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Air Force vet arrested for trying to stop flag desecration

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Tekeristan
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Founded: Mar 08, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Tekeristan » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:12 am

Farnhamia wrote:
-The West Coast- wrote:I'm a patriot and a soldier and a citizen of the United States. I will never break my oath, I will never dishonor my country. If I saw people burning a flag I would stop them, its my duty to stop them and nobody can tell me any different.

Right. Let's move on, shall we? Back to the topic, which is not you.



Guys move on from this.

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Farnhamia
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Postby Farnhamia » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:13 am

Tekeristan wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:Right. Let's move on, shall we? Back to the topic, which is not you.



Guys move on from this.

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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:13 am

Scandinavian Nations wrote:
Kernen wrote:By attempting to prevent Flag Desecration, you are in violation of the Constitution you swore to uphold. This is not an opinion

This is an opinion and you're not.

Otherwise the moderators would be in violation of the Constitution every time they banned a person for exercising their right to free speech in a rule-breaking but legal manner.

You may not have noticed, but the internet is not the United States of America.
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Wisconsin9
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Postby Wisconsin9 » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:14 am

Scandinavian Nations wrote:
Wisconsin9 wrote:I can't speak for anyone else, but I would gladly desecrate the flag as a celebration of my freedom to do so.

I imagine.
After all, they do sell American flag underpants, which is desecration even if not meant as such.

Insult me all you like, it doesn't mean you have a valid point.
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New Frenco Empire
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Postby New Frenco Empire » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:15 am

Scandinavian Nations wrote:
Kernen wrote:By attempting to prevent Flag Desecration, you are in violation of the Constitution you swore to uphold. This is not an opinion

This is an opinion and you're not.

Otherwise the moderators would be in violation of the Constitution every time they banned a person for exercising their right to free speech in a rule-breaking but legal manner.

People have every right to kick you out of their home for whatever reason.
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Stormwind-City
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Founded: Dec 31, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Stormwind-City » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:16 am

Scandinavian Nations wrote:
Kernen wrote:By attempting to prevent Flag Desecration, you are in violation of the Constitution you swore to uphold. This is not an opinion

This is an opinion and you're not.

Otherwise the moderators would be in violation of the Constitution every time they banned a person for exercising their right to free speech in a rule-breaking but legal manner.

NS is based in Australia, IIRC.
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Scandinavian Nations
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Postby Scandinavian Nations » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:16 am

Imperializt Russia wrote:
Scandinavian Nations wrote:This is an opinion and you're not.
Otherwise the moderators would be in violation of the Constitution every time they banned a person for exercising their right to free speech in a rule-breaking but legal manner.

You may not have noticed, but the internet is not the United States of America.

That is untrue. As long as both parties involved and the server are in the US of A, the internet is part of the US of A.

So to reiterate - if "by attempting to prevent Flag Desecration, you are in violation of the Constitution", then an internet board's moderators are also in violation of the Constitution every time they ban a person for actions that fall under free speech under the law but break their board's rules.

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Kernen
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Postby Kernen » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:16 am

Scandinavian Nations wrote:
Kernen wrote:By attempting to prevent Flag Desecration, you are in violation of the Constitution you swore to uphold. This is not an opinion

This is an opinion and you're not.

Otherwise the moderators would be in violation of the Constitution every time they banned a person for exercising their right to free speech in a rule-breaking but legal manner.

The moderators took no such oath to uphold and defend the US Constitution. The site is a private site. It is not even a site based in the US. Care to try again on your comparison?

And if you have an explanation how it is somehow not in violation of the oath that soldiers and officers take to defend and uphold the Constitution that actually utilizes reasonable and logical arguments, I'd be happy to hear you out.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:16 am

Scandinavian Nations wrote:
Kernen wrote:By attempting to prevent Flag Desecration, you are in violation of the Constitution you swore to uphold. This is not an opinion

This is an opinion and you're not.

Otherwise the moderators would be in violation of the Constitution every time they banned a person for exercising their right to free speech in a rule-breaking but legal manner.

People have a constitutionally protected right to desecrate the US flag. People do not have a constitutionally protected right to post on NSG. Not that I'm aware of, at least.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:17 am

Scandinavian Nations wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:You may not have noticed, but the internet is not the United States of America.

That is untrue. As long as both parties involved and the server are in the US of A, the internet is part of the US of A.

NSG's servers are in Canada.

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Aurinsula
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Ex-Nation

Postby Aurinsula » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:18 am

It absolutely, profoundly boggles my mind that anybody could take exception to what somebody does with their own private, inanimate property. If you buy a thing, you own a thing, and owning a thing means that you can destroy a thing. No further explanation is necessary. It's called liberty, baby.

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Oceanic people
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She was wrong....

Postby Oceanic people » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:18 am

What she should have done was take good, clear head shots of everyone who walked on the flag. Been obvious about it. Eventually, they would have attacked her and she could then have had THEM arrested!

