Bernie Sanders 2016!

[Atlanticatia]

I think Warren is more a symbol of quintessential New Deal American liberalism, whereas Bernie is an actual democratic socialist (or old school social democracy perhaps). For example in the WW2-era, FDR and Clement Attlee did a lot of similar things and had similar ideas but had different ideologies and goals.

Warren is more about regulating banks and the economy, expanding Social Security, empowering collective bargaining, taxing the wealthy, opposing NAFTA-like trade deals etc. I think Bernie is, obviously, interested in all of those things, but he's also probably interested in social ownership, while also fundamentally criticizing capitalism. A lot of overlap between strong New Deal liberalism.

I haven't seen anything to suggest that Bernie Sanders is an actual Democratic Socialist. As in, he calls himself one obviously, but from my understanding he actually means Social Democracy, and simply makes the American mistake that Social Democracy/Mixed Capitalism=Democratic Socialism. He's said before that his idea of "Socialism" would be a society resembling Sweden. So I really think he's just a typical Social Democrat who believes in a mixed economy, and is using a very loose definition of the word "Socialist". I've never seen him really say that he wants to abolish Capitalism, end wage Labour, etc.

From a foreigners eyes, Warren just comes off as a social Liberal who seems left wing in comparison to the new democrats/blue dogs of the Democratic party, where as Sanders is a Social Democrat who would fit nicely into any European Labour party.

See the link I posted, where he said he agreed with the ideals of Noam Chomsky.

IMO he seems like an old school social democrat, i.e. reformist but looking to eventually abolish capitalism.

[Valloria]

I sincerely doubt he'll win.

That's probably true. But having him, at the very least, make his message heard on a national platform, in contrast to someone like Hillary Clinton, is a good thing.

lol Bernie vs. Hillary's top campaign contributors.

One of Bernie's contributers is called "UNITE HERE." LOL

[Second Blazing]

Let's elect someone born after 1970, not someone in their 70s.

[Tyrandel]

I always think of Bernie Madoff when I read Bernie Sanders' name.

I always think of Deion Sanders, which is even more odd.

I usually think of KFC's Colonel Sanders.

[Dejanic]

I haven't seen anything to suggest that Bernie Sanders is an actual Democratic Socialist. As in, he calls himself one obviously, but from my understanding he actually means Social Democracy, and simply makes the American mistake that Social Democracy/Mixed Capitalism=Democratic Socialism. He's said before that his idea of "Socialism" would be a society resembling Sweden. So I really think he's just a typical Social Democrat who believes in a mixed economy, and is using a very loose definition of the word "Socialist". I've never seen him really say that he wants to abolish Capitalism, end wage Labour, etc.

From a foreigners eyes, Warren just comes off as a social Liberal who seems left wing in comparison to the new democrats/blue dogs of the Democratic party, where as Sanders is a Social Democrat who would fit nicely into any European Labour party.

See the link I posted, where he said he agreed with the ideals of Noam Chomsky.

IMO he seems like an old school social democrat, i.e. reformist but looking to eventually abolish capitalism.

Noam Chomsky is extremely moderate for an "Anarchist" though, most people in the Anarchist community call him an "Anarcho Liberal" because he really doesn't speak much specifics.

Now, I think using that question as evidence for him being a full on Socialist is jumping the gun a bit, I mean he say's in his answer that he supports co-ops, but that doesn't mean he's a full on Democratic Socialist, it might just mean he's a Social Democrat who believes that voluntary co-ops are good for people and good for the economy.

I do agree that he comes off as a bit of an old school Social Democrat though, in that he sees Socialism as a very long term aim to be achieved gradually and voluntarily.

[The Marcher States]

I commend Bernie for taking the leap. He spoke at my school a few weeks ago and I got to have a few words with him, but he was really cryptic about running.

[Dejanic]

I commend Bernie for taking the leap. He spoke at my school a few weeks ago and I got to have a few words with him, but he was really cryptic about running.

The problem is, even if he managed to somehow win the Presidency, he'd struggle to get much progressive legislation past the house/senate. Americas political system is so screwed.

[Atlanticatia]

See the link I posted, where he said he agreed with the ideals of Noam Chomsky.

IMO he seems like an old school social democrat, i.e. reformist but looking to eventually abolish capitalism.

Noam Chomsky is extremely moderate for an "Anarchist" though, most people in the Anarchist community call him an "Anarcho Liberal" because he really doesn't speak much specifics.

