Air Force vet arrested for trying to stop flag desecration

[AiliailiA]

The "protesters" should have been arrested and jailed, not the hero who tried to stop them.

Too bad no hero is here to stop you from desecrating the flag... you're defecating all over it with your words.

Amusingly, Bachmann America isn't here either. They got a one-day ban for Trolling, starting about 5 hours ago.

[Tekania]

I love this nation.

This is a lie. You hate this nation and everything it was founded upon.

[Terra Sector Union]

It's hilarious how many people in the world can have so much hatred for a piece of cloth. They're just wasting time mutilating a flag as protest rather than criticizing the system.

[Pope Joan]

To worship a flag is idolatry.

It is demeaning.

http://www.redletterchristians.org/dari ... n-worship/

http://www.alternet.org/story/22268/the ... ag_worship

[AiliailiA]

To worship a flag is idolatry.

It is demeaning.

http://www.redletterchristians.org/dari ... n-worship/

http://www.alternet.org/story/22268/the ... ag_worship

Whoa!

Devout Christians firmly believe that the Ten Commandments should be etched in stone in our courthouses and emblazoned on the walls of every classroom. The message of the Second Commandment is clear. "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image... Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God..."

I see what the author is trying to go, but the first sentence of that ... well you're a devout Christian aren't you? ... do you believe that?

[Threlizdun]

Apparently that vet isn't interested in upholding the freedoms that flag is supposed to represent. It's good that they stopped her.

[Pope Joan]

To worship a flag is idolatry.

It is demeaning.

http://www.redletterchristians.org/dari ... n-worship/

http://www.alternet.org/story/22268/the ... ag_worship

Whoa!

Devout Christians firmly believe that the Ten Commandments should be etched in stone in our courthouses and emblazoned on the walls of every classroom. The message of the Second Commandment is clear. "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image... Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God..."

I see what the author is trying to go, but the first sentence of that ... well you're a devout Christian aren't you? ... do you believe that?

I am a Christian who is more in line with those Red Letter people who authored that other essay. No, if I want any ten items etched over a courthouse door, it would be the original Bill of RIghts.

[Risottia]

That’s the message Air Force veteran and former Playboy model Michelle Manhart says she was trying to convey by picking up a damaged flag that protesters had been stomping on in a demonstration at Valdosta State University in southern Georgia on Friday.

Was that a flag she owned?

But before she could spirit the flag away, police officers intervened to return the Old Glory to the protesters who were trampling it and escort Manhart off the premises, according to a video of the incident Manhart has posted to Facebook.

So, attempted robbery.

“We gave you a lawful command to let go of this flag, m’am,” one police officer tells Manhart. “This flag does not belong to you.”

The officers handcuffed her and gave the flag back to the applauding demonstrators. But Manhart calls one of the cops a “spiny piece of s---” before being led away to a police cruiser in the video.

Attempted robbery and insulting a police officer.

Neither the demonstrators nor the police decided to press charges against Manhart, but she did receive a campus trespass warning that bars her from campus activities, university spokesman Andy Clark told The Valdosta Daily Times.

Attempted robbery and insulting a police officer and trespassing now.

She said she doesn’t approve of Supreme Court rulings that protect flag trampling and flag burning as free speech under the First Amendment, according to the Daily Times.

Attempted robbery and insulting a police officer and trespassing and disrespecting SC rulings now.

Your thoughts?

She's just pulling self-promotion stunts. Likely looking for a career either as right-wing politician or as Fox News pundit. Too bad she also proved, incidentally, she doesn't give a shit about the laws and the Constitution of the US. What a sorry excuse for a citizen.

[Teemant]

That’s the message Air Force veteran and former Playboy model Michelle Manhart says she was trying to convey by picking up a damaged flag that protesters had been stomping on in a demonstration at Valdosta State University in southern Georgia on Friday.

Was that a flag she owned?

But before she could spirit the flag away, police officers intervened to return the Old Glory to the protesters who were trampling it and escort Manhart off the premises, according to a video of the incident Manhart has posted to Facebook.

So, attempted robbery.

“We gave you a lawful command to let go of this flag, m’am,” one police officer tells Manhart. “This flag does not belong to you.”

The officers handcuffed her and gave the flag back to the applauding demonstrators. But Manhart calls one of the cops a “spiny piece of s---” before being led away to a police cruiser in the video.

Attempted robbery and insulting a police officer.