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Kernen
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Postby Kernen » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:19 am

Oceanic people wrote:What she should have done was take good, clear head shots of everyone who walked on the flag. Been obvious about it. Eventually, they would have attacked her and she could then have had THEM arrested!

No, she couldn't have. Desecration of the US flag is not illegal.
From the throne of Khan Juk i'Behemoti, Juk Who-Is-The-Strength-of-the-Behemoth, Supreme Khan of the Ogres of Kernen. May the Khan ever drink the blood of his enemies!

Lawful Evil

Get abortions, do drugs, own guns, but never misstate legal procedure.

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Arystav
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Founded: Oct 07, 2014
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Postby Arystav » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:20 am

From my view, take it as you will:
Was the woman legally wrong for taking the flag? Absolutely.
Was she morally wrong? No.

Were the students legally right for desecrating the flag? From what I've seen, yes.
Were they morally wrong for doing so? Yes.

Despite exercising their First Amendment rights, using those freedoms to show such disrespect to the very country that grants those rights is disrespectful to an extreme. I cannot blame a woman who served her country for responding in such a way, as I would imagine myself doing the same.
The land of ice and compassionate dictators.

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Kernen
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Postby Kernen » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:22 am

Arystav wrote:From my view, take it as you will:
Was the woman legally wrong for taking the flag? Absolutely.
Was she morally wrong? No.

Were the students legally right for desecrating the flag? From what I've seen, yes.
Were they morally wrong for doing so? Yes.

Despite exercising their First Amendment rights, using those freedoms to show such disrespect to the very country that grants those rights is disrespectful to an extreme. I cannot blame a woman who served her country for responding in such a way, as I would imagine myself doing the same.

How is it morally wrong to express one's right to free speech? How is it morally right to impede on another's right to free speech?
From the throne of Khan Juk i'Behemoti, Juk Who-Is-The-Strength-of-the-Behemoth, Supreme Khan of the Ogres of Kernen. May the Khan ever drink the blood of his enemies!

Lawful Evil

Get abortions, do drugs, own guns, but never misstate legal procedure.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:22 am

Kernen wrote:
Oceanic people wrote:What she should have done was take good, clear head shots of everyone who walked on the flag. Been obvious about it. Eventually, they would have attacked her and she could then have had THEM arrested!

No, she couldn't have. Desecration of the US flag is not illegal.

But if she was taking pictures of people doing so, and they objected and attacked her in some way, that probably would be illegal, and would get them arrested. Assuming they attacked her.

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Wisconsin9
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Founded: May 18, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Wisconsin9 » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:22 am

Arystav wrote:From my view, take it as you will:
Was the woman legally wrong for taking the flag? Absolutely.
Was she morally wrong? No.

Were the students legally right for desecrating the flag? From what I've seen, yes.
Were they morally wrong for doing so? Yes.

Despite exercising their First Amendment rights, using those freedoms to show such disrespect to the very country that grants those rights is disrespectful to an extreme. I cannot blame a woman who served her country for responding in such a way, as I would imagine myself doing the same.

I don't get the point of this kind of thinking. There's no point having freedoms if using them is wrong.
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Kernen
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Postby Kernen » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:26 am

Ifreann wrote:
Kernen wrote:No, she couldn't have. Desecration of the US flag is not illegal.

But if she was taking pictures of people doing so, and they objected and attacked her in some way, that probably would be illegal, and would get them arrested. Assuming they attacked her.

Yes, however it is not a natural assumption that they would have. And if they did, there's reason to assume that the action would have been considered provoked by the veteran in question, which would likely serve as a mitigating condition for the protesters. Not a very strong one, but mitigating nonetheless.
From the throne of Khan Juk i'Behemoti, Juk Who-Is-The-Strength-of-the-Behemoth, Supreme Khan of the Ogres of Kernen. May the Khan ever drink the blood of his enemies!

Lawful Evil

Get abortions, do drugs, own guns, but never misstate legal procedure.

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Ifreann
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Founded: Aug 07, 2005
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Postby Ifreann » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:32 am

Kernen wrote:
Ifreann wrote:But if she was taking pictures of people doing so, and they objected and attacked her in some way, that probably would be illegal, and would get them arrested. Assuming they attacked her.

Yes, however it is not a natural assumption that they would have.

Indeed it's not. And since campus security were on hand the whole time I expect they'd try to intervene before it actually came to blows.
And if they did, there's reason to assume that the action would have been considered provoked by the veteran in question, which would likely serve as a mitigating condition for the protesters. Not a very strong one, but mitigating nonetheless.

Quite possibly. Like, if she was taking pictures from 20 feet away and someone came up and decked her, there's no mitigating that. But if she was getting in someone's face with her phone and they shoved her back, I could see them getting away with that if Georgia has some kind of "Fighting Words" sort of thing.

