War On Homelessness Or War On The Homeless?

[The Carlisle]

So literally worse than Hitler?

And it's not even summer!

Well it has been warming up. The cold weather before makes them really sensitive to heat nowadays.

[Gauthier]

Sounds hitleresque.

I imagine the glorious Aryan master race will be left to die if their arms fall off, too.

Disarmament.

[Sociobiology]

Utah found the solution to homelessness.

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/lntv3q/the-homeless-homed

https://jobs.utah.gov/housing/scso/documents/homelessness2014.pdf

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Increase services for the mentally ill.

In most cases homeless folks have mental illness's Or incapacities. For the most part, these folks eitherdon't want to be treated, or they can't get the treatment they need. HomelessNess is not a lifestyle choice, and I think the op is treating it as it is.

I have no idea where I could have given you the impression that that was my opinion. Or were you talking about the cities with these laws?

[Ifreann]

Utah found the solution to homelessness.

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/lntv3q/the-homeless-homed

https://jobs.utah.gov/housing/scso/documents/homelessness2014.pdf

But giving homes to the homeless will ruin everything! People need to suffer when they're poor, otherwise how will we know that God loves them less than us?

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Utah found the solution to homelessness.

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/lntv3q/the-homeless-homed

https://jobs.utah.gov/housing/scso/documents/homelessness2014.pdf

I mentioned that in passing in the OP, but yes, it bears a more significant discussion. Simply giving houses to homeless people actually works, if one's goal is to provide shelter at a cost that is lower than the cost of people remaining on the streets. However, as I've repeatedly stated, we don't care about "what works" as much as what we feel people deserve. We're terrified by the idea that someone, somewhere, might get something for free that we had to work for. We don't use these exact words, but we are actually, as a people, more comfortable with the idea of people suffering untold miseries and dying of exposure than we are with simply saying "Here's a baseline for existence, and we'll provide it. If you want something beyond that, it's up to you."

[Ethel mermania]

Increase services for the mentally ill.

In most cases homeless folks have mental illness's Or incapacities. For the most part, these folks eitherdon't want to be treated, or they can't get the treatment they need. HomelessNess is not a lifestyle choice, and I think the op is treating it as it is.

I have no idea where I could have given you the impression that that was my opinion. Or were you talking about the cities with these laws?

It's the way I read the op, that these people want to live in their cars and see that as a positive choice.

I don't know how I feel about the specific laws, I think as a society we fail our mentally disabled population miserably, and my experience tells me most of the homeless I run into fall into this category.

Now for the few who do make it a lifestyle choice, I think we as a society owe them nothing.

[Arana]

As far as panhandling laws go, I can't say I oppose them. I know in my town, for the last few years we've had problems with panhandlers that weren't even homeless. One time, my mom saw a woman give a 'homeless veteran' money. Then she saw the 'homeless veteran' get in his rather nice looking car and drive away.

That being said, all the other laws are complete bullshit, and make me ashamed to be an American. So much for the land of equality, but then equality is MarxoFascist Liberal Left wing bullshit (believe it or not, I actually read that somewhere in a serious article about religion), so who needs it?

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

It's the way I read the op, that these people want to live in their cars and see that as a positive choice.

I don't know how I feel about the specific laws, I think as a society we fail our mentally disabled population miserably, and my experience tells me most of the homeless I run into fall into this category.

Now for the few who do make it a lifestyle choice, I think we as a society owe them nothing.

You may want to work on your reading comprehension. Nothing in the OP implies that.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

As far as panhandling laws go, I can't say I oppose them. I know in my town, for the last few years we've had problems with panhandlers that weren't even homeless. One time, my mom saw a woman give a 'homeless veteran' money. Then she saw the 'homeless veteran' get in his rather nice looking car and drive away.

That being said, all the other laws are complete bullshit, and make me ashamed to be an American. So much for the land of equality, but then equality is MarxoFascist Liberal Left wing bullshit (believe it or not, I actually read that somewhere in a serious article about religion), so who needs it?

