Baltimore Calmer; 6 Officers Indicted

[Washington Resistance Army]

It's really serious now; they cancelled the Orioles game.

That's a good thing, Baseball is a blight on our species

[Ifreann]

Do they? Are the riots still on-going? Can the police not handle them?

Sounds like things still are, albeit I don't have the scanner up ATM.

So then what makes it sound like they are? Someone posting pictures from gods only know when?

And no, the police evidently can never handle it. Hence the mass looting and whatnot.

There are myriad other crimes the police fail to prevent all the time. What about this exactly requires the National Guard?

[New Skaaneland]

Baseball bats have other uses aswell.

[Pope Joan]

It's really serious now; they cancelled the Orioles game.

That's a good thing, Baseball is a blight on our species

The solution is to move the games to the Nationals stadium in Washington DC.

Place the blight in the nation's capital.

(I think you need to watch some good movies; Field of Dreams, or The Natural.)

[Patridam]

The Guard really needs to come in and make all these fucking morons stop.

Do they? Are the riots still on-going? Can the police not handle them?

15 officers have been injured, two in critical condition. Four officers have been carjacked from their cruisers. I'd say they can't handle them.

[Revanchism]

Do they? Are the riots still on-going? Can the police not handle them?

15 officers have been injured, two in critical condition. Four officers have been carjacked from their cruisers. I'd say they can't handle them.

Maybe next time they won't kill a man. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Mavorpen]

The report wasn't to tell the citizens what they already knew. The point was to express that the federal government acknowledges the issue. And acknowledgement of an issue is the very first step to solving an issue. What part of this do you not get?

The part where the federal government hasn't introduced any steps to try and resolve it.

I can't help but notice that you really aren't even addressing the argument in question. You've been slowly shifting the goal posts to something along the lines of "riots lead to national positive change."

Feel free to show me that you aren't doing this but I can't see how you aren't because this point doesn't make any sense within the context of Ferguson. It has, again, only been a few months after the events. It takes time for the Federal to find the best course of action to take when dealing with something like Ferguson.

It's all very well and saying "yes, something's wrong", but there's been no indication since then that the government is actually taking this seriously.

Then that's a matter of you not paying attention, which appears to be an intentional thing

Come the election, it might become an election issue but again, why should anyone expect anything from the federal government given their previous responses to previous police brutality cases.

Again, you've yet to demonstrate that their previous responses have been as terrible as you make it out to be. I'll again point out that you've been shifting the goal posts now for a while. No one is expecting nor has claimed that riots about a local situation can solve things on the national level. The argument is that local riots have resulted in positive change, and that is at the local level.

You're joking right? Do you sincerely believe the government had the manpower and resources to launch a full scale investigation of every city in the country and fix all police brutality problems? The government aren't genies. This is the real world.

This coming from someone that thinks a government report saying what everyone else already knows is "the first step to solving an issue".

If you're going to use tu quoque, you should have an actual argument backing up why it isn't fallacious. To be more explicit, I want you to clearly explain why acknowledging something is NOT the first step to addressing it. I'm genuinely interested in this because I do not see at all how one can solve a problem without first acknowledging there is one in the first place.

You keep repeating this but failing to explain how acknowledging a problem is not a positive step.

Because actions speak louder than words.

This isn't an argument.

I don't consider something positive unless the government, be it federal or state, or even municipal, does something to address these issues.

Except Yumyumsuppertime has already given you examples of this. And again, if you're expecting Ferguson to magically fix itself overnight then the problem is your unrealistic expectations.

You can say "I am aware of the problem", and that's fine. But it's just words. It doesn't have any meaning unless you do something about it.

And again, things HAVE been done when the acknowledgement of problems with police forces have been made. Your problem is that you have chosen to ignore then and slowly shift the goal post to pretend that the argument is about something it never was about.

I've already addressed what Yumyumsuppertime said. It's a couple or so pages back.

You haven't addressed them. You've shifted the goal posts to pretend the examples he gave served a purpose they weren't meant to. The purpose of his examples were to demonstrate the federal government acknowledging police brutality and then doing something on the national scale about it. Again, to expect the federal government to sweep through all cities looking for police brutality cases is absurd (for many reasons including the fact that police are very much a state and local issue whereby the federal government doesn't have much sway UNLESS they have a good reason to get involved like, say, a riot). What the examples were for was to show that the riots resulted in positive change at the local level. You've perpetually ignored this in favor of arguing against something we have not argued for.

