Baltimore Calmer; 6 Officers Indicted

[Mavorpen]

Do you have evidence that the rioting won't result in positive change?

Because going by the history of events like this, rioting is pretty damn effective. It's not the ideal solution but it has a pretty good track record.

Really? French riots haven't seemed to change much, as institutionalized racism, intergenerational poverty and massive amounts of crime don't seem to have changed for those who have to live that way.

Where did I say they always work?

[Scomagia]

If you want to protest, fine. I get that. I don't condone the actions of the officers involved in the Freddie Gray case either. But if you are going to protest, do it right. Get your legislators, get your religious leaders, your friends, everyone, and do it peacefully. The riots will cause more grief and sorrow than the officers who poorly handled the Freddie Gray case. They can burn Baltimore to the ground in the name of justice, but threatening law enforcement and the National Guardsmen who didn't have anything to do with the situation is plain ridiculous and an injustice.

I agree with you overall, though fuck the National Guardsmen. They're nothing more than attack dogs.

[Natapoc]

Americans who get more upset about a broken window than they do about the brutal execution of a person by the police are the problem.

Both are problems. If you are angry about something, you don't go around smashing up public property and the property of those who had nothing to do with it. What does that achieve?

Also, how the fuck does someone sever someone's head whilst in police custody?

I'm not fully convinced that a portion of the people smashing things and setting things on fire are not provocateurs anyway. But I'm really annoyed by people who would rather complain about property damage than about what seems to be brutal executions carried about by "law enforcement" with no oversight.

Remember there would be NO property destruction if police would have not killed someone.

But furthermore, and more importantly, if Americans had unanimously condemned the police killings as soon as they happened in the same way they are at this moment upset about the property destruction... There would have never been any property destruction to begin with.

[Ecaria]

If you want to protest, fine. I get that. I don't condone the actions of the officers involved in the Freddie Gray case either. But if you are going to protest, do it right. Get your legislators, get your religious leaders, your friends, everyone, and do it peacefully. The riots will cause more grief and sorrow than the officers who poorly handled the Freddie Gray case. They can burn Baltimore to the ground in the name of justice, but threatening law enforcement and the National Guardsmen who didn't have anything to do with the situation is plain ridiculous and an injustice.

I agree with you overall, though fuck the National Guardsmen. They're nothing more than attack dogs.

They serve a purpose and a whole city rioting, isn't that much of a bad reason to use them. PDs don't usually have the ability to handle it, not at first.

[Page]

If you want to protest, fine. I get that. I don't condone the actions of the officers involved in the Freddie Gray case either. But if you are going to protest, do it right. Get your legislators, get your religious leaders, your friends, everyone, and do it peacefully. The riots will cause more grief and sorrow than the officers who poorly handled the Freddie Gray case. They can burn Baltimore to the ground in the name of justice, but threatening law enforcement and the National Guardsmen who didn't have anything to do with the situation is plain ridiculous and an injustice.

I agree with you overall, though fuck the National Guardsmen. They're nothing more than attack dogs.

How dare you they put their lives on the line! Like with those hippies at Kent State who tried to murder them with flower power!

[Castille de Italia]

But it's not morally sound. That's what I'm getting at.

Oh of course it isn't. I'm merely saying that it not being morally sound is rather overshadowed by the corruption that enabled events that led to the rioting in the first place.

Right, right.

Recent riots though have ineffective. Look at Ferguson. All that came out of it was destroyed property and bloodshed. If it was effective, Baltimore wouldn't be a warzone right now.

[Page]

Baltimore reminds me on Subsaharan Africa these days.

You mean controlled by corrupt authorities who like to murder innocent people?

[Mavorpen]

Maybe you can stop acting like what we are saying is personally offensive, because I can guarantee the years you have spent here, have been pointless, if you ever wanted to convince someone else or inform others, rather than jerk off. Someone else has always done it better.

I do love how you think you've said something profound. First of all, my years here haven't been pointless. It's done wonders to change my viewpoints over time. Second, changing someone's viewpoint is never the result of a single person. I don't expect to do so by myself. It's always a team effort and I have contributed a good amount in certain topics. Not all, but some. As for someone else doing it better, you act like I've ever denied that. I haven't. I don't even consider myself anywhere near the top lines of debaters on this site.

