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Christianity and Libertarianism?

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Pandeeria
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Founded: Jun 12, 2011
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Postby Pandeeria » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:10 pm

United Russian Soviet States wrote:
The National Anarchist Oppressed Lands wrote:What culture values? Whose cultural values?

Our religious values.
Pandeeria wrote:
Of catholicism? What? 'Cause they want the US to be a pseudo-christian theocracy? Because they fight for your right to stomp on those that don't fit your heavily religiously-subjected moral compass?

That is correct.


You don't have the right to take away others right. This is the US, it's at least suppose to be the land of opportunity and freedom. You can keep your own religious beliefs to yourself, but you don' have the right to force them on others.
Lavochkin wrote:Never got why educated people support communism.

In capitalism, you pretty much have a 50/50 chance of being rich or poor. In communism, it's 1/99. What makes people think they have the luck/skill to become the 1% if they can't even succeed in a 50/50 society???

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Confederate Ramenia
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Postby Confederate Ramenia » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:12 pm

Pandeeria wrote:
United Russian Soviet States wrote:Our religious values.
That is correct.


You don't have the right to take away others right. This is the US, it's at least suppose to be the land of opportunity and freedom. You can keep your own religious beliefs to yourself, but you don' have the right to force them on others.

This isn't US, this is California Crusader State.
The Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a genuine workers' state in which all the people are completely liberated from exploitation and oppression. The workers, peasants, soldiers and intellectuals are the true masters of their destiny and are in a unique position to defend their interests.
The Flutterlands wrote:Because human life and dignity is something that should be universally valued above all things in society.

Benito Mussolini wrote:Everybody has the right to create for himself his own ideology and to attempt to enforce it with all the energy of which he is capable.

I disown most of my previous posts

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Nordengrund
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Postby Nordengrund » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:12 pm

Pandeeria wrote:
United Russian Soviet States wrote:Our religious values.
That is correct.


You don't have the right to take away others right. This is the US, it's at least suppose to be the land of opportunity and freedom. You can keep your own religious beliefs to yourself, but you don' have the right to force them on others.


That does not mean he cannot express his religious beliefs or talk about it, as long as he is not forcing it on others.
Why I’m not a conservative.

Pro:Life, Christianity, Christian humanism, libertarianism, Georgism, LVT, legalization of soft drugs, marriage privatization, Israel
Neutral/Mixed: Trump, capital punishment, vaccinations (everyone should be vaccinated, but I oppose giving the government power over it), euthanasia, Libertarian Party, capitalism, Palestine
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Pandeeria
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Postby Pandeeria » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:13 pm

Nordengrund wrote:
Pandeeria wrote:
You don't have the right to take away others right. This is the US, it's at least suppose to be the land of opportunity and freedom. You can keep your own religious beliefs to yourself, but you don' have the right to force them on others.


That does not mean he cannot express his religious beliefs or talk about it, as long as he is not forcing it on others.


But he sure as hell is trying to force it on others via supporting the GOP. He also wants to force it on others.
Lavochkin wrote:Never got why educated people support communism.

In capitalism, you pretty much have a 50/50 chance of being rich or poor. In communism, it's 1/99. What makes people think they have the luck/skill to become the 1% if they can't even succeed in a 50/50 society???

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United Russian Soviet States
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Postby United Russian Soviet States » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:14 pm

Pandeeria wrote:
Nordengrund wrote:
That does not mean he cannot express his religious beliefs or talk about it, as long as he is not forcing it on others.


But he sure as hell is trying to force it on others via supporting the GOP. He also wants to force it on others.

I don't want to force it on others. I am a libertarian.
This nation does not represent my views.
I stand with Rand.
_[' ]_
(-_Q) If you support Capitalism put this in your Sig.
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Twilight Imperium
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Postby Twilight Imperium » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:15 pm

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:I'm leaving this thread before I get a fucking warning. Suffice it to say, you do not understand what communism/socialism/libertarianism/Christianity is. Call me delusional. I couldn't give any less fucks at this point. Talk to me again once you can buy cigarettes, read some political theory, and become homeless for a while.


Heh. "None of you agree with me, so you all must be 16 and sheltered! Why am I the only correct one in the world? :( "

That said, there are some points to be made paralleling Christianity and libertarianism - especially along the axes of charitable giving. The main difference I'd point out is that Jesus would expect everyone to help everyone, where libertarians tend to hope everyone else will help out.

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Pandeeria
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Postby Pandeeria » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:16 pm

United Russian Soviet States wrote:
Pandeeria wrote:
But he sure as hell is trying to force it on others via supporting the GOP. He also wants to force it on others.

I don't want to force it on others. I am a libertarian.


You said earlier in the thread "yes" to what I was asking you.

