Baltimore Calmer; 6 Officers Indicted

[Novus America]

It actually does more harm than good. The military has a much better history with these things than the local police. You are far more likely to have problems with the local police. The local police denying your rights is more likely than the military doing so.

The reason we have it is too protect the KKK. In the 1870s the military did great work protecting civil rights. But we could not have that when blacks needed suppressing by racist local officials. Posse comitatus was designed to suppress, not protect rights. I think it should be repealed, after all the military was successfully used to support police for 100 YEARS before it was passed. I am sorry, I cannot get down with the KKK protection act.

But yes it is still the law of the land.

Still under the insurrection act you can send in the 101st when conditions permit, as we did in little rock. In this case would not be necessary now as the Maryland National Guard has things under control.

Yes, because everyone wants the people responsible for Abu Gharib to be involved in something involving racial-cultural relations.

Good call.

I am not saying they are perfect. An those were untrained reservists, not professionals like the 101st. And those things will not happen again, the military punished and fired all those involved. The 101st as I have proven have done great things for civil rights. Would you make that same argument to the kids in Little Rock?

Oh and what would you rather have? Some humiliation? Or a "rough ride" and a broken neck? The military are not perfect, but in many cases batter than the police.

[Ragnarum]

Excuse double post.

Tell me about the fucking situation beforehand then. Go on. Then describe in detail as to why it is justified to vandalise random peoples property.

Honestly, I don't give a toss about the rest of the situation. I don't care how badly people feel they have been treated, take it out on those responsible and not people who have fuck all to do with it.

If you don't care about how people have been treated, or why they might be tempted to take such rash and destructive actions, then what would be the point of "telling (you) about the fucking situation beforehand"?

I WOULD care, if the people in question didn't start attacking other peoples property (who have no connection what so ever to the issue). As far as I am concerned there is no excuse for that. I wouldn't start attacking my high street and random peoples lives even if the government in power was teetering on extreme-right Nationalism and I was on the receiving end. I would not have allowed this situation to develop in the first place, but if anyone behaves like this, fuck them completely.
I suppose you could say there is no point in telling me what has happened beforehand, because I would never justify actions like this against random people.

[Novus America]

Things in America are not that bad, we are one of the best countries in the world. I would not want to live anywhere else. We are not Pakistan. Yes things need fixing, and we could be much better. But we have a mostly great system with some serious problems. Fixing the problems, not tearing down the system (thereby creating more problems) is the solution.

And people are not revolting. Just a few hundred criminals are being criminals.

The system needs to be torn down, burned, and stomped until it stops breathing.

Yeah, right. As a military reserve officer and veteran, (and I have quite and arsenal) good luck.

[Lyrian Oligarchic Royal Empire]

Yes, because everyone wants the people responsible for Abu Gharib to be involved in something involving racial-cultural relations.

Good call.

I am not saying they are perfect. An those were untrained reservists, not professionals like the 101st. And those things will not happen again, the military punished and fired all those involved. The 101st as I have proven have done great things for civil rights. Would you make that same argument to the kids in Little Rock?

Oh and what would you rather have? Some humiliation? Or a "rough ride" and a broken neck? The military are not perfect, but in many cases batter than the police.

"Some humiliation"? Are you even aware of what they were doing there? You seem to be missing the other cases, like the guy going out and killing an entire family, just because. Or Guantanamo's never-ending string of abuses.

The US military tries hard, but it is no bastion of integrity and honor on the race-culture front.

[Novus America]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryla ... html#page=

We had this same issue with the California thread. You are looking a things from Los Angles, I am looking at things from Glen Burnie. The national media always over sensationalizes things.

Thank you for the source. It does look like things were improving. Unfortunately, it seems that the damage was already done, and it was too little, too late.

Does that help you understand my prospective? And why I am so pissed off at the riots? The riots will make things worse, not better.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Excuse double post.

If you don't care about how people have been treated, or why they might be tempted to take such rash and destructive actions, then what would be the point of "telling (you) about the fucking situation beforehand"?

I WOULD care, if the people in question didn't start attacking other peoples property (who have no connection what so ever to the issue). As far as I am concerned there is no excuse for that. I wouldn't start attacking my high street and random peoples lives even if the government in power was teetering on extreme-right Nationalism and I was on the receiving end.
I suppose you could say there is no point in telling me what has happened beforehand, because I would never justify actions like this against random people.

It is very easy to say what you would or would not do in a given hypothetical situation. It is a different matter when you live in that situation day in and day out. Riots are a nearly inevitable outcome of consistent abuse and maltreatment at the hands of agents of the state, especially in economically depressed areas. History shows this. You can rail against it all that you want, but if you don't want to see this destruction, then turn your attention to the people who brought about these conditions in the first place.

[Rotia]

I support the demonstrations.
I don't support looting and vandalizing stores, houses and private properties of people who have nothing to do with the demonstrations.

[Tarleria]

Way to make yourselves look like sane, negotiable people.

[Mavorpen]

Way to make yourselves look like sane, negotiable people.