Now, I think using that question as evidence for him being a full on Socialist is jumping the gun a bit, I mean he say's in his answer that he supports co-ops, but that doesn't mean he's a full on Democratic Socialist, it might just mean he's a Social Democrat who believes that voluntary co-ops are good for people and good for the economy.

I do agree that he comes off as a bit of an old school Social Democrat though, in that he sees Socialism as a very long term aim to be achieved gradually and voluntarily.

Well, I mean I don't think he's 'far left' or anything. But I'd say he's "left wing" versus center-left. But I'd consider Elizabeth Warren center-left, not left-wing.

If I had to plot Bernie on the political compass for economics I'd probably say (-5) while for Elizabeth Warren I'd say (-2). Something like that.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

No chance. Hillary's gonna get the nomination. I suppose she's the lesser of two evils, but I have a problem with condoning any type of evil.

Sanders would definitely be my favorite, least evil choice though.

[Dejanic]

Noam Chomsky is extremely moderate for an "Anarchist" though, most people in the Anarchist community call him an "Anarcho Liberal" because he really doesn't speak much specifics.

Now, I think using that question as evidence for him being a full on Socialist is jumping the gun a bit, I mean he say's in his answer that he supports co-ops, but that doesn't mean he's a full on Democratic Socialist, it might just mean he's a Social Democrat who believes that voluntary co-ops are good for people and good for the economy.

I do agree that he comes off as a bit of an old school Social Democrat though, in that he sees Socialism as a very long term aim to be achieved gradually and voluntarily.

Well, I mean I don't think he's 'far left' or anything. But I'd say he's "left wing" versus center-left. But I'd consider Elizabeth Warren center-left, not left-wing.

If I had to plot Bernie on the political compass for economics I'd probably say (-5) while for Elizabeth Warren I'd say (-2). Something like that.

What's Obama then, +4?

[Prussia-Steinbach]

I commend Bernie for taking the leap. He spoke at my school a few weeks ago and I got to have a few words with him, but he was really cryptic about running.

The problem is, even if he managed to somehow win the Presidency, he'd struggle to get much progressive legislation past the house/senate. Americas political system is so screwed.

True. It probably wouldn't change a damn thing, except that he might veto ultra-conservative legislation.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Well, I mean I don't think he's 'far left' or anything. But I'd say he's "left wing" versus center-left. But I'd consider Elizabeth Warren center-left, not left-wing.

If I had to plot Bernie on the political compass for economics I'd probably say (-5) while for Elizabeth Warren I'd say (-2). Something like that.

What's Obama then, +4?

Yes...? At least.

[Kiribati-Tarawa]

Please no

[Atlanticatia]

Well, I mean I don't think he's 'far left' or anything. But I'd say he's "left wing" versus center-left. But I'd consider Elizabeth Warren center-left, not left-wing.

If I had to plot Bernie on the political compass for economics I'd probably say (-5) while for Elizabeth Warren I'd say (-2). Something like that.

What's Obama then, +4?

Probably. 2012 Obama is +4 but 2008 Obama was probably around +1 or +2.

Mostly because anyone who is the strongest cheerleader for the TPP is not going to be considered on the left side of the spectrum, like ever.

[Dejanic]

Does anyone outside of foaming Republican quasi-fascists on the one hand, and dedicated Obama fan boys who frequently post on "Democratic underground" on the other, actually think Obama is anywhere near the Left? He isn't even a Centrist.

[Lalaki]

I thought Lalaki was a "New Democrat", why is he/she supporting Bernie?

I often support policies that align with the New Democrats for the sake of pragmatism. Seldom have I explicitly supported single-payer health care or federalizing the university system as I know these beliefs will never gain traction (even if it is what I believe internally). Instead, I endorse the PPACA and free community college tuition. These policies have potential.

But primaries aren't the generals. While I would unequivocally back Clinton in 2016, I would rather see Bernie Sanders take the helm.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Does anyone outside of foaming Republican quasi-fascists on the one hand, and dedicated Obama fan boys who frequently post on "Democratic underground" on the other, actually think Obama is anywhere near the Left? He isn't even a Centrist.

Firmly right-wing. Agreed.

[Atlanticatia]

Does anyone outside of foaming Republican quasi-fascists on the one hand, and dedicated Obama fan boys who frequently post on "Democratic underground" on the other, actually think Obama is anywhere near the Left? He isn't even a Centrist.

I think Obama may have started out as progressive then moved rightward during national politics and the Presidency. 2004 Obama and 2008 Obama are quite different from 2012 Obama or Obama now.