Nice try though. I rate it a 6/10 for effort.

[LoveIra]

No, it is just that part of region was always unstable and where people are used to life in an unstable enviroment. Also, there is a lot etnich conflict.

I see where you're coming from but the comparison is a bit of a stretch.

I mean I have on one hand full understanding for them, thoose people have brought their habits from Africa into the New World so they are acting according to their instincts. But not only the rioters are doing that, also the police is behaving like that since all human kind is coming from Africa and have the same habits.

[Ecaria]

I'm not fully convinced that a portion of the people smashing things and setting things on fire are not provocateurs anyway. But I'm really annoyed by people who would rather complain about property damage than about what seems to be brutal executions carried about by "law enforcement" with no oversight.

Man the police must have a lot of people on their payroll if all those stores were broken into by provocateurs.

Remember there would be NO property destruction if police would have not killed someone.

This happening certainly won't stop it.

But furthermore, and more importantly, if Americans had unanimously condemned the police killings as soon as they happened in the same way they are at this moment upset about the property destruction... There would have never been any property destruction to begin with.

Sounds like an argument about police brutality not the riot - this is pretty unquestionably a good way to ruin your side's reputation.

[Mavorpen]

Oh of course it isn't. I'm merely saying that it not being morally sound is rather overshadowed by the corruption that enabled events that led to the rioting in the first place.

Right, right.

Recent riots though have ineffective. Look at Ferguson. All that came out of it was destroyed property and bloodshed. If it was effective, Baltimore wouldn't be a warzone right now.

What are you talking about? Ferguson was definitely effective. You do know that thanks to the events in Ferguson we got official government reports done that there was a history of racial discrimination, right?

[Costa Fierro]

Really? French riots haven't seemed to change much, as institutionalized racism, intergenerational poverty and massive amounts of crime don't seem to have changed for those who have to live that way.

Where did I say they always work?

You asked for evidence that riots don't bring about positive change and you also said it has a pretty good track record. France is an example of neither of those things. Don't try to shift the goalposts.

[Mavorpen]

Where did I say they always work?

You asked for evidence that riots don't bring about positive change and you also said it has a pretty good track record. France is an example of neither of those things. Don't try to shift the goalposts.

No.

Do you have evidence that the rioting won't result in positive change?

I said "won't," not "don't."

[Page]

I see where you're coming from but the comparison is a bit of a stretch.

I mean I have on one hand full understanding for them, thoose people have brought their habits from Africa into the New World so they are acting according to their instincts. But not only the rioters are doing that, also the police is behaving like that since all human kind is coming from Africa and have the same habits.

Heil, Fuhrer.

[LoveIra]

Are you German?

Nope (Srbin sam).

[Yumyumsuppertime]

There's a decades-long pattern of horrifying police abuse in Sub-Saharan Africa that eventually resulted in largely peaceful protests that were soon overshadowed by a smaller group of rioters and criminals using the chaos as cover?

No, it is just that part of region was always unstable and where people are used to life in an unstable enviroment. Also, there is a lot etnich conflict.

Ethnic. If you're going to be overtly racist about things, at least learn to spell the word.

Was Baltimore always unstable?

[Costa Fierro]

I said "won't," not "don't."

Either way, my point still stands. Rioting won't change the situation.

[Ecaria]

I do love how you think you've said something profound. First of all, my years here haven't been pointless. It's done wonders to change my viewpoints over time.

Been more or less the same since I saw you when I joined in 2011.

Second, changing someone's viewpoint is never the result of a single person.

No, but if I were to call you names and treat you like shit, it's fair to say you aren't open to changing your mind.

I don't expect to do so by myself. It's always a team effort and I have contributed a good amount in certain topics.

No you haven't. In every thread it has been someone like ASB who actually contributed a real analysis - those little quote snippets we both just did are never arguments with substance. They form 90% of your posts, the rest being 2-3 sentence ones. If you debated in real life like you did hear you would be thrown out of whatever establishment and the misfortune of housing you.

Not all, but some. As for someone else doing it better, you act like I've ever denied that. I haven't. I don't even consider myself anywhere near the top lines of debaters on this site.

A good way to approach that would be to stop treating other like shit every single time they disagree. Cite me one big argument you've had that ended amicably.

Nice try though. I rate it a 6/10 for effort.

