Christianity and Libertarianism?

[Kincoboh]

I'm impressed at how quickly this thread turned into libsocs against ancaps. Did anyone mention the Quakers? They're pretty much the closest to true libertarian Christians. I respect the Quakers a whole lot, and they're one of the reasons why I don't hate religion anymore.

[Liberusy]

Actually you just have to believe in him in order to get salvation, [John 3:16] though you should still follow his other commandments they aren't really required for salvation.
That is all besides the point though [I am sure Grand Calvert would be happy to take this discussion to TG for you though if you want]

My parents have advanced degrees in theology and divinity, my father was a pastor, I was a Christian for most of my life. I know what Christianity is about. And there's a reason that when I was a Christian, I was a Fascist.

Because you wanted to enforce God's commandments on to others?
That is actually where I think Jesus was in favor of Separation of Church and state when he said.
"Give back to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's." And they were amazed at him." -Mark 12:17
Basically implying the state has a role [which should be to protect natural rights] and the church has a role [to obey God's commandments and serve God]

[Grand Calvert]

What the heck made you a fascist? And how did Christianity lead you to fascism?

Largely, Romans 13. A belief in absolute morality. That the State was ordained by God.

That's the problem with not understanding the historical point behind Romans 13. If you think it's this blanket application for all governments, then that's a reasonable conclusion.

[Mysterious Stranger]

What the heck made you a fascist? And how did Christianity lead you to fascism?

Largely, Romans 13. A belief in absolute morality. That the State was ordained by God.

Should have talked to me. I could have talked some sense into you.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

My parents have advanced degrees in theology and divinity, my father was a pastor, I was a Christian for most of my life. I know what Christianity is about. And there's a reason that when I was a Christian, I was a Fascist.

Because you wanted to enforce God's commandments on to others?
That is actually where I think Jesus was in favor of Separation of Church and state when he said.
"Give back to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's." And they were amazed at him." -Mark 12:17
Basically implying the state has a role [which should be to protect natural rights] and the church has a role [to obey God's commandments and serve God]

No, because I believed Fascism was ultimately practical and fully compatible with Christianity. Which I still believe. Except now, I'm not a Christian and I'm an anarchist.

[Grand Calvert]

Because you wanted to enforce God's commandments on to others?
That is actually where I think Jesus was in favor of Separation of Church and state when he said.
"Give back to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's." And they were amazed at him." -Mark 12:17
Basically implying the state has a role [which should be to protect natural rights] and the church has a role [to obey God's commandments and serve God]

No, because I believed Fascism was ultimately practical and fully compatible with Christianity. Which I still believe. Except now, I'm not a Christian and I'm an anarchist.

Then why are you so pro-tax?

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Largely, Romans 13. A belief in absolute morality. That the State was ordained by God.

Should have talked to me. I could have talked some sense into you.

I doubt it. I was the only Fascist in NSG for quite some time, and I held my own, let me tell you.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

No, because I believed Fascism was ultimately practical and fully compatible with Christianity. Which I still believe. Except now, I'm not a Christian and I'm an anarchist.

Then why are you so pro-tax?

...I'm not?

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Largely, Romans 13. A belief in absolute morality. That the State was ordained by God.

That's the problem with not understanding the historical point behind Romans 13. If you think it's this blanket application for all governments, then that's a reasonable conclusion.

Yes, because it is. It's a general statement Paul made. God has put governments in place over us, according to Paul, and we should respect them.

[Grand Calvert]

Then why are you so pro-tax?

...I'm not?

You keep trying to convince me that paying taxes is central to Christianity. If you aren't pro-tax, what's the point of trying to convince me?

[Prussia-Steinbach]

I'm impressed at how quickly this thread turned into libsocs against ancaps. Did anyone mention the Quakers? They're pretty much the closest to true libertarian Christians. I respect the Quakers a whole lot, and they're one of the reasons why I don't hate religion anymore.

I'm an anarchist, fyi. And I suppose my economic views are essentially communist.

[Liberusy]

I'm impressed at how quickly this thread turned into libsocs against ancaps. Did anyone mention the Quakers? They're pretty much the closest to true libertarian Christians. I respect the Quakers a whole lot, and they're one of the reasons why I don't hate religion anymore.

I'm an anarchist, fyi. And I suppose my economic views are essentially communist.

Who would enforce the economy that way?

[Prussia-Steinbach]

...I'm not?

