Will we be forced into a cashless society?

[Big Jim P]

I don't think it possible to see what was bought from store when paid with card (not credit card). I think it just possible to see how much money was spent.

I imagine that it would be easy to create such a program that tracks a card number, along with purchases, and then sends the info to the government. All you'd have to do then would be to make that program mandatory on card readers.
(I naturally distrust the government)

All thinking beings distrust the government to some extent. *nod*

[Kirav]

Speaking as someone who almost exclusively uses cash, I'm constantly amazed that we aren't in a near-cashless economy already. It would certainly be great for law-enforcement purposes, and I imagine that most businesses would prefer it for all of the consumer data it would generate for market research and promotional purposes.

Thankfully, however, I've only ever encountered two businesses that refused to accept cash (except for airlines, apartment buildings, and the like).

[Pope Joan]

Speaking as someone who almost exclusively uses cash, I'm constantly amazed that we aren't in a near-cashless economy already. It would certainly be great for law-enforcement purposes, and I imagine that most businesses would prefer it for all of the consumer data it would generate for market research and promotional purposes.

Thankfully, however, I've only ever encountered two businesses that refused to accept cash (except for airlines, apartment buildings, and the like).

Law enforcement would not like it, because they get to seize any cash they find during an investigation or when they are at the scene of an apparent crime. If the defendant is found not guilty, guess what? The cops still get to keep the cash.

[Ethel mermania]

Which is precisely why certain (illegal) businesses are cash-only.

It is also the reason I make certain purchases (legal of course) with cash. Some things are no one elses (especially the governments) business.

I don't think it possible to see what was bought from store when paid with card (not credit card). I think it just possible to see how much money was spent.

That would be incorrect.

[Big Jim P]

I don't think it possible to see what was bought from store when paid with card (not credit card). I think it just possible to see how much money was spent.

That would be incorrect.

Indeed. I really just bought my groceries at the gun shop. Honestly.

[Kaztropol]

I suppose there are savings for banks and governments, and potential profits for some companies, if we move to a cashless society. There may be benefits for society, but no doubt some people would be disadvantaged by such a move. I am sure people here can come up with a number of other benefits or problems. Personally I think it is inevitable that we move in that direction, and I suppose I would adjust to it without to much problem, though I would be slightly paranoid about the surveillance potential.

Not just surveillance that would be a potential issue.

I saw an article a short time ago about this topic:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... olish-cash

The proponents of abolishing cash say that as long as cash exists, it prevents negative interest rates. Because, rather than see their savings diminish with a -6% rate every year, people would just withdraw it as hard currency and keep it in a vault.
So they advocate abolishing or heavily taxing the use of cash.

[Big Jim P]

I suppose there are savings for banks and governments, and potential profits for some companies, if we move to a cashless society. There may be benefits for society, but no doubt some people would be disadvantaged by such a move. I am sure people here can come up with a number of other benefits or problems. Personally I think it is inevitable that we move in that direction, and I suppose I would adjust to it without to much problem, though I would be slightly paranoid about the surveillance potential.

Not just surveillance that would be a potential issue.

I saw an article a short time ago about this topic:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... olish-cash

The proponents of abolishing cash say that as long as cash exists, it prevents negative interest rates. Because, rather than see their savings diminish with a -6% rate every year, people would just withdraw it as hard currency and keep it in a vault.
So they advocate abolishing or heavily taxing the use of cash.

There is NOTHING good associated with Bloomberg.

[Kaztropol]

In the UK anyway, deposits made by people at a bank, are guaranteed, up to a limit. I forget offhand what that limit is, but it's something on the order of magnitude of £40,000 or thereabouts.
If that bank folds, then, the Government will compensate the affected people.
There are economists, who believe that that guarantee should be removed, because it restricts banks abilities to do things.

In such a situation, with a cashless society, then when, not if, but when a bank folds, there are people, mostly poorer people, because £40k is not all that much, who would lose absolutely everything they had ever worked for, and who would have no ability to buy food at all, the next day. You wouldn't even be able to try to make a run on the bank.

Recently, a bank systems failure meant people were unable to use their bank accounts for several weeks. Weeks.

Oh noes, some people keep their life savings in hard cash in a strongbox in a safe in their house, instead of a bank, because they don't trust banks. And that's a "problem", to the banks and the economists.