This is the kind of shit I'm talking about. Everything above this was an actual argument, but you just couldn't resist this could you? Ruins the whole post.

[Castille de Italia]

Right, right.

Recent riots though have ineffective. Look at Ferguson. All that came out of it was destroyed property and bloodshed. If it was effective, Baltimore wouldn't be a warzone right now.

What are you talking about? Ferguson was definitely effective. You do know that thanks to the events in Ferguson we got official government reports done that there was a history of racial discrimination, right?

One report from the Justice Department found systemic racism within the ranks of the Ferguson Police Department. It didn't stop the Eric Garner incident from happening, it didn't stop the New York officers from getting murdered in cold blood in response to Ferguson, and it didn't stop Baltimore and the Freddie Gray incident now. I wouldn't call Ferguson effective.

[Empire of Narnia]

I've always fantasized about looting a city.

[Vandario]

honestly I want to say to the rioters that they simply should be gunned down, act like animals get treated as such, but thats just my anger speaking, not in a good mood about this shit, seems like every few weeks we have a fucking riot over something, and you know why? because we let them.

[Conservative Values]

Right, right.

Recent riots though have ineffective. Look at Ferguson. All that came out of it was destroyed property and bloodshed. If it was effective, Baltimore wouldn't be a warzone right now.

What are you talking about? Ferguson was definitely effective. You do know that thanks to the events in Ferguson we got official government reports done that there was a history of racial discrimination, right?

And permanently damaged the economy of the city. Anyone who thinks "should I move to Ferguson" for a generation is going to think "No." Breitbart reported that property values have plummeted since the riots. No one wants to be there, so the people who are there just get unlucky. Poverty is the problem, and this is two steps back for a possible step forward.

[Natapoc]

honestly I want to say to the rioters that they simply should be gunned down, act like animals get treated as such, but thats just my anger speaking, not in a good mood about this shit, seems like every few weeks we have a fucking riot over something

What do you think should happen to the officers who took Gray into custody and ended his life or the system of institutionalized racism that enabled it?

[Mavorpen]

I said "won't," not "don't."

Either way, my point still stands. Rioting won't change the situation.

I don't see how your point stands. You've given evidence that sometimes it doesn't work. Claiming it won't in this case requires a bit more than that.

I do love how you think you've said something profound. First of all, my years here haven't been pointless. It's done wonders to change my viewpoints over time.

Been more or less the same since I saw you when I joined in 2011.

Well yeah, I've already gathered you don't know anything about me.

Second, changing someone's viewpoint is never the result of a single person.

No, but if I were to call you names and treat you like shit, it's fair to say you aren't open to changing your mind.

Of course it's quite fair to assume that.

I don't expect to do so by myself. It's always a team effort and I have contributed a good amount in certain topics.

No you haven't. In every thread it has been someone like ASB who actually contributed a real analysis - those little quote snippets we both just did are never arguments with substance. They form 90% of your posts, the rest being 2-3 sentence ones. If you debated in real life like you did hear you would be thrown out of whatever establishment and the misfortune of housing you.

Wait you've gone through every single one of my posts? Have you counted up the number of posts and established this percentage?

Oh and I do debate the same in real life. No trouble as of yet, but plenty of changed opinions.

Not all, but some. As for someone else doing it better, you act like I've ever denied that. I haven't. I don't even consider myself anywhere near the top lines of debaters on this site.

A good way to approach that would be to stop treating other like shit every single time they disagree.

[/quote]
I don't. I treat arguments like shit. Unfortunately people take that personally.

Nice try though. I rate it a 6/10 for effort.

This is the kind of shit I'm talking about. Everything above this was an actual argument, but you just couldn't resist this could you? Ruins the whole post.

What? Nothing above this was an argument. It was you making shit up and not backing it up. But then again you can't. You haven't gone through every single one of my posts in NSG. You know that. But that didn't keep you from pulling numbers out of your ass.

And you said you were ending this. Why are you still here?

[Nazi Flower Power]

I have no problem with the peaceful demonstrations, but rioting and looting is not OK.

7-11 and McDonald's didn't kill this guy. What's the point of taking it out on them? If they stormed a police station or something, that would at least have some logic to it. Actually, that would make a big difference in my attitude toward the violence, if it was directly targeted at the police rather than just running around committing random crimes.