[New Skaaneland]

Do they? Are the riots still on-going? Can the police not handle them?

15 officers have been injured, two in critical condition. Four officers have been carjacked from their cruisers. I'd say they can't handle them.

Or maybe, just maybe there are times where the cops are in control generally although some things slip through? There will always be exceptions.

[Patridam]

15 officers have been injured, two in critical condition. Four officers have been carjacked from their cruisers. I'd say they can't handle them.

Maybe next time they won't kill a man. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ah, so all cops deserve to die because a few ones were assholes.

15 officers have been injured, two in critical condition. Four officers have been carjacked from their cruisers. I'd say they can't handle them.

Or maybe, just maybe there are times where the cops are in control generally although some things slip through? There will always be exceptions.

In the situation where numerous stores have been robbed, multiple buildings set ablaze, numerous police injured, other civilians injured by rioters, cars flipped and smashed... I'd say that police being in control is the exception rather than the rule.

[Ifreann]

Okay

You want me to post a bunch of pictures of cops beating the shit out of people for no reason?

Violence does not justify greater (and self-destructive) violence as some sort of 'revenge'. Do you agree with what these rioters are doing, lighting church projects on fire and sabotaging the fire department?

Sorry, are you operating under the impression that there is some support for these riots that could be stopped by enlightening people as to the violent and criminal nature of a riot?

---

Do they? Are the riots still on-going? Can the police not handle them?

15 officers have been injured, two in critical condition. Four officers have been carjacked from their cruisers. I'd say they can't handle them.

And what would the National Guard have done that the police haven't? What need is there for the National Guard right now?

[Quintium]

I believe that we're seeing a trend. Not a trend of police abuse, since that's happened in America ever since we had police forces, but rather in communities rising up and refusing to bow down to it anymore.

That's incredibly brave of them, burning down stores that would have employed them, attacking white liberals who think that their support is needed or wanted there, and injuring policemen who are trying to keep law and order and prevent these criminal scum from destroying the property of innocent men and women. If you ask me, the people who are rioting and looting are criminals who need to be put down. If the police would just shoot to kill during these riots, the crime rates in these areas would go down by more than half, because these 'protests' are like fly traps for all habitual criminals in a hundred-mile radius. Look at the rioters. Are they innocent young men resisting an oppressive police force, or would you find more felonies there than you'd find in a federal penitentiary?

In any case, I really liked one remark that I found on Twitter: the only place in Baltimore where these criminals won't go is the Career Center.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Sounds like things still are, albeit I don't have the scanner up ATM.

So then what makes it sound like they are? Someone posting pictures from gods only know when?

When I woke up a few hours ago I saw quite a few things live from Baltimore on Vice and whatnot and it still seemed like there was at least some rioting. And now that I'm listening to the scanner there is still indeed rioting going on.

And no, the police evidently can never handle it. Hence the mass looting and whatnot.

There are myriad other crimes the police fail to prevent all the time. What about this exactly requires the National Guard?

Those myriad other crimes don't involve mass looting, buildings being lit on fire, police cruisers being stolen and whatever else the morons in Baltimore are up to. The police obviously can't handle it, so send in the Guard.

[Patridam]

15 officers have been injured, two in critical condition. Four officers have been carjacked from their cruisers. I'd say they can't handle them.

And what would the National Guard have done that the police haven't? What need is there for the National Guard right now?

The Guardsmen wouldn't be getting injured and carjacked, at least, and could better protect the firemen from sabotage as they put out blazes started by rioters.

[Mushet]

Okay

You want me to post a bunch of pictures of cops beating the shit out of people for no reason?

Violence does not justify greater (and self-destructive) violence as some sort of 'revenge'. Do you agree with what these rioters are doing, lighting church projects on fire and sabotaging the fire department?

Not really, but I can understand it, and this is what happens when you push communities too far, it's not the most rational response but it's caused by a long pattern of irresponsible police actions with this last incident as the final straw, I'd take a more critical look at the police department. Most of the more recent riots I can think of are either about police abuse, or they're sports riots, which generally aren't as nasty.

[The Grim Reaper]

I believe that we're seeing a trend. Not a trend of police abuse, since that's happened in America ever since we had police forces, but rather in communities rising up and refusing to bow down to it anymore.