Why yes, the demonstrations are indeed doing that.

It's a shame that they aren't being focused on because ratings.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Thank you for the source. It does look like things were improving. Unfortunately, it seems that the damage was already done, and it was too little, too late.

Does that help you understand my prospective? And why I am so pissed off at the riots? The riots will make things worse, not better.

I do understand where you're coming from. Absolutely. I even sympathize with it to a degree. However, I'm not convinced that the riots will make things worse and not better in the long run, though I certainly understand why you would see it that way.

I think that we may be at that wonderful impasse so rarely reached on NSG, in which we understand where the other person is coming from, but remain skeptical of certain conclusions that can't be immediately proven, and therefore simply choose to respect the other person's intelligence and good intentions while disagreeing on certain matters that will be resolved in their own way over the course of time.

[Novus America]

I am not saying they are perfect. An those were untrained reservists, not professionals like the 101st. And those things will not happen again, the military punished and fired all those involved. The 101st as I have proven have done great things for civil rights. Would you make that same argument to the kids in Little Rock?

Oh and what would you rather have? Some humiliation? Or a "rough ride" and a broken neck? The military are not perfect, but in many cases batter than the police.

"Some humiliation"? Are you even aware of what they were doing there? You seem to be missing the other cases, like the guy going out and killing an entire family, just because. Or Guantanamo's never-ending string of abuses.

The US military tries hard, but it is no bastion of integrity and honor on the race-culture front.

Fine, a lot of humiliation or a broken neck? Your choice.

Again it is not perfect. I simply said it is often better than the police, something you have not been able to dispute. For every one thing the military has done wrong local police have done 100.

Also the military has held people accountable. The police sometimes do, but have a much worse history of accountability and proper punishment.

The US military tries hard, but it is no bastion of integrity and honor on the race-culture front

I agree 100%. That statement does nothing to undermine my point.

[Ragnarum]

Excuse double post.



I WOULD care, if the people in question didn't start attacking other peoples property (who have no connection what so ever to the issue). As far as I am concerned there is no excuse for that. I wouldn't start attacking my high street and random peoples lives even if the government in power was teetering on extreme-right Nationalism and I was on the receiving end.
I suppose you could say there is no point in telling me what has happened beforehand, because I would never justify actions like this against random people.

It is very easy to say what you would or would not do in a given hypothetical situation. It is a different matter when you live in that situation day in and day out. Riots are a nearly inevitable outcome of consistent abuse and maltreatment at the hands of agents of the state, especially in economically depressed areas. History shows this. You can rail against it all that you want, but if you don't want to see this destruction, then turn your attention to the people who brought about these conditions in the first place.

Don't get me wrong, I think the system here is pretty fucked up and should have been changed long ago.
I am against rioting full stop.

It is a different matter when you live in that situation day in and day out.

Great, now learn to direct your anger properly.

I support the demonstrations.
I don't support looting and vandalizing stores, houses and private properties of people who have nothing to do with the demonstrations.

There you go. I could have said that.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

The system needs to be torn down, burned, and stomped until it stops breathing.

And replaced with what exactly?

You really need to ask?

[Mavorpen]

And replaced with what exactly?

You really need to ask?

Battleworld?

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Way to make yourselves look like sane, negotiable people.

The union of the Crips, Bloods, and Nation of Islam to protect neighborhoods has definitely indicated that, yes.

[Ragnarum]

And replaced with what exactly?

You really need to ask?

I don't. And nope, not happening.

[Lyrian Oligarchic Royal Empire]

"Some humiliation"? Are you even aware of what they were doing there? You seem to be missing the other cases, like the guy going out and killing an entire family, just because. Or Guantanamo's never-ending string of abuses.

The US military tries hard, but it is no bastion of integrity and honor on the race-culture front.

Fine, a lot of humiliation or a broken neck? Your choice.

Again it is not perfect. I simply said it is often better than the police, something you have not been able to dispute. For every one thing the military has done wrong local police have done 100.

Also the military has held people accountable. The police sometimes do, but have a much worse history of accountability and proper punishment.

The US military tries hard, but it is no bastion of integrity and honor on the race-culture front

I agree 100%. That statement does nothing to undermine my point.

Really? The commanders of Abu Gharib weren't held accountable. The low-level NCOs were.

They hooked people to car batteries, and forced them to stand (thus connected) blindfolded above pools of water.

They waterboarded people.

If you can't see past your ideological blindness, you don't stand a chance at being taken seriously.

[Novus America]

Does that help you understand my prospective? And why I am so pissed off at the riots? The riots will make things worse, not better.

I do understand where you're coming from. Absolutely. I even sympathize with it to a degree. However, I'm not convinced that the riots will make things worse and not better in the long run, though I certainly understand why you would see it that way.

I think that we may be at that wonderful impasse so rarely reached on NSG, in which we understand where the other person is coming from, but remain skeptical of certain conclusions that can't be immediately proven, and therefore simply choose to respect the other person's intelligence and good intentions while disagreeing on certain matters that will be resolved in their own way over the course of time.