Though let me ask, do you think gays should have the legal right to get married? Do you think a mother has the right to terminate her pregnancy? Do you think we should tech creationism in schools?
Lavochkin wrote:Never got why educated people support communism.

In capitalism, you pretty much have a 50/50 chance of being rich or poor. In communism, it's 1/99. What makes people think they have the luck/skill to become the 1% if they can't even succeed in a 50/50 society???

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United Russian Soviet States
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Postby United Russian Soviet States » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:18 pm

Pandeeria wrote:
United Russian Soviet States wrote:I don't want to force it on others. I am a libertarian.


You said earlier in the thread "yes" to what I was asking you.

Though let me ask, do you think gays should have the legal right to get married? Do you think a mother has the right to terminate her pregnancy? Do you think we should tech creationism in schools?

Gays have no legal right to get married, a mother has no right to terminate her pregnancy, and creationism should not be taught in schools.
This nation does not represent my views.
I stand with Rand.
_[' ]_
(-_Q) If you support Capitalism put this in your Sig.
:Member of the United National Group:

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Kincoboh
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Founded: Oct 06, 2014
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Postby Kincoboh » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:19 pm

United Russian Soviet States wrote:
Kincoboh wrote:No, the GOP does not respect your culture. Look at that Arizona law, a clearly racist law. The Democrats are no better really because they support economic policies that has proliferated illegal immigration. Really, the only thing that I can see that the GOP has in common with Hispanics is that both are majority anti-abortion. Conservatives in the U.S. have always been racist, so it is a wonder that you would find an ideological home with those who hate you for you.

The abortion issue is that big.

Indeed, but you can be anti-abortion and not a Republican.
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Arana
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Postby Arana » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:20 pm

United Russian Soviet States wrote:
Pandeeria wrote:
You said earlier in the thread "yes" to what I was asking you.

Though let me ask, do you think gays should have the legal right to get married? Do you think a mother has the right to terminate her pregnancy? Do you think we should tech creationism in schools?

Gays have no legal right to get married, a mother has no right to terminate her pregnancy, and creationism should not be taught in schools.

Therefore (at least, for the first two) you are trying to force your beliefs on others.
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Pandeeria
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Postby Pandeeria » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:20 pm

United Russian Soviet States wrote:
Pandeeria wrote:
You said earlier in the thread "yes" to what I was asking you.

Though let me ask, do you think gays should have the legal right to get married? Do you think a mother has the right to terminate her pregnancy? Do you think we should tech creationism in schools?

Gays have no legal right to get married, a mother has no right to terminate her pregnancy, and creationism should not be taught in schools.


So you're not a libertarian, or at least you wish to force your religious beliefs on others, eh?
Lavochkin wrote:Never got why educated people support communism.

In capitalism, you pretty much have a 50/50 chance of being rich or poor. In communism, it's 1/99. What makes people think they have the luck/skill to become the 1% if they can't even succeed in a 50/50 society???

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Kincoboh
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Postby Kincoboh » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:21 pm

United Russian Soviet States wrote:
Pandeeria wrote:
You said earlier in the thread "yes" to what I was asking you.

Though let me ask, do you think gays should have the legal right to get married? Do you think a mother has the right to terminate her pregnancy? Do you think we should tech creationism in schools?

Gays have no legal right to get married, a mother has no right to terminate her pregnancy, and creationism should not be taught in schools.

Not very libertarian of you.
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United Russian Soviet States
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Postby United Russian Soviet States » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:21 pm

Pandeeria wrote:
United Russian Soviet States wrote:Gays have no legal right to get married, a mother has no right to terminate her pregnancy, and creationism should not be taught in schools.


So you're not a libertarian, or at least you wish to force your religious beliefs on others, eh?

I wish for the fetus to have a right to life.
This nation does not represent my views.
I stand with Rand.
_[' ]_
(-_Q) If you support Capitalism put this in your Sig.
:Member of the United National Group:

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Arana
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Postby Arana » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:22 pm

United Russian Soviet States wrote:
Pandeeria wrote:
So you're not a libertarian, or at least you wish to force your religious beliefs on others, eh?

I wish for the fetus to have a right to life.

And wish for the government to ban gay marriage. You're a pretty shitty libertarian.
Prophet of Lavanthulhu -- A Proud Portal Nationalist -- Bet on Bernie 2016

Arana wrote:Fuck you and your raps,
And all your stupid rhyming.
Haiku master race.

*Drops mic*
Seventeen year old probably straight Christian socialist from New England.

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Grand Calvert
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Postby Grand Calvert » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:22 pm

Kincoboh wrote:
United Russian Soviet States wrote:Gays have no legal right to get married, a mother has no right to terminate her pregnancy, and creationism should not be taught in schools.

Not very libertarian of you.


Very libertarian.