That's incredibly brave of them, burning down stores that would have employed them, attacking white liberals who think that their support is needed or wanted there, and injuring policemen who are trying to keep law and order and prevent these criminal scum from destroying the property of innocent men and women. If you ask me, the people who are rioting and looting are criminals who need to be put down. If the police would just shoot to kill during these riots, the crime rates in these areas would go down by more than half, because these 'protests' are like fly traps for all habitual criminals in a hundred-mile radius. Look at the rioters. Are they innocent young men resisting an oppressive police force, or would you find more felonies there than you'd find in a federal penitentiary?

In any case, I really liked one remark that I found on Twitter: the only place in Baltimore where these criminals won't go is the Career Center.

Boom, someone calling on police to just shoot them! It's almost as if they're /justified/ in believing that the members of the government meant to be affecting change is in fact actively working to keep them down and oppress them.

[Ifreann]

Maybe next time they won't kill a man. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ah, so all cops deserve to die because a few ones were assholes.

Or maybe, just maybe there are times where the cops are in control generally although some things slip through? There will always be exceptions.

In the situation where numerous stores have been robbed, multiple buildings set ablaze, numerous police injured, other civilians injured by rioters, cars flipped and smashed... I'd say that police being in control is the exception rather than the rule.

I guess all the stores that haven't been robbed, the buildings not set ablaze, the officers not injured, the civilians not injured, and the cars neither flipped nor smashed don't count.

[Patridam]

Violence does not justify greater (and self-destructive) violence as some sort of 'revenge'. Do you agree with what these rioters are doing, lighting church projects on fire and sabotaging the fire department?

Not really, but I can understand it, and this is what happens when you push communities too far, it's not the most rational response but it's caused by a long pattern of irresponsible police actions with this last incident as the final straw, I'd take a more critical look at the police department. Most of the more recent riots I can think of are either about police abuse, or they're sports riots, which generally aren't as nasty.

Burning down senior centers and looting business is not a rational response to police violence, it only hurts your future economic recovery chances in the inner city further delegitimizes your plight in the eyes of potentially sympathetic civilians and police. Yes, police abuse is definitely bad, but it neither justifies a riot nor is in any way decreased by one.

[Patridam]

Ah, so all cops deserve to die because a few ones were assholes.



In the situation where numerous stores have been robbed, multiple buildings set ablaze, numerous police injured, other civilians injured by rioters, cars flipped and smashed... I'd say that police being in control is the exception rather than the rule.

I guess all the stores that haven't been robbed, the buildings not set ablaze, the officers not injured, the civilians not injured, and the cars neither flipped nor smashed don't count.

So the rioters have to flip every single car, light every single store on fire, and injure every single officer before you deem the police as not having a hold on the situation?

[Farnhamia]

I believe that we're seeing a trend. Not a trend of police abuse, since that's happened in America ever since we had police forces, but rather in communities rising up and refusing to bow down to it anymore.

That's incredibly brave of them, burning down stores that would have employed them, attacking white liberals who think that their support is needed or wanted there, and injuring policemen who are trying to keep law and order and prevent these criminal scum from destroying the property of innocent men and women. If you ask me, the people who are rioting and looting are criminals who need to be put down. If the police would just shoot to kill during these riots, the crime rates in these areas would go down by more than half, because these 'protests' are like fly traps for all habitual criminals in a hundred-mile radius. Look at the rioters. Are they innocent young men resisting an oppressive police force, or would you find more felonies there than you'd find in a federal penitentiary?

In any case, I really liked one remark that I found on Twitter: the only place in Baltimore where these criminals won't go is the Career Center.

*** 7 day ban for trolling ***

[Mushet]

Not really, but I can understand it, and this is what happens when you push communities too far, it's not the most rational response but it's caused by a long pattern of irresponsible police actions with this last incident as the final straw, I'd take a more critical look at the police department. Most of the more recent riots I can think of are either about police abuse, or they're sports riots, which generally aren't as nasty.

Burning down senior centers and looting business is not a rational response to police violence, it only hurts your future economic recovery chances in the inner city further delegitimizes your plight in the eyes of potentially sympathetic civilians and police. Yes, police abuse is definitely bad, but it neither justifies a riot nor is in any way decreased by one.

And I said it was rational when? I said it was justified when? And riots can affect some positive change, it's just generally not a very good way to do it.