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Arystav
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Founded: Oct 07, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Arystav » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:32 am

Wisconsin9 wrote:
Arystav wrote:From my view, take it as you will:
Was the woman legally wrong for taking the flag? Absolutely.
Was she morally wrong? No.

Were the students legally right for desecrating the flag? From what I've seen, yes.
Were they morally wrong for doing so? Yes.

Despite exercising their First Amendment rights, using those freedoms to show such disrespect to the very country that grants those rights is disrespectful to an extreme. I cannot blame a woman who served her country for responding in such a way, as I would imagine myself doing the same.

I don't get the point of this kind of thinking. There's no point having freedoms if using them is wrong.

I'm sorry, "From my view" meaning my morals. I'm not discussing this further as I'm a 17 year old in high school with a fairly limited view of the entire world. Debate my post amongst yourselves if you wish.
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Bezkoshtovnya
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Founded: Sep 06, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Bezkoshtovnya » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:32 am

Arystav wrote:Despite exercising their First Amendment rights, using those freedoms to show such disrespect to the very country that grants those rights is disrespectful to an extreme.

How is using their right to desecrate a flag as a form of protest disrespecting the nation that gives them said rights? This makes no sense.


Arystav wrote:I cannot blame a woman who served her country for responding in such a way, as I would imagine myself doing the same.

Then you would be just as hypocritical as she. She served in the military to supposedly safeguard the people and allow them to exercise such rights, and yet she attempts to prevent the very people she took an oath to defend from using the rights given to them.
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Bezkoshtovnya
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Postby Bezkoshtovnya » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:33 am

Arystav wrote:
Wisconsin9 wrote:I don't get the point of this kind of thinking. There's no point having freedoms if using them is wrong.

I'm sorry, "From my view" meaning my morals. I'm not discussing this further as I'm a 17 year old in high school with a fairly limited view of the entire world. Debate my post amongst yourselves if you wish.

Why bother posting on a debate forum if you are not even willing to defend your stance or debate it?
Dante Alighieri wrote:There is no greater sorrow than to recall happiness in times of misery
Charlie Chaplin wrote:Nothing is permanent in this wicked world, not even our troubles.
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Jamzmania
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Founded: Dec 01, 2012
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Postby Jamzmania » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:35 am

Wisconsin9 wrote:
Arystav wrote:From my view, take it as you will:
Was the woman legally wrong for taking the flag? Absolutely.
Was she morally wrong? No.

Were the students legally right for desecrating the flag? From what I've seen, yes.
Were they morally wrong for doing so? Yes.

Despite exercising their First Amendment rights, using those freedoms to show such disrespect to the very country that grants those rights is disrespectful to an extreme. I cannot blame a woman who served her country for responding in such a way, as I would imagine myself doing the same.

I don't get the point of this kind of thinking. There's no point having freedoms if using them is wrong.

Just because you have a right to do something doesn't make everything you do with that right morally right. I have the right to spew racist crap about blacks. I can say, "Those dirty niggers defile our country!" and all other sorts of horrible things. Maybe I'll also go buy some Korans and burn them in public while spitting on a picture of Obama.

I have a right to do that, but that doesn't mean I'm morally in the right. Nor should I not expect to get punched in the face for it.
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Wisconsin9
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Founded: May 18, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Wisconsin9 » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:35 am

Arystav wrote:
Wisconsin9 wrote:I don't get the point of this kind of thinking. There's no point having freedoms if using them is wrong.

I'm sorry, "From my view" meaning my morals. I'm not discussing this further as I'm a 17 year old in high school with a fairly limited view of the entire world. Debate my post amongst yourselves if you wish.

I'm a 17 year old in high school and I haven't let it stop me.
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We are currently 33% through the Trump administration.
................................................................................................................................................................................................................
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New Frenco Empire
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Founded: Mar 14, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby New Frenco Empire » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:36 am

Arystav wrote:From my view, take it as you will:
Was the woman legally wrong for taking the flag? Absolutely.
Was she morally wrong? No.

Were the students legally right for desecrating the flag? From what I've seen, yes.
Were they morally wrong for doing so? Yes.

Despite exercising their First Amendment rights, using those freedoms to show such disrespect to the very country that grants those rights is disrespectful to an extreme. I cannot blame a woman who served her country for responding in such a way, as I would imagine myself doing the same.

I don't like desecrating the flag, and I can't really find any instances where I myself would engage in such (unless of course such an act would ever become a crime. Then I'd just burn it to stick it to whichever dickass thought it would be a good idea to bend the constitution over and rob it of whatever innocence it had).

However, that isn't the point; the point is we, as Americans, have that right; despite our personal feelings about it.
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Transferring information from disorganized notes into presentable factbooks is way too time consuming for a procrastinator. Just ask if you have questions.
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Las Palmeras wrote:Roaring 20s but in the future and with mutants

Alyakia wrote:you are a modern poet
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