There is also the social issues aspect, as he is quite socially liberal so people are probably excited over that.

I'd consider him center-right. But center to center-left awhile ago.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Let's elect someone born after 1970, not someone in their 70s.

Marco Rubio was born in 1971. Be careful what you wish for.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Does anyone outside of foaming Republican quasi-fascists on the one hand, and dedicated Obama fan boys who frequently post on "Democratic underground" on the other, actually think Obama is anywhere near the Left? He isn't even a Centrist.

I think Obama may have started out as progressive then moved rightward during national politics and the Presidency. 2004 Obama and 2008 Obama are quite different from 2012 Obama or Obama now.

There is also the social issues aspect, as he is quite socially liberal so people are probably excited over that.

Community organizer Obama might have been inwardly centrist/centre-left. Obama in politics has been firmly centre-right/right.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Does anyone outside of foaming Republican quasi-fascists on the one hand, and dedicated Obama fan boys who frequently post on "Democratic underground" on the other, actually think Obama is anywhere near the Left? He isn't even a Centrist.

I think Obama may have started out as progressive then moved rightward during national politics and the Presidency. 2004 Obama and 2008 Obama are quite different from 2012 Obama or Obama now.

There is also the social issues aspect, as he is quite socially liberal so people are probably excited over that.

I'd consider him center-right. But center to center-left awhile ago.

I agree with this assessment.

[ImperialistSalvia]

On the offhand chance Sanders gets out of the primaries (which I hope he will) I would seriously consider voting for him.

[Dejanic]

Does anyone outside of foaming Republican quasi-fascists on the one hand, and dedicated Obama fan boys who frequently post on "Democratic underground" on the other, actually think Obama is anywhere near the Left? He isn't even a Centrist.

I think Obama may have started out as progressive then moved rightward during national politics and the Presidency. 2004 Obama and 2008 Obama are quite different from 2012 Obama or Obama now.

There is also the social issues aspect, as he is quite socially liberal so people are probably excited over that.

I'd consider him center-right. But center to center-left awhile ago.

Pre 2008 Obama was certainly more progressive, judging from the little I've read up on him. 2008 Obama was a Centrist at best, though considering the USA had just had 8 years of a far-right Cowboy in charge, I understand why Obama appeared to be on the left.

His Social Liberalism is kind of exaggerated tbh, he was anti gay marriage for ages until he "changed his mind", he's been weak on immigration reform, he's continued neo-con foreign policy, has increased drone strikes, surveillance, etc.

He's less Conservative than the GOP, that's it really.

[Lalaki]

Does anyone outside of foaming Republican quasi-fascists on the one hand, and dedicated Obama fan boys who frequently post on "Democratic underground" on the other, actually think Obama is anywhere near the Left? He isn't even a Centrist.

I think Obama may have started out as progressive then moved rightward during national politics and the Presidency. 2004 Obama and 2008 Obama are quite different from 2012 Obama or Obama now.

There is also the social issues aspect, as he is quite socially liberal so people are probably excited over that.

I'd consider him center-right. But center to center-left awhile ago.

What else could he have done?

Obama signed into law comprehensive health care reform and financial regulations during the first two years of his term. Those passed with virtually no GOP votes and many Democratic dissenters. Thanks to him the uninsured rate has dropped from 18 percent to 11.9 percent, and is still decreasing. We have rules that Wall Street has to abide by (something Romney and Republicans promised to repeal in 2012). And now he wants free community college tuition and universal child care.

He's best classified as a solid centrist, because of his extension of tax cuts and support for the TPP.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

I think Obama may have started out as progressive then moved rightward during national politics and the Presidency. 2004 Obama and 2008 Obama are quite different from 2012 Obama or Obama now.

There is also the social issues aspect, as he is quite socially liberal so people are probably excited over that.

I'd consider him center-right. But center to center-left awhile ago.

Pre 2008 Obama was certainly more progressive, judging from the little I've read up on him. 2008 Obama was a Centrist at best, though considering the USA had just had 8 years of a far-right Cowboy in charge, I understand why Obama appeared to be on the left.

His Social Liberalism is kind of exaggerated tbh, he was anti gay marriage for ages until he "changed his mind", he's been weak on immigration reform, he's continued neo-con foreign policy, has increased drone strikes, surveillance, etc.

He's less Conservative than the GOP, that's it really.

He also can't even commit to cannabis decriminalization.