[Patridam]

Burning down senior centers and looting business is not a rational response to police violence, it only hurts your future economic recovery chances in the inner city further delegitimizes your plight in the eyes of potentially sympathetic civilians and police. Yes, police abuse is definitely bad, but it neither justifies a riot nor is in any way decreased by one.

And I said it was rational when? I said it was justified when? And riots can affect some positive change, it's just generally not a very good way to do it.

The entire nation's news networks were already looking into the "rough ride" incident, and are now all instead looking at the damage done by riots. If anything, these riots are going to hurt the chances of positive change by reinforcing stereotypes and giving psuedo-justification for police violence.

[Ifreann]

So then what makes it sound like they are? Someone posting pictures from gods only know when?

When I woke up a few hours ago I saw quite a few things live from Baltimore on Vice and whatnot and it still seemed like there was at least some rioting. And now that I'm listening to the scanner there is still indeed rioting going on.

And are the police not in control? Do they actually need the support of the National Guard?

There are myriad other crimes the police fail to prevent all the time. What about this exactly requires the National Guard?

Those myriad other crimes don't involve mass looting, buildings being lit on fire, police cruisers being stolen and whatever else the morons in Baltimore are up to. The police obviously can't handle it, so send in the Guard.

I doesn't seem obvious to me at all. From here it looks like people just want to escalate the levels of violence on the streets.

---

And what would the National Guard have done that the police haven't? What need is there for the National Guard right now?

The Guardsmen wouldn't be getting injured and carjacked, at least,

Do the National Guard have personal energy shields or something?

and could better protect the firemen from sabotage as they put out blazes started by rioters.

Someone said earlier in the thread that the fires were being fought. Do the fire fighters need protection now?

---

Not really, but I can understand it, and this is what happens when you push communities too far, it's not the most rational response but it's caused by a long pattern of irresponsible police actions with this last incident as the final straw, I'd take a more critical look at the police department. Most of the more recent riots I can think of are either about police abuse, or they're sports riots, which generally aren't as nasty.

Burning down senior centers and looting business is not a rational response to police violence, it only hurts your future economic recovery chances in the inner city further delegitimizes your plight in the eyes of potentially sympathetic civilians and police. Yes, police abuse is definitely bad, but it neither justifies a riot nor is in any way decreased by one.

Gosh, you'd swear they were just fucking angry or something like that.

[Mavorpen]

And I said it was rational when? I said it was justified when? And riots can affect some positive change, it's just generally not a very good way to do it.

The entire nation's news networks were already looking into the "rough ride" incident, and are now all instead looking at the damage done by riots. If anything, these riots are going to hurt the chances of positive change by reinforcing stereotypes and giving psuedo-justification for police violence.

Actually what reinforces stereotypes and giving psuedo-justification to that are posts like this who continue to insist that expression of anger and frustration, riots being one of the biggest one recognized by many leaders such as MLK Jr as being such, of black people has no legitimate basis.

[Mushet]

And I said it was rational when? I said it was justified when? And riots can affect some positive change, it's just generally not a very good way to do it.

The entire nation's news networks were already looking into the "rough ride" incident, and are now all instead looking at the damage done by riots. If anything, these riots are going to hurt the chances of positive change by reinforcing stereotypes and giving psuedo-justification for police violence.

Probably, that's why I said it was a bad way to do it.

[Patridam]

The Guardsmen wouldn't be getting injured and carjacked, at least,

Do the National Guard have personal energy shields or something?

They have quite a bit more protection from injury than police officers do, that's what the kevlar body armor, riot shields, and Plexiglas helmets are for. Not to mention the safety of an APC vs. a Crown Victoria.

and could better protect the firemen from sabotage as they put out blazes started by rioters.

Someone said earlier in the thread that the fires were being fought. Do the fire fighters need protection now?

Protestors have been cutting fire hoses. That not only hurts the effectiveness of their abilities, but it could possibly result in a firefighter getting trapped in a burning building with no means to clear a path out.

Burning down senior centers and looting business is not a rational response to police violence, it only hurts your future economic recovery chances in the inner city further delegitimizes your plight in the eyes of potentially sympathetic civilians and police. Yes, police abuse is definitely bad, but it neither justifies a riot nor is in any way decreased by one.

Gosh, you'd swear they were just fucking angry or something like that.

Being 'angry' doesn't excuse any of the moral depravity and sheer stupidity of this riot.