Well, maybe if banks were trustable institutions, where people feel that their money would be safe, then that wouldn't be the case, would it ?

[Dakini]

Who's forcing? Being able to pay with plastic or direct deposit is so much nicer than having to pay with cash everywhere.

[Ifreann]

I don't think it possible to see what was bought from store when paid with card (not credit card). I think it just possible to see how much money was spent.

I imagine that it would be easy to create such a program that tracks a card number, along with purchases, and then sends the info to the government. All you'd have to do then would be to make that program mandatory on card readers.
(I naturally distrust the government)

Card readers, in my experience, simply don't have any information about what one is purchasing. Similarly, the till which does have a record of your purchase does not have any information about your card.

[Gauthier]

Somebody's afraid the NSA is going to learn about their porn DVD habit?

[Mysterious Stranger]

They won't even do currency reform. I doubt they're gonna abolish cash.

[Big Jim P]

They won't even do currency reform. I doubt they're gonna abolish cash.

Here in the States there is no need for currency reform.

[Big Jim P]

I imagine that it would be easy to create such a program that tracks a card number, along with purchases, and then sends the info to the government. All you'd have to do then would be to make that program mandatory on card readers.
(I naturally distrust the government)

Card readers, in my experience, simply don't have any information about what one is purchasing. Similarly, the till which does have a record of your purchase does not have any information about your card.

The two could be correlated however.

[Kaztropol]

Who's forcing?

Economists who think large negative interest rates are a good idea to stimulate the economy.

Somebody's afraid the NSA is going to learn about their porn DVD habit?

Everything you buy, everywhere you spend money. That data being used to form customer profiles, which are sold on to commercial interests. So you can receive 'personalised' advertising on smart billboards everywhere you go, on everything you look at with your smart glasses, on every website you visit.

Benign intrusion is still intrusion.

[Ethel mermania]

I imagine that it would be easy to create such a program that tracks a card number, along with purchases, and then sends the info to the government. All you'd have to do then would be to make that program mandatory on card readers.
(I naturally distrust the government)

Card readers, in my experience, simply don't have any information about what one is purchasing. Similarly, the till which does have a record of your purchase does not have any information about your card.

In the states that is not correct, purchases are corrolated with card purchases. A run of the stores dB will show who bought what on a credit or debit card purchase.

[Ifreann]

Card readers, in my experience, simply don't have any information about what one is purchasing. Similarly, the till which does have a record of your purchase does not have any information about your card.

The two could be correlated however.

Yes, they could, by examining paper receipts. Not something one could do easily with a computer program. Again, in my experience.

[Olivaero]

It's all fun and games until the network falls over and some poor IT guy is having a coronary because he is being held responsible for every transaction not going though in the business.

[Empire of Narnia]

In my bank account I have a large amount.

[McNernia]

We should watch this business. I think that perhaps...one needs to look at perhaps Science Fiction. The buiness of Star Wars credits and the Star Trek Latinum.

[Ifreann]

In my bank account I have a large amount.

Hey look, it's an Internet Rich Guy!

[Willamette Valley]

I don't think it possible to see what was bought from store when paid with card (not credit card). I think it just possible to see how much money was spent.

I imagine that it would be easy to create such a program that tracks a card number, along with purchases, and then sends the info to the government. All you'd have to do then would be to make that program mandatory on card readers.
(I naturally distrust the government)

If the government wants that kind of information they'd probably just subpoena your bank records

[Big Jim P]

I imagine that it would be easy to create such a program that tracks a card number, along with purchases, and then sends the info to the government. All you'd have to do then would be to make that program mandatory on card readers.
(I naturally distrust the government)

If the government wants that kind of information they'd probably just subpoena your bank records

Which is why I use cash for sensitive purchases.

[Ifreann]

I imagine that it would be easy to create such a program that tracks a card number, along with purchases, and then sends the info to the government. All you'd have to do then would be to make that program mandatory on card readers.
(I naturally distrust the government)

If the government wants that kind of information they'd probably just subpoena your bank records

Your bank records wouldn't have that information. They'd have the amount you spent, and where, but not what you spent it on.

[Big Jim P]

The two could be correlated however.

Yes, they could, by examining paper receipts. Not something one could do easily with a computer program. Again, in my experience.

See Memrmanias post directly above yours.

Also, you would be correlating two electronic databases: the card readers and the inventory. Not especially hard to do.