1. Marriage should be left as a religious affair; govt. has nothing to do w/ making sure gays can get married

2. Fetuses are human beings, no one has the right to kill them

3. There shouldn't even be public schools
Last edited by Grand Calvert on Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Confederate Ramenia
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Postby Confederate Ramenia » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:24 pm

Pandeeria wrote:
United Russian Soviet States wrote:I don't want to force it on others. I am a libertarian.


You said earlier in the thread "yes" to what I was asking you.

Though let me ask, do you think gays should have the legal right to get married? Do you think a mother has the right to terminate her pregnancy? Do you think we should tech creationism in schools?

I SHALL BE THE WHITE KNIGHT WHO DEFENDS THOSE GANGBANGED OR BEATEN IN DEBATES!

He said yes to only the first part. As a fellow libertarian, I believe neither straight nor gay marriages should be legally recognised as marriage is a purely religious and cultural institution that should not be corrupted by government. Personally, I oppose abortion in most cases, but this is unrelated to theocracy, and controversial even among libertarians. Creationism should not be taught as "this is what happened" but maybe included into a class which shows various religious beliefs.
The Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a genuine workers' state in which all the people are completely liberated from exploitation and oppression. The workers, peasants, soldiers and intellectuals are the true masters of their destiny and are in a unique position to defend their interests.
The Flutterlands wrote:Because human life and dignity is something that should be universally valued above all things in society.

Benito Mussolini wrote:Everybody has the right to create for himself his own ideology and to attempt to enforce it with all the energy of which he is capable.

I disown most of my previous posts

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United Russian Soviet States
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Postby United Russian Soviet States » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:25 pm

Confederate Ramenia wrote:
Pandeeria wrote:
You said earlier in the thread "yes" to what I was asking you.

Though let me ask, do you think gays should have the legal right to get married? Do you think a mother has the right to terminate her pregnancy? Do you think we should tech creationism in schools?

I SHALL BE THE WHITE KNIGHT WHO DEFENDS THOSE GANGBANGED OR BEATEN IN DEBATES!

He said yes to only the first part. As a fellow libertarian, I believe neither straight nor gay marriages should be legally recognised as marriage is a purely religious and cultural institution that should not be corrupted by government. Personally, I oppose abortion in most cases, but this is unrelated to theocracy, and controversial even among libertarians. Creationism should not be taught as "this is what happened" but maybe included into a class which shows various religious beliefs.

Thank you. :clap:
This nation does not represent my views.
I stand with Rand.
_[' ]_
(-_Q) If you support Capitalism put this in your Sig.
:Member of the United National Group:

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Pandeeria
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Postby Pandeeria » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:27 pm

Confederate Ramenia wrote:
Pandeeria wrote:
You said earlier in the thread "yes" to what I was asking you.

Though let me ask, do you think gays should have the legal right to get married? Do you think a mother has the right to terminate her pregnancy? Do you think we should tech creationism in schools?

I SHALL BE THE WHITE KNIGHT WHO DEFENDS THOSE GANGBANGED OR BEATEN IN DEBATES!

He said yes to only the first part. As a fellow libertarian, I believe neither straight nor gay marriages should be legally recognised as marriage is a purely religious and cultural institution that should not be corrupted by government. Personally, I oppose abortion in most cases, but this is unrelated to theocracy, and controversial even among libertarians. Creationism should not be taught as "this is what happened" but maybe included into a class which shows various religious beliefs.


Ehh, still seems quite theocratic to me. I'll just give this the stamp of disapproval and move on. (I actually got to go).
Lavochkin wrote:Never got why educated people support communism.

In capitalism, you pretty much have a 50/50 chance of being rich or poor. In communism, it's 1/99. What makes people think they have the luck/skill to become the 1% if they can't even succeed in a 50/50 society???

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Nordengrund
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Postby Nordengrund » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:34 pm

Pandeeria wrote:
United Russian Soviet States wrote:Gays have no legal right to get married, a mother has no right to terminate her pregnancy, and creationism should not be taught in schools.


So you're not a libertarian, or at least you wish to force your religious beliefs on others, eh?


No matter how you look at it, somebody's rights are going to violated. Take abortion for example.
You cannot uphold the right to life of the child without violating the woman's bodily sovereignty nor can you uphold her bodily sovereignty without violating the baby's right to life.
Why I’m not a conservative.

Pro:Life, Christianity, Christian humanism, libertarianism, Georgism, LVT, legalization of soft drugs, marriage privatization, Israel
Neutral/Mixed: Trump, capital punishment, vaccinations (everyone should be vaccinated, but I oppose giving the government power over it), euthanasia, Libertarian Party, capitalism, Palestine
Anti: Gun control, auhtoritarianism, Communism, theocracy, antitheism, progressivism, Republican Party, Democratic Party

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Kincoboh
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Postby Kincoboh » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:37 pm

Grand Calvert wrote:
Kincoboh wrote:Not very libertarian of you.