I concur. I know we have gotten heated with each other at times (not surprising considering these are emotional topics), but it is great we can have a reasonable discussion in which we both learn something. Oh and thank you.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Yes, because everyone wants the people responsible for Abu Gharib to be involved in something involving racial-cultural relations.

Good call.

I am not saying they are perfect. An those were untrained reservists, not professionals like the 101st. And those things will not happen again, the military punished and fired all those involved. The 101st as I have proven have done great things for civil rights. Would you make that same argument to the kids in Little Rock?

Oh and what would you rather have? Some humiliation? Or a "rough ride" and a broken neck? The military are not perfect, but in many cases batter than the police.

This is because the military doesn't get involved in domestic law enforcement (due to the aforementioned posse comitatus act). You're literally pointing to one positive incident from a half a century ago to justify this idea of yours that the military is somehow 'better' than police on this topic, whilst ignoring the military so rarely gets involved in the topic. It's like proclaiming that there are less excessive uses of force by police at Wendy's restaurants, and therefore they're the better fast-food chain. It's nonsensical.

One should also note that Abu Ghraib was carried out by regular Army personell, not reservists (perhaps you grew confused because one of the more famous higher-ranking individuals charged was a Reservist before rejoining active-duty for the Iraq war?)...not that such a distinction would matter since 'reservists' are decidedly NOT untrained bozos and literally posses the same training as their active-duty counterparts (going through such training being mandatory to join the reserve components of the US military, and many already being former members of those branches who posses such training already.

[Jamzmania]

Way to make yourselves look like sane, negotiable people.

The union of the Crips, Bloods, and Nation of Islam to protect neighborhoods has definitely indicated that, yes.

You're not referring to the same alliance that is meant to kill police, right?

[Blasveck]

I see you've skimmed my assertion about property.

For shame.

Good to know you've proved my point. You may feel pissed, but you have absolutely no understanding of how these people feel, nor are you expected to. But if you don't understand, please, at least sit down and try to learn something.

No, I didn't, actually. I find it kind of disgusting that you would justify attacks on property owned by people completely unrelated to these issues at hand.

Good to know you've proved my point

I haven't proved any of your points simply by disagreeing with you.

but you have absolutely no understanding of how these people feel

Trust me, I can imagine. Problem is, I don't care how they feel if they behave like this towards random civilians.

But if you don't understand, please, at least sit down and try to learn something.

Oh, go ahead. 'Educate' me.

Oh please. If you're going to be attacking a point I didn't even make, put some effort into it. Nowhere have I stated that these riots are justified, I'm simply explaining the situation that caused these riots in the first place.

But given your responses to other posters like Yumyum, you have no desire to understand, only a stubborn refusal to care about anything going on here. Imaging what these people have gone through on a daily basis is far from actually living it. Hypotheticals are easy, after all.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

The union of the Crips, Bloods, and Nation of Islam to protect neighborhoods has definitely indicated that, yes.

You're not referring to the same alliance that is meant to kill police, right?

Give me one single fucking source they're out there killing cops.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

It is very easy to say what you would or would not do in a given hypothetical situation. It is a different matter when you live in that situation day in and day out. Riots are a nearly inevitable outcome of consistent abuse and maltreatment at the hands of agents of the state, especially in economically depressed areas. History shows this. You can rail against it all that you want, but if you don't want to see this destruction, then turn your attention to the people who brought about these conditions in the first place.

Don't get me wrong, I think the system here is pretty fucked up and should have been changed long ago.
I am against rioting full stop.

It is a different matter when you live in that situation day in and day out.

Great, now learn to direct your anger properly.

I support the demonstrations.
I don't support looting and vandalizing stores, houses and private properties of people who have nothing to do with the demonstrations.

There you go. I could have said that.

Whether you agree with the rioters' actions or not is irrelevant. Riots are an inevitable outcome of certain patterns of behavior on the part of the state against people who are powerless and people who see themselves as powerless. Again, if you want to direct your anger properly, direct it towards the people who let it get this far instead of the people who are screaming in anger, fear, frustration, and rage right now. Many of the rioters will likely face severe legal consequences. It's the ones who brought about this environment who now need to answer some serious questions.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

I do understand where you're coming from. Absolutely. I even sympathize with it to a degree. However, I'm not convinced that the riots will make things worse and not better in the long run, though I certainly understand why you would see it that way.

I think that we may be at that wonderful impasse so rarely reached on NSG, in which we understand where the other person is coming from, but remain skeptical of certain conclusions that can't be immediately proven, and therefore simply choose to respect the other person's intelligence and good intentions while disagreeing on certain matters that will be resolved in their own way over the course of time.

I concur. I know we have gotten heated with each other at times (not surprising considering these are emotional topics), but it is great we can have a reasonable discussion in which we both learn something. Oh and thank you.

Thank you, as well.

[Washington Resistance Army]

And replaced with what exactly?

You really need to ask?

Well I have an idea, but I'm hoping it's nothing retarded so that's why I asked.