NationStates

Posted: **Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:50 pm**

Mysterious Stranger wrote:
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:I want to fucking bash my head into a wall.

There's context to the Ten Commandments, too. God only gave that to the people following Moses. Not to all us white Gentiles, we didn't even know it was happening at the time.

Context, learn it.

Yeah, correct. They were part of the law and foundational to the old covenant. Christians are under the new covenant, so they're not binding to us. That is actually a perfect example of Calvert's point.

No. Examples of God's Moral Law are repeated in the New Testament (i.e. adultery, theft, etc.)

Posted: **Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:51 pm**

Liberusy wrote:
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:I want to fucking bash my head into a wall.

There's context to the Ten Commandments, too. God only gave that to the people following Moses. Not to all us white Gentiles, we didn't even know it was happening at the time.

Context, learn it.

Well actually Jesus clarified the 10 Commandments
1. Love the Lord your God with all your with all your heart, mind, soul.
2. Love your neighbor as yourslef.
Context is indeed good to know.
Mysterious Stranger wrote:Workers' ownership of the means of production. What's yours?

By Merriam-Webster
" a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done"

That's not everyone getting paid the same.
Wikipedia has "Socialism is a social and economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy, as well as a political theory and movement that aims at the establishment of such a system."

Posted: **Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:51 pm**

Liberusy wrote:
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:I want to fucking bash my head into a wall.

There's context to the Ten Commandments, too. God only gave that to the people following Moses. Not to all us white Gentiles, we didn't even know it was happening at the time.

Context, learn it.

Well actually Jesus clarified the 10 Commandments
1. Love the Lord your God with all your with all your heart, mind, soul.
2. Love your neighbor as yourslef.
Context is indeed good to know.

Those are the only rules we need to follow? Everything the Apostles said was just bull shit?

Posted: **Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:51 pm**

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
Wolfmanne wrote:Well OP, there we have it. God supports big government.

In all honesty, it makes sense, seeing that libertarianism wants to bring us back to the early 20th century, back to the days of laissez-faire, where industrialists were able to role over carpets over the poor and crush them with low wages and bankrupt the world by reintroducing the gold standard.

Jesus wasn't an economist and pretty much all libertarians are poor ones who seem content with ignoring the success of the European welfare states which keep people out of poverty and fair, but not too excessive, regulation of businesses. Britain is very neoliberal yet maintains a NHS and a welfare state; OP, if you support economic sensibility and consider yourself a faithful Christian man, then why do you support a system that fundamentally preaches selfishness?

Already tried. I'm beginning to think it's a lost cause.

If your cause is to convert me to statism, then yes, it is a lost cause.

Posted: **Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:52 pm**

Grand Calvert wrote:
Mysterious Stranger wrote:Yeah, correct. They were part of the law and foundational to the old covenant. Christians are under the new covenant, so they're not binding to us. That is actually a perfect example of Calvert's point.

No. Examples of God's Moral Law are repeated in the New Testament (i.e. adultery, theft, etc.)

So, laws have to be in both the New and Old to be valid? Not just the latest one?

Posted: **Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:52 pm**

Grand Calvert wrote:
Mysterious Stranger wrote:Yeah, correct. They were part of the law and foundational to the old covenant. Christians are under the new covenant, so they're not binding to us. That is actually a perfect example of Calvert's point.

No. Examples of God's Moral Law are repeated in the New Testament (i.e. adultery, theft, etc.)

Sure, but we're not under the law. Now we just do good because we want to, having been transformed by Christ.

Posted: **Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:52 pm**

Grand Calvert wrote:
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:Already tried. I'm beginning to think it's a lost cause.

If your cause is to convert me to statism, then yes, it is a lost cause.

If you actually think I am a statist, I'm not sure anything I have fucking said has gotten through to you

Posted: **Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:53 pm**

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
Liberusy wrote:Well actually Jesus clarified the 10 Commandments
1. Love the Lord your God with all your with all your heart, mind, soul.
2. Love your neighbor as yourslef.
Context is indeed good to know.

Those are the only rules we need to follow? Everything the Apostles said was just bull shit?

No, that's what sums up God's commandments. Obviously there's specific examples. For example, "Love God with all your heart" implies that fornication is wrong, because that is morally offensive to God and it isn't very loving of us to disobey Him.

Posted: **Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:54 pm**

Mysterious Stranger wrote:
Grand Calvert wrote:
No. Examples of God's Moral Law are repeated in the New Testament (i.e. adultery, theft, etc.)

Sure, but we're not under the law. Now we just do good because we want to, having been transformed by Christ.

We're still commanded to do good, it's not like God just expects us to do things on our terms rather than His.

Posted: **Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:54 pm**

Grand Calvert wrote:
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:Those are the only rules we need to follow? Everything the Apostles said was just bull shit?

No, that's what sums up God's commandments. Obviously there's specific examples. For example, "Love God with all your heart" implies that fornication is wrong, because that is morally offensive to God and it isn't very loving of us to disobey Him.

That's not the same thing as being under the law though.

Posted: **Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:55 pm**

Mysterious Stranger wrote:
Grand Calvert wrote:
No, that's what sums up God's commandments. Obviously there's specific examples. For example, "Love God with all your heart" implies that fornication is wrong, because that is morally offensive to God and it isn't very loving of us to disobey Him.

That's not the same thing as being under the law though.

Yeah, because we're not under law, we're under grace. That doesn't make sin okay, though.

Posted: **Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:55 pm**

Grand Calvert wrote:
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:Those are the only rules we need to follow? Everything the Apostles said was just bull shit?