Very libertarian.

1. Marriage should be left as a religious affair; govt. has nothing to do w/ making sure gays can get married

2. Fetuses are human beings, no one has the right to kill them

3. There shouldn't even be public schools

There are secular marriages and pro-gay religions, you know. Do not want to get into abortion argument, but many conservatives tend to care more about fetuses than people. I think the current way of education should be reformed, but I don't think that ideologies should be the platform for education. I think learning about religions should be encouraged and celebrated, but I don't think that religion should be the platform for education.
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Ardoki
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Postby Ardoki » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:58 pm

Nordengrund wrote:
Pandeeria wrote:
So you're not a libertarian, or at least you wish to force your religious beliefs on others, eh?


No matter how you look at it, somebody's rights are going to violated. Take abortion for example.
You cannot uphold the right to life of the child without violating the woman's bodily sovereignty nor can you uphold her bodily sovereignty without violating the baby's right to life.

A foetus is not a child. It isn't even a person, therefore it doesn't have the same rights a person has.
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New Werpland
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Postby New Werpland » Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:02 pm

Confederate Ramenia wrote:
New Werpland wrote:He puts people in jail because they don't like him, and bans gays and foreigners from corrupting the youth. What more is there to say?

That seems like heavy progress for a country that not even a century ago had forced labor camps. Many western governments have some levels of suppression and censorship, as well, though of course that doesn't justify it. It simply is not on "medieval" or "tsar" levels. I'm gonna need a source on the opposition to gays and foreigners, as well. Russia's opposition to foreign cultural influence is certainly not menacing.

Putin is literally what you get when you take away all idealism and politburo from the Soviet Union. Putin was a part of the KGB for heaven's sake, he was a part of the people who were carrying out all the atrocities during the soviet period, at least the communists repressed nationalism, built infrastructure, and educated people. Putin wants power, and gets it by revving up medieval age nationalistic tendencies in Russian culture. Do you remember how he made it illegal for people from the U.S to adopt Russian orphans, because "he wants to preserve Russian culture". Letting a bunch of orphans stay in whatever horrible arrangements that Putin has waiting for them in Mother Russia, should be considered a human rights abuse. And this myth that Western nations are as big brothery as Russia, is incredibly stupid. Do you see David Koch being put in jail for embezzlement? Or what about Ted Cruz mysteriously dying while Obama blames it on ISIS?
Last edited by New Werpland on Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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New Werpland
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Postby New Werpland » Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:03 pm

Confederate Ramenia wrote:
Pandeeria wrote:
You said earlier in the thread "yes" to what I was asking you.

Though let me ask, do you think gays should have the legal right to get married? Do you think a mother has the right to terminate her pregnancy? Do you think we should tech creationism in schools?

I SHALL BE THE WHITE KNIGHT WHO DEFENDS THOSE GANGBANGED OR BEATEN IN DEBATES!

He said yes to only the first part. As a fellow libertarian, I believe neither straight nor gay marriages should be legally recognised as marriage is a purely religious and cultural institution that should not be corrupted by government. Personally, I oppose abortion in most cases, but this is unrelated to theocracy, and controversial even among libertarians. Creationism should not be taught as "this is what happened" but maybe included into a class which shows various religious beliefs.

I thought you were a distributist?

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The New Sea Territory
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Founded: Dec 13, 2012
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Postby The New Sea Territory » Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:04 pm

Grand Calvert wrote:
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:It can be argued that allowing discrimination is harmful. Which is something right-wing American libertarians fully support. Not giving to the poor, unable to find a job, is harmful. Allowing evil to continue is a form of violence.


It isn't govt.s' job to just force people to accept things that they don't want to. Nor is is their job to babysit everyone.


Which is all the more reason not to be a conservative "libertarian".
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The New Sea Territory
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Postby The New Sea Territory » Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:06 pm

Grand Calvert wrote:
Kincoboh wrote:Not very libertarian of you.


Very libertarian.

1. Marriage should be left as a religious affair; govt. has nothing to do w/ making sure gays can get married

2. Fetuses are human beings, no one has the right to kill them

3. There shouldn't even be public schools


None of that is libertarian, except (arguably) the last bit. Get your own political label, or just call yourself a conservative. stop dragging us libertarians through your social conservative mud.
| Ⓐ | Anarchist Communist | Heideggerian Marxist | Vegetarian | Bisexual | Stirnerite | Slavic/Germanic Pagan | ᛟ |
Solntsa Roshcha --- Postmodern Poyltheist
"Christianity had brutally planted the poisoned blade in the healthy, quivering flesh of all humanity; it had goaded a cold wave
of darkness with mystically brutal fury to dim the serene and festive exultation of the dionysian spirit of our pagan ancestors."
-Renzo Novatore, Verso il Nulla Creatore

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