Baltimore Calmer; 6 Officers Indicted

[United Marxist Nations]

Huh, so out of the officers arrested, three were black (including the sergeant, who was in charge of everything, and the one with the most severe charge) one was hispanic, and two were white.

It's almost as it class (influenced by race, but still it's own thing) and police militarization/impunity have become a greater concern than white supremecy

Or that black people with a badge can hate black people in a way that makes white cops look like members of the Urban League.

It seems to me that class and race are now working in-tandem toward oppression. Class poverty helps further propel the racial issue.

[Jamzmania]

I'm sure you've heard of Ferguson, a town in the suburbs of St. Louis, Missouri.

Hopefully, unlike Ferguson, the DA doesn't deliberately sabotage his own case.

A statement which is debatable in itself.

[Mavorpen]

Really?

Where were the TV cameras during those months?

Where were the statements by the President?

Where was the national outcry for something to be done?

To say that the plight of these communities was ignored is completely false. We've been dumping money into these communities for years and it hasn't worked. That's because government can't solve all of their problems, only they can.

And these problems are what, specifically?

[Mavorpen]

Hopefully, unlike Ferguson, the DA doesn't deliberately sabotage his own case.

A statement which is debatable in itself.

Only if you didn't pay any attention to that case and the reactions of legal experts to it at all.

[Fartsniffage]

Really?

Where were the TV cameras during those months?

Where were the statements by the President?

Where was the national outcry for something to be done?

I'm sure you've heard of Ferguson, a town in the suburbs of St. Louis, Missouri.

I hadn't until the riots.

[Jamzmania]

To say that the plight of these communities was ignored is completely false. We've been dumping money into these communities for years and it hasn't worked. That's because government can't solve all of their problems, only they can.

And these problems are what, specifically?

The massive crime rate, destruction of the family, and poverty are notable.

[Mavorpen]

And these problems are what, specifically?

The massive crime rate, destruction of the family, and poverty are notable.

Now explain to me how these aren't problems the government should be solving.

[Jamzmania]

A statement which is debatable in itself.

Only if you didn't pay any attention to that case and the reactions of legal experts to it at all.

If those blips hadn't occurred, you'd have found something else to use to call the thing illegitimate. The truth is that many would never have accepted anything less than conviction, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Not at all.

What started that, again?

Oh, yeah: A number of controversial police-oriented deaths that led to riots.

Are you sure it would have been absolutely been impossible for these movements to have started if, instead of riots that actually actively damaged the reputation of the movement, it instead was a series of large ongoing protests and civil disobedience (which it actually was for much of the time, and still got major coverage)?

Yes, I am. It's easy for a peaceful demonstration to be ignored after the news cycle has passed. Even peaceful civil disobedience will simply cause reactions ranging from vague sympathy ("Well, they have a good point") to annoyance ("I have to get to my appointment, and they're blocking the roads"), and will soon pass from the public mind. Riots, however, have a way of inspiring immediate reactions, and keeping the public eye on a story for an extended period of time.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

A statement which is debatable in itself.

I have never seen it successfully debated.

[United Marxist Nations]

And these problems are what, specifically?

The massive crime rate, destruction of the family, and poverty are notable.

How do they go about solving poverty, as poverty causes the above two? After all, if they had the capital necessary to do that, then they wouldn't be impoverished in the first place.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Really?

Where were the TV cameras during those months?

Where were the statements by the President?

Where was the national outcry for something to be done?

I'm sure you've heard of Ferguson, a town in the suburbs of St. Louis, Missouri.

Yes.

The place where they rioted.

So the cameras were on the riot, which is my point.

[Mavorpen]

If those blips hadn't occurred, you'd have found something else to use to call the thing illegitimate.

Woah, you can see into alternate futures? Why aren't you sharing this ability with the rest of the world?

The truth is that many would never have accepted anything less than conviction, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

So am I to take this red herring to mean that you're backpedaling and that you really can't back up your claim that the case was mishandled?

[Jamzmania]

The massive crime rate, destruction of the family, and poverty are notable.

Now explain to me how these aren't problems the government should be solving.

The government can't go in and single-handedly fix the country's problems. The citizens have to do that. The government can provide an appropriate amount of support, but it can't act unilaterally.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Really?

Where were the TV cameras during those months?

Where were the statements by the President?