No, that's what sums up God's commandments. Obviously there's specific examples. For example, "Love God with all your heart" implies that fornication is wrong, because that is morally offensive to God and it isn't very loving of us to disobey Him.

Where did Christ specifically say sex outside of marriage is wrong? (Honest question.)

And you know what verses like "If you owe taxes, pay taxes" imply? That you should pay taxes.

Posted: **Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:56 pm**

Grand Calvert wrote:
Mysterious Stranger wrote:Sure, but we're not under the law. Now we just do good because we want to, having been transformed by Christ.

We're still commanded to do good, it's not like God just expects us to do things on our terms rather than His.

Yes, do good, like obeying the government and paying taxes.

Posted: **Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:56 pm**

Grand Calvert wrote:
Mysterious Stranger wrote:That's not the same thing as being under the law though.

Yeah, because we're not under law, we're under grace. That doesn't make sin okay, though.

Grace is freedom from sin, which is death. If you're under grace, you're not enslaved to sin any longer.

Posted: **Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:57 pm**

Mysterious Stranger wrote:
Grand Calvert wrote:
Yeah, because we're not under law, we're under grace. That doesn't make sin okay, though.

Grace is freedom from sin, which is death. If you're under grace, you're not enslaved to sin any longer.

Right.

Posted: **Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:57 pm**

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
Liberusy wrote:Well actually Jesus clarified the 10 Commandments
1. Love the Lord your God with all your with all your heart, mind, soul.
2. Love your neighbor as yourslef.
Context is indeed good to know.

Those are the only rules we need to follow? Everything the Apostles said was just bull shit?

Actually you just have to believe in him in order to get salvation, [John 3:16] though you should still follow his other commandments they aren't really required for salvation.
That is all besides the point though [I am sure Grand Calvert would be happy to take this discussion to TG for you though if you want]

Posted: **Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:59 pm**

Liberusy wrote:
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:Those are the only rules we need to follow? Everything the Apostles said was just bull shit?

Actually you just have to believe in him in order to get salvation, [John 3:16] though you should still follow his other commandments they aren't really required for salvation.
That is all besides the point though [I am sure Grand Calvert would be happy to take this discussion to TG for you though if you want]

My parents have advanced degrees in theology and divinity, my father was a pastor, I was a Christian for most of my life. I know what Christianity is about. And there's a reason that when I was a Christian, I was a Fascist.

Posted: **Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:00 pm**

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
Liberusy wrote:Actually you just have to believe in him in order to get salvation, [John 3:16] though you should still follow his other commandments they aren't really required for salvation.
That is all besides the point though [I am sure Grand Calvert would be happy to take this discussion to TG for you though if you want]

My parents have advanced degrees in theology and divinity, my father was a pastor, I was a Christian for most of my life. I know what Christianity is about. And there's a reason that when I was a Christian, I was a Fascist.

????????????

Posted: **Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:00 pm**

Right-Wing Libertarianism is neither Libertarian (communists and anarchists; i.e. socialists are the true Libertarians) nor compatible with Christianity. Jesus proclaimed that the wealthy could not get into heaven, and he told his followers to give all their belongings to the poor along with many other things he said about helping the poor. The way Right-Wing Libertarianism discards the poor and treats them like sub-humans just like other far right-wing regimes have done is most certainly not compatible with the teachings of Jesus.

Posted: **Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:01 pm**

Just commenting so this shows up in my posts. I want to catch up later and join in.

Posted: **Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:01 pm**

Grand Calvert wrote:
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:My parents have advanced degrees in theology and divinity, my father was a pastor, I was a Christian for most of my life. I know what Christianity is about. And there's a reason that when I was a Christian, I was a Fascist.

????????????

Not sure what the point of this is.

Posted: **Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:02 pm**

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
Grand Calvert wrote:
No, that's what sums up God's commandments. Obviously there's specific examples. For example, "Love God with all your heart" implies that fornication is wrong, because that is morally offensive to God and it isn't very loving of us to disobey Him.

Where did Christ specifically say sex outside of marriage is wrong? (Honest question.)

And you know what verses like "If you owe taxes, pay taxes" imply? That you should pay taxes.

Jesus' thing was that he thought everyone had fallen short of the moral law, so he just said that whoever even feels lust "has already committed adultery in their heart." So I guess that would supersede the issue. His insistence that remarriage is adultery seems to imply that he wouldn't be chill with sex before marriage, but that's kind of missing the point, there is literally no way of living up to Jesus' standards and he intended it that way.

Posted: **Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:02 pm**

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
Grand Calvert wrote:
????????????

Not sure what the point of this is.

What the heck made you a fascist? And how did Christianity lead you to fascism?

Posted: **Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:03 pm**

Grand Calvert wrote:
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:Not sure what the point of this is.

What the heck made you a fascist? And how did Christianity lead you to fascism?

Largely, Romans 13. A belief in absolute morality. That the State was ordained by God.

Posted: **Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:03 pm**

Mysterious Stranger wrote:
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:Where did Christ specifically say sex outside of marriage is wrong? (Honest question.)

And you know what verses like "If you owe taxes, pay taxes" imply? That you should pay taxes.

Jesus' thing was that he thought everyone had fallen short of the moral law, so he just said that whoever even feels lust "has already committed adultery in their heart." So I guess that would supersede the issue. His insistence that remarriage is adultery seems to imply that he wouldn't be chill with sex before marriage, but that's kind of missing the point, there is literally no way of living up to Jesus' standards and he intended it that way.

Exactly. That's why His crucifixion is a valid payment for sin; He was what we couldn't be.

NationStates

Christianity and Libertarianism?