Weirdly enough, I've heard that story before about a panhandler getting up at the end of the day and getting into a nice car and driving off. The people who tell this are always the same people who saw a poor person ahead of them in line buying lobster and prime rib with food stamps while yakking away on the most modern smartphone, and they tell it in the same tones that others use when they claim to have been on shift that night in the hospital when Richard Gere was allegedly brought in with a gerbil stuffed into an uncomfortable place.

[Gauthier]

As far as panhandling laws go, I can't say I oppose them. I know in my town, for the last few years we've had problems with panhandlers that weren't even homeless. One time, my mom saw a woman give a 'homeless veteran' money. Then she saw the 'homeless veteran' get in his rather nice looking car and drive away.

That being said, all the other laws are complete bullshit, and make me ashamed to be an American. So much for the land of equality, but then equality is MarxoFascist Liberal Left wing bullshit (believe it or not, I actually read that somewhere in a serious article about religion), so who needs it?

Weirdly enough, I've heard that story before about a panhandler getting up at the end of the day and getting into a nice car and driving off. The people who tell this are always the same people who saw a poor person ahead of them in line buying lobster and prime rib with food stamps while yakking away on the most modern smartphone, and they tell it in the same tones that others use when they claim to have been on shift that night in the hospital when Richard Gere was allegedly brought in with a gerbil stuffed into an uncomfortable place.

It's obviously a crime against humanity for poor people to eat anything more wholesome than processed shit. *nod*

[Ifreann]

I have no idea where I could have given you the impression that that was my opinion. Or were you talking about the cities with these laws?

It's the way I read the op, that these people want to live in their cars and see that as a positive choice.

I don't know how I feel about the specific laws, I think as a society we fail our mentally disabled population miserably, and my experience tells me most of the homeless I run into fall into this category.

Now for the few who do make it a lifestyle choice, I think we as a society owe them nothing.

I imagine that in a country the size of the US there are a few people who prefer to live without a permanent residence. Or perhaps you mean something else by "the few who do make it a lifestyle choice".

[Vedastia]

Utah's situation has proved that it's cheaper to house the homeless in relatively comfortable accommodations than it is to make their existence a crime. However, that might have worked because of the relatively low housing prices in the state, even in Salt Lake. It might not work in LA, where the most decrepit gangland shack will go for at least $1 million.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Utah's situation has proved that it's cheaper to house the homeless in relatively comfortable accommodations than it is to make their existence a crime. However, that might have worked because of the relatively low housing prices in the state, even in Salt Lake. It might not work in LA, where the most decrepit gangland shack will go for at least $1 million.

Mmm, that's definitely true, but I suspect that if we gave a shot at building studio-style condos en masse (imagine the jobs created!), we could make a huge dent in the situation.

[Ieperithem]

A nation of immigrants cannot give free electricity, housing, and other first world "rights" to anyone who asks and survive. You want to see what happens when you do that? Look at Sweden.

I already created a thread on this particular subject, but it still bears mentioning that the Los Angeles City Council is attempting to make it illegal to sleep in your car in Venice Beach CA. As my wife and I actually lived in her car when we first arrived in Venice (until it was towed), this one obviously hits close to home for me. They're attempting to do this in the face of their previous ban having been struck down by a federal appeals court.

That might screw over people trying to sleep off their drinks(causing more drunk driving related accidents), and the type of person who lives in their car is rarely any danger to public safety. I'd say it's the one viable point in the thread's OP.

In Manteca CA, they have severely limited the hours that a public park is open, shut off power to a gazebo in the park so that homeless people cannot charge their cell phones there, and have turned on the sprinklers at night to make it impossible to sleep on the property.

Oh, woe is them. They won't be able to spend public money on charging their iPhones. Perhaps they'll have to sell them and buy something boring, like food, clothes, or anything else that is of higher priority to someone truly in need than texting their "bae".

In Sarasota FL, they have removed the benches from public parks so that homeless people cannot use them to sleep on, and instituted a smoking ban at the parks that was openly targeted towards the homeless,

Oh, woe is them. They won't be able to give asthma to the children those parks are intended to serve. Perhaps they'll have to give up the repulsive habit and spend the hundreds of dollars they save on something that isn't an addictive drug, like food, clothes, or anything else that is of higher priority to someone truly in need than giving oneself cancer.

