called the right to sovereignty? Indonesia is entitled to that too you know.

I'm not sure how placing sanctions affects sovereignty. :roll: My point was, as Australian citizens, the government should have done more before they were killed. E.g. Instead of tipping off Indonesian authorities, they could have arrested them when they got back to Australia.

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The Greater Aryan Race
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Founded: Mar 21, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby The Greater Aryan Race » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:42 am

New Genoa wrote:
The Greater Aryan Race wrote:No they don't. Ever heard of this thing called the right to sovereignty? Indonesia is entitled to that too you know.

How does Australia recalling their ambassador affect Indonesia's right to sovereignty?

I'm referring to Winpheala's desire to have Australia slap sanctions on Indonesia rather than simply recalling her ambassador.
Imperium Sidhicum wrote:So, uh... Is this another one of those threads where everyone is supposed to feel outraged and circle-jerk in agreement of how injust and terrible the described incident is?

Because if it is, I'm probably going to say something mean and contrary just to contradict the majority.

This nation is now IC-ly known as the Teutonic Reich.

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Winpheala
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Founded: Aug 19, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Winpheala » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:47 am

The Greater Aryan Race wrote:
New Genoa wrote:How does Australia recalling their ambassador affect Indonesia's right to sovereignty?

I'm referring to Winpheala's desire to have Australia slap sanctions on Indonesia rather than simply recalling her ambassador.

See previous post.

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The Greater Aryan Race
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Founded: Mar 21, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby The Greater Aryan Race » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:48 am

Winpheala wrote:
The Greater Aryan Race wrote:No they don't. Ever heard of this thing called the right to sovereignty? Indonesia is entitled to that too you know.

I'm not sure how placing sanctions affects sovereignty. :roll:

Because by placing sanctions Australia would basically be saying "We don't like some of your laws and who cares if you're an independent state with your own jurisdictional rights, we're just gonna wreck your economy because you upset us.". And that effectively means Indonesia cannot implement and enforce her laws without fear of interference from certain neighboring countries.

Winpheala wrote:My point was, as Australian citizens, the government should have done more before they were killed. E.g. Instead of tipping off Indonesian authorities, they could have arrested them when they got back to Australia.

Err why shouldn't the AFP have tipped off the Indonesian authorities? What if the Bali 9 weren't smuggling drugs out of Indonesia but instead peddling them back there?
Imperium Sidhicum wrote:So, uh... Is this another one of those threads where everyone is supposed to feel outraged and circle-jerk in agreement of how injust and terrible the described incident is?

Because if it is, I'm probably going to say something mean and contrary just to contradict the majority.

This nation is now IC-ly known as the Teutonic Reich.

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Winpheala
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Postby Winpheala » Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:01 am

The Greater Aryan Race wrote:
Winpheala wrote:I'm not sure how placing sanctions affects sovereignty. :roll:

Because by placing sanctions Australia would basically be saying "We don't like some of your laws and who cares if you're an independent state with your own jurisdictional rights, we're just gonna wreck your economy because you upset us.". And that effectively means Indonesia cannot implement and enforce her laws without fear of interference from certain neighboring countries.

Winpheala wrote:My point was, as Australian citizens, the government should have done more before they were killed. E.g. Instead of tipping off Indonesian authorities, they could have arrested them when they got back to Australia.

Err why shouldn't the AFP have tipped off the Indonesian authorities? What if the Bali 9 weren't smuggling drugs out of Indonesia but instead peddling them back there?

Nope. Still not counted as a violation of sovereignty. It's not interference if you depend on one's help and they later choose to not help you.

A country has a duty to protect it's citizens- by tipping them off, they were essentially them to death. I'm not going to get into the whole drugs and death penalty argument here.

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Roderia
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Postby Roderia » Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:06 am

Winpheala wrote:
The Greater Aryan Race wrote:No they don't. Ever heard of this thing called the right to sovereignty? Indonesia is entitled to that too you know.

...My point was, as Australian citizens, the government should have done more before they were killed. E.g. Instead of tipping off Indonesian authorities, they could have arrested them when they got back to Australia.

That would be intentionally deceptive, withholding information of a crime taking place in their nation? That is what you want? Well maybe if a mass murderer comes from Indonesia over here, then the Indonesian Authorities may choose not to tip off the Australian Authorities. In addition, The Australian Government has no responsibility to Australian citizens in Indonesia, you know why? BECAUSE THEY ARE OUTSIDE OF AUSTRALIA!
I am Something-Teen living Somewhere in Canberra, Australia's capital. Social Justice Warriors will say that I am "Straight White Cis Male Scum". Not stupid people will say that I am a "Fascist Arsehole". My friends and family will say that I am "A little extreme and callous sometimes".
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Lyrian Oligarchic Royal Empire
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Founded: Apr 07, 2015
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Postby Lyrian Oligarchic Royal Empire » Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:08 am

Roderia wrote:
Winpheala wrote:...My point was, as Australian citizens, the government should have done more before they were killed. E.g. Instead of tipping off Indonesian authorities, they could have arrested them when they got back to Australia.