You keep trying to convince me that paying taxes is central to Christianity. If you aren't pro-tax, what's the point of trying to convince me?

It's not central, but it is an aspect. And because it's the correct way of looking at it. The thread is about the compatibility of Right-Wing Libertarianism and Christianity, so that's what we're discussing.

I'm a fucking anarchist. No need to tax if everything is free and provided for.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

I'm an anarchist, fyi. And I suppose my economic views are essentially communist.

Who would enforce the economy that way?

Capitalism is not the natural order of things.

[Grand Calvert]

You keep trying to convince me that paying taxes is central to Christianity. If you aren't pro-tax, what's the point of trying to convince me?

It's not central, but it is an aspect. And because it's the correct way of looking at it. The thread is about the compatibility of Right-Wing Libertarianism and Christianity, so that's what we're discussing.

I'm a fucking anarchist. No need to tax if everything is free and provided for.

Provided for by whom?

[Prussia-Steinbach]

It's not central, but it is an aspect. And because it's the correct way of looking at it. The thread is about the compatibility of Right-Wing Libertarianism and Christianity, so that's what we're discussing.

I'm a fucking anarchist. No need to tax if everything is free and provided for.

Provided for by whom?

Society. Everyone.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Should have talked to me. I could have talked some sense into you.

I doubt it. I was the only Fascist in NSG for quite some time, and I held my own, let me tell you.

You don't know who you're messing with. I might as well be christian anarchism's own personal Jesus Christ.
I'm guessing your thought process was pretty much, "all authority is derived from God," well, that doesn't leave much room for context, does it?

[Kincoboh]

What say you guys about the Quakers, their belief in the priesthood of all believers? About Christian Anarchism? Liberation theology? Christianity is as diverse as the countries that believe in it, and I think you can shoehorn Christianity to be compatible with any belief system you want. Taken altogether, though, Jesus himself was not right-wing, nor was he authoritarian (besides, you know, appealing to God). So, I think Christian Anarchism works better as a belief than right-wing libertarianism Christianity.

[Liberusy]

Provided for by whom?

Society. Everyone.

Who would dictate this though?

[Prussia-Steinbach]

So everyone knows, I think Christianity as a belief system at all is pure bull shit.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Society. Everyone.

Who would dictate this though?

It wouldn't be dictated. It would be democratically agreed upon.

[Mysterious Stranger]

I'm an anarchist, fyi. And I suppose my economic views are essentially communist.

Who would enforce the economy that way?

No one, that's the point. You can't have a bourgeoisie without a government.

[Mysterious Stranger]

What say you guys about the Quakers, their belief in the priesthood of all believers? About Christian Anarchism? Liberation theology? Christianity is as diverse as the countries that believe in it, and I think you can shoehorn Christianity to be compatible with any belief system you want. Taken altogether, though, Jesus himself was not right-wing, nor was he authoritarian (besides, you know, appealing to God). So, I think Christian Anarchism works better as a belief than right-wing libertarianism Christianity.

Yeah, I believe in both Christian anarchism and liberation theology. I was also influenced by South African contextual theology in its assessment of Jesus as ultimately a figure on the side of the persecuted and the marginalized across all cultures, making God's kingdom an insurrection against the power structure of the world. I think that's the conclusion anybody who looks at the gospels directly, without bringing their own preconceptions to them, walks away with about Jesus.

[Ardoki]

My parents have advanced degrees in theology and divinity, my father was a pastor, I was a Christian for most of my life. I know what Christianity is about. And there's a reason that when I was a Christian, I was a Fascist.

Because you wanted to enforce God's commandments on to others?
That is actually where I think Jesus was in favor of Separation of Church and state when he said.
"Give back to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's." And they were amazed at him." -Mark 12:17
Basically implying the state has a role [which should be to protect natural rights] and the church has a role [to obey God's commandments and serve God]

What are natural rights?

Explain what kind of rights you would call natural?

How are any rights natural?

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Because you wanted to enforce God's commandments on to others?
That is actually where I think Jesus was in favor of Separation of Church and state when he said.
"Give back to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's." And they were amazed at him." -Mark 12:17
Basically implying the state has a role [which should be to protect natural rights] and the church has a role [to obey God's commandments and serve God]

What are natural rights?

Explain what kind of rights you would call natural?

How are any rights natural?

This is another reason I was a firmly Fascist Christians. There are no such things as rights. Rights can't be taken away, and every so-called "right" has been taken away, by, guess who, the government. They're not real. They are given to you by the State.