In Miami FL and Dallas TX, the city councils created "No panhandling" zones, and in St. Petersburg FL, that ban covered the entire city. Minneapolis prohibits panhandling in certain areas, which you could make an argument for. In Oakland Park, FL, however, the mere act of giving "anything of value" to a panhandler is punishable by a fine or jail time, even if the person being given the money is selling the giver flowers or a newspaper.

So you're saying the government has no right to regulate someone's means of acquiring money?

In Anchorage AK and numerous other municipalities, anti-camping laws have been enacted that prohibit people from setting up any sort of shelter in a public area.

I'm not allowed to set up a goddamn tent in the middle of the street? Injustice, I say!

[Arana]

A nation of immigrants cannot give free electricity, housing, and other first world "rights" to anyone who asks and survive. You want to see what happens when you do that? Look at Sweden.

I already created a thread on this particular subject, but it still bears mentioning that the Los Angeles City Council is attempting to make it illegal to sleep in your car in Venice Beach CA. As my wife and I actually lived in her car when we first arrived in Venice (until it was towed), this one obviously hits close to home for me. They're attempting to do this in the face of their previous ban having been struck down by a federal appeals court.

That might screw over people trying to sleep off their drinks(causing more drunk driving related accidents), and the type of person who lives in their car is rarely any danger to public safety. I'd say it's the one viable point in the thread's OP.

In Manteca CA, they have severely limited the hours that a public park is open, shut off power to a gazebo in the park so that homeless people cannot charge their cell phones there, and have turned on the sprinklers at night to make it impossible to sleep on the property.

Oh, woe is them. They won't be able to spend public money on charging their iPhones. Perhaps they'll have to sell them and buy something boring, like food, clothes, or anything else that is of higher priority to someone truly in need than texting their "bae".

In Sarasota FL, they have removed the benches from public parks so that homeless people cannot use them to sleep on, and instituted a smoking ban at the parks that was openly targeted towards the homeless,

Oh, woe is them. They won't be able to give asthma to the children those parks are intended to serve. Perhaps they'll have to give up the repulsive habit and spend the hundreds of dollars they save on something that isn't an addictive drug, like food, clothes, or anything else that is of higher priority to someone truly in need than giving oneself cancer.

In Miami FL and Dallas TX, the city councils created "No panhandling" zones, and in St. Petersburg FL, that ban covered the entire city. Minneapolis prohibits panhandling in certain areas, which you could make an argument for. In Oakland Park, FL, however, the mere act of giving "anything of value" to a panhandler is punishable by a fine or jail time, even if the person being given the money is selling the giver flowers or a newspaper.

So you're saying the government has no right to regulate someone's means of acquiring money?

In Anchorage AK and numerous other municipalities, anti-camping laws have been enacted that prohibit people from setting up any sort of shelter in a public area.

I'm not allowed to set up a goddamn tent in the middle of the street? Injustice, I say!

Yeah, look how terrible things are in Sweden, the world's fifth happiest nation.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

A nation of immigrants cannot give free electricity, housing, and other first world "rights" to anyone who asks and survive. You want to see what happens when you do that? Look at Sweden.

I already created a thread on this particular subject, but it still bears mentioning that the Los Angeles City Council is attempting to make it illegal to sleep in your car in Venice Beach CA. As my wife and I actually lived in her car when we first arrived in Venice (until it was towed), this one obviously hits close to home for me. They're attempting to do this in the face of their previous ban having been struck down by a federal appeals court.

That might screw over people trying to sleep off their drinks(causing more drunk driving related accidents), and the type of person who lives in their car is rarely any danger to public safety. I'd say it's the one viable point in the thread's OP.

In Manteca CA, they have severely limited the hours that a public park is open, shut off power to a gazebo in the park so that homeless people cannot charge their cell phones there, and have turned on the sprinklers at night to make it impossible to sleep on the property.

Oh, woe is them. They won't be able to spend public money on charging their iPhones. Perhaps they'll have to sell them and buy something boring, like food, clothes, or anything else that is of higher priority to someone truly in need than texting their "bae".