Where was the national outcry for something to be done?

To say that the plight of these communities was ignored is completely false. We've been dumping money into these communities for years and it hasn't worked. That's because government can't solve all of their problems, only they can.

"We" have?

That's nice, but I"m not sure what dumping money into communities has to do with combating police abuse, unless you're handing out "Please don't hit me, officer" bribe money.

[Mavorpen]

The government can't go in and single-handedly fix the country's problems.

That's not what's being argued.

The citizens have to do that. The government can provide an appropriate amount of support, but it can't act unilaterally.

Again, you didn't answer my question. Why are these things that the government shouldn't be solving?

[United Marxist Nations]

Are you sure it would have been absolutely been impossible for these movements to have started if, instead of riots that actually actively damaged the reputation of the movement, it instead was a series of large ongoing protests and civil disobedience (which it actually was for much of the time, and still got major coverage)?

Yes, I am. It's easy for a peaceful demonstration to be ignored after the news cycle has passed. Even peaceful civil disobedience will simply cause reactions ranging from vague sympathy ("Well, they have a good point") to annoyance ("I have to get to my appointment, and they're blocking the roads"), and will soon pass from the public mind. Riots, however, have a way of inspiring immediate reactions, and keeping the public eye on a story for an extended period of time.

^ Exactly. Programs of non-violent civil disobedience are far less effective than they are cracked-up to be, largely because the problems they cause for those they are against are inconveniences at most.

[Jamzmania]

If those blips hadn't occurred, you'd have found something else to use to call the thing illegitimate.

Woah, you can see into alternate futures? Why aren't you sharing this ability with the rest of the world?

The truth is that many would never have accepted anything less than conviction, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

So am I to take this red herring to mean that you're backpedaling and that you really can't back up your claim that the case was mishandled?

I don't know what you mean by backpedaling. The case was not mishandled to the point where you can just say, "He'da been indicted if it wasn't for the evil conspiracy of that conniving DA!" We've all seen the evidence and it's been pretty apparent that there was never enough to convict, let alone indict.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Or that black people with a badge can hate black people in a way that makes white cops look like members of the Urban League.

It seems to me that class and race are now working in-tandem toward oppression. Class poverty helps further propel the racial issue.

As you're likely aware, that's been the case for well over a century.

[Hydesland]

Yes, I am.

I disagree, on the strongest possible terms.

It's easy for a peaceful demonstration to be ignored after the news cycle has passed.

It's also easy for riots to be ignored, after the news cycle has passed, nobody was even talking about Ferguson anymore.

Even peaceful civil disobedience will simply cause reactions ranging from vague sympathy ("Well, they have a good point") to annoyance ("I have to get to my appointment, and they're blocking the roads")

But not as much widespread condemnation.

Riots, however, have a way of inspiring immediate reactions

Usually negative.

Large, long protests can also inspire immediate reactions. Occupy protest wasn't a riot, even if it got messy at times, and it maintained attention for a long time.

[Jamzmania]

The government can't go in and single-handedly fix the country's problems.

That's not what's being argued.

The citizens have to do that. The government can provide an appropriate amount of support, but it can't act unilaterally.

Again, you didn't answer my question. Why are these things that the government shouldn't be solving?

Because they can't solve them. I did answer your question.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

And these problems are what, specifically?

The massive crime rate, destruction of the family, and poverty are notable.

There's also the police harassing, beating, and killing residents of these communities, which is what these riots were about.

[United Marxist Nations]

It seems to me that class and race are now working in-tandem toward oppression. Class poverty helps further propel the racial issue.

As you're likely aware, that's been the case for well over a century.

Yeah, the cycle is a pretty shit situation (shituation?) indeed.

[Mavorpen]

I don't know what you mean by backpedaling. The case was not mishandled to the point where you can just say, "He'da been indicted if it wasn't for the evil conspiracy of that conniving DA!"

It's a good thing that not I nor anyone here has said that then.

We've all seen the evidence and it's been pretty apparent that there was never enough to convict, let alone indict.

Please back this up with sources. I don't think you understand just how easy it is to get an indictment and how many experts would laugh at this opinion.

[Jamzmania]

The massive crime rate, destruction of the family, and poverty are notable.

There's also the police harassing, beating, and killing residents of these communities, which is what these riots were about.

None of which have substantial evidence to support that they are widespread problems.