That would be intentionally deceptive, withholding information of a crime taking place in their nation? That is what you want? Well maybe if a mass murderer comes from Indonesia over here, then the Indonesian Authorities may choose not to tip off the Australian Authorities. In addition, The Australian Government has no responsibility to Australian citizens in Indonesia, you know why? BECAUSE THEY ARE OUTSIDE OF AUSTRALIA!

Uhm, that's not true at all.

Australia owes full faith to Australians abroad. Citizenship has both rights and responsibilities for both parties.

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Roderia
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Founded: Jan 21, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Roderia » Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:10 am

Winpheala wrote:
The Greater Aryan Race wrote:Because by placing sanctions Australia would basically be saying "We don't like some of your laws and who cares if you're an independent state with your own jurisdictional rights, we're just gonna wreck your economy because you upset us.". And that effectively means Indonesia cannot implement and enforce her laws without fear of interference from certain neighboring countries.


Err why shouldn't the AFP have tipped off the Indonesian authorities? What if the Bali 9 weren't smuggling drugs out of Indonesia but instead peddling them back there?

Nope. Still not counted as a violation of sovereignty. It's not interference if you depend on one's help and they later choose to not help you.

A country has a duty to protect it's citizens- by tipping them off, they were essentially them to death. I'm not going to get into the whole drugs and death penalty argument here.

It is an attack on Indonesia's government to place sanctions, it is saying that we do not respect their right to lead their own nation, if Indonesia invaded Papua New Guinea, then we would have a reason to impose sanctions. But simply for executing people that they have every right to kill, it is completely insane.
I am Something-Teen living Somewhere in Canberra, Australia's capital. Social Justice Warriors will say that I am "Straight White Cis Male Scum". Not stupid people will say that I am a "Fascist Arsehole". My friends and family will say that I am "A little extreme and callous sometimes".
Pro: Capital Punishment, Gun Control, Equality, Corporations under the State, Fascism
Anti: Democracy, Social Justice, Feminism, Hate Groups, Tony Abbott, Free Market, Libertarianism, Communism

This nation does represent my beliefs and opinions. Deal with it.
Self-Proclaimed Last Non-Yandere in The Anti Democracy League
Tech-Level: PMT.
99% of people will copy this into their sig, if you are not a sheep, then don't.

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The Greater Aryan Race
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Founded: Mar 21, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby The Greater Aryan Race » Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:11 am

Winpheala wrote:Nope. Still not counted as a violation of sovereignty. It's not interference if you depend on one's help and they later choose to not help you.

Err yes it is. You don't like what your neighbour is doing in his house (whether it's morally right or not is another matter) so you decide to punish him by cutting his electricity supply. You're still interfering in HIS domestic affairs.

And Jesus stop making this out to be a "Poor Indonesia depends on Australia for help". Australia relies on Indonesia's help for a lot things too, such as keeping those boat refugees at bay.
Imperium Sidhicum wrote:So, uh... Is this another one of those threads where everyone is supposed to feel outraged and circle-jerk in agreement of how injust and terrible the described incident is?

Because if it is, I'm probably going to say something mean and contrary just to contradict the majority.

This nation is now IC-ly known as the Teutonic Reich.

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Roderia
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Founded: Jan 21, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Roderia » Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:12 am

Lyrian Oligarchic Royal Empire wrote:
Roderia wrote:That would be intentionally deceptive, withholding information of a crime taking place in their nation? That is what you want? Well maybe if a mass murderer comes from Indonesia over here, then the Indonesian Authorities may choose not to tip off the Australian Authorities. In addition, The Australian Government has no responsibility to Australian citizens in Indonesia, you know why? BECAUSE THEY ARE OUTSIDE OF AUSTRALIA!

Uhm, that's not true at all.

Australia owes full faith to Australians abroad. Citizenship has both rights and responsibilities for both parties.

What? So Australian Citizens should be subjected only to Australian law wherever they go? What fucking fantasy world are all of you people living in? This isn't how the world works, this isn't how the world should work. Trying to defend criminals in another nation, is saying to Indonesia that we don't think that they deserve the right to have their own Justice System.
I am Something-Teen living Somewhere in Canberra, Australia's capital. Social Justice Warriors will say that I am "Straight White Cis Male Scum". Not stupid people will say that I am a "Fascist Arsehole". My friends and family will say that I am "A little extreme and callous sometimes".
Pro: Capital Punishment, Gun Control, Equality, Corporations under the State, Fascism
Anti: Democracy, Social Justice, Feminism, Hate Groups, Tony Abbott, Free Market, Libertarianism, Communism

This nation does represent my beliefs and opinions. Deal with it.
Self-Proclaimed Last Non-Yandere in The Anti Democracy League
Tech-Level: PMT.
99% of people will copy this into their sig, if you are not a sheep, then don't.

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