Or looking for a job, or trying to find shelter for the night, or attempting to access basic services, or staying in touch with their families, or contacting their social workers or 12-step sponsors. Your assumption that phones are used purely for trivial reasons seems unfounded.

In Sarasota FL, they have removed the benches from public parks so that homeless people cannot use them to sleep on, and instituted a smoking ban at the parks that was openly targeted towards the homeless,

Oh, woe is them. They won't be able to give asthma to the children those parks are intended to serve. Perhaps they'll have to give up the repulsive habit and spend the hundreds of dollars they save on something that isn't an addictive drug, like food, clothes, or anything else that is of higher priority to someone truly in need than giving oneself cancer.

Benches. Public parks. And I don't care about smoking bans, but when they're only implemented to target a particular part of the population, it's troublesome.

In Miami FL and Dallas TX, the city councils created "No panhandling" zones, and in St. Petersburg FL, that ban covered the entire city. Minneapolis prohibits panhandling in certain areas, which you could make an argument for. In Oakland Park, FL, however, the mere act of giving "anything of value" to a panhandler is punishable by a fine or jail time, even if the person being given the money is selling the giver flowers or a newspaper.

So you're saying the government has no right to regulate someone's means of acquiring money?

No, I'm saying that criminalizing street peddlers is a sure-fire way to keep people on the street, or force them to turn to petty theft and robbery. They're keeping people from acquiring enough resources to eat because they don't think that it looks pretty.

In Anchorage AK and numerous other municipalities, anti-camping laws have been enacted that prohibit people from setting up any sort of shelter in a public area.

I'm not allowed to set up a goddamn tent in the middle of the street? Injustice, I say!

Actually, that would already be covered under another law regarding impeding a public thoroughfare. This doesn't allow them to even put blankets over themselves if they fall asleep in a public park.

[Vedastia]

Utah's situation has proved that it's cheaper to house the homeless in relatively comfortable accommodations than it is to make their existence a crime. However, that might have worked because of the relatively low housing prices in the state, even in Salt Lake. It might not work in LA, where the most decrepit gangland shack will go for at least $1 million.

Mmm, that's definitely true, but I suspect that if we gave a shot at building studio-style condos en masse (imagine the jobs created!), we could make a huge dent in the situation.

LA's debt situation and zoning laws would probably be an obstacle to that. I don't know the statistics regarding this, but there might be enough housing available without the need for additional construction at government expense.

[Ethel mermania]

It's the way I read the op, that these people want to live in their cars and see that as a positive choice.

I don't know how I feel about the specific laws, I think as a society we fail our mentally disabled population miserably, and my experience tells me most of the homeless I run into fall into this category.

Now for the few who do make it a lifestyle choice, I think we as a society owe them nothing.

I imagine that in a country the size of the US there are a few people who prefer to live without a permanent residence. Or perhaps you mean something else by "the few who do make it a lifestyle choice".

No, you have the jist of it. The amount of people here who are permanently homeless have issues even if they are refusing psychiatric treatment For those issues, and we really just don't help them enough.

[Baroque 0bama]

They are trying to get rid of the homeless by killing them off. Instead of helping them not be homeless.

[Arana]

They are trying to get rid of the homeless by killing them off. Instead of helping them not be homeless.

So... can I just say I love your name?

[Ifreann]

I imagine that in a country the size of the US there are a few people who prefer to live without a permanent residence. Or perhaps you mean something else by "the few who do make it a lifestyle choice".

No, you have the jist of it.

Well then they're hardly worth consideration. They're either just not going to avail themselves of services to help people get off the streets, or if they do, do so only briefly and in small numbers.

[Vedastia]

They are trying to get rid of the homeless by killing them off. Instead of helping them not be homeless.

So... can I just say I love your name?

That avatar is also amazing.

[Baroque 0bama]

Atleast Saltlake city is ruled by non-psychopaths.

[AiliailiA]

At least Saltlake city is ruled by non-psychopaths.

There's probably one or two on the council. Luckily they were outvoted ...