Neither the demonstrators nor the police decided to press charges against Manhart, but she did receive a campus trespass warning that bars her from campus activities, university spokesman Andy Clark told The Valdosta Daily Times.

Attempted robbery and insulting a police officer and trespassing now.

She said she doesn’t approve of Supreme Court rulings that protect flag trampling and flag burning as free speech under the First Amendment, according to the Daily Times.

Attempted robbery and insulting a police officer and trespassing and disrespecting SC rulings now.

Your thoughts?

She's just pulling self-promotion stunts. Likely looking for a career either as right-wing politician or as Fox News pundit. Too bad she also proved, incidentally, she doesn't give a shit about the laws and the Constitution of the US. What a sorry excuse for a citizen.

Comintern has arrived.

[Wisconsin9]

Was that a flag she owned?


So, attempted robbery.




Attempted robbery and insulting a police officer.


Attempted robbery and insulting a police officer and trespassing now.


Attempted robbery and insulting a police officer and trespassing and disrespecting SC rulings now.


She's just pulling self-promotion stunts. Likely looking for a career either as right-wing politician or as Fox News pundit. Too bad she also proved, incidentally, she doesn't give a shit about the laws and the Constitution of the US. What a sorry excuse for a citizen.

Comintern has arrived.

What the fuck does that even mean in this context?

[Risottia]

Was that a flag she owned?


So, attempted robbery.




Attempted robbery and insulting a police officer.


Attempted robbery and insulting a police officer and trespassing now.


Attempted robbery and insulting a police officer and trespassing and disrespecting SC rulings now.


She's just pulling self-promotion stunts. Likely looking for a career either as right-wing politician or as Fox News pundit. Too bad she also proved, incidentally, she doesn't give a shit about the laws and the Constitution of the US. What a sorry excuse for a citizen.

Comintern has arrived.

If you mean that respecting the laws and rulings that are direct emanation of the democratic will of the US citizens as determined through free and fair elections means "Comintern", you've made a great propaganda move for Comintern.

[Teemant]

Comintern has arrived.

If you mean that respecting the laws and rulings that are direct emanation of the democratic will of the US citizens as determined through free and fair elections means "Comintern", you've made a great propaganda move for Comintern.

I mean purpose of your post is (seems to be) to make things look worse than they are.

[Wisconsin9]

If you mean that respecting the laws and rulings that are direct emanation of the democratic will of the US citizens as determined through free and fair elections means "Comintern", you've made a great propaganda move for Comintern.

I mean purpose of your post is (seems to be) to make things look worse than they are.

Except she did try and steal the flag, she did disrespect a police officer, if she's been on the campus since she was ordered to stay off then she did trespass, and she did disrespect the Supreme Court rulings. I don't have any particular problem with the disrespect, but every single one of those things is an objective fact. Saying those things about the situation can't make it looks worse than it actually is because that's the way things actually are.

[Teemant]

I mean purpose of your post is (seems to be) to make things look worse than they are.

Except she did try and steal the flag, she did disrespect a police officer, if she's been on the campus since she was ordered to stay off then she did trespass, and she did disrespect the Supreme Court rulings. I don't have any particular problem with the disrespect, but every single one of those things is an objective fact. Saying those things about the situation can't make it looks worse than it actually is because that's the way things actually are.

We have to take into consideration that desecration of flag is something that can cause emotions (especially among patriotic persons). And is flag desecration something that intelligent people do? I thought better of people who study in University.

[AiliailiA]

If you mean that respecting the laws and rulings that are direct emanation of the democratic will of the US citizens as determined through free and fair elections means "Comintern", you've made a great propaganda move for Comintern.

I mean purpose of your post is (seems to be) to make things look worse than they are.

Trespass is an exaggeration. Disrespecting the police and disrespecting the constitution shouldn't be crimes. But there's still the robbery. She wasn't entirely innocent was she?

And after all, the police didn't charge her. Seems all rather fair to me.

[Wisconsin9]

Except she did try and steal the flag, she did disrespect a police officer, if she's been on the campus since she was ordered to stay off then she did trespass, and she did disrespect the Supreme Court rulings. I don't have any particular problem with the disrespect, but every single one of those things is an objective fact. Saying those things about the situation can't make it looks worse than it actually is because that's the way things actually are.

We have to take into consideration that desecration of flag is something that can cause emotions (especially among patriotic persons). And is flag desecration something that intelligent people do? I thought better of people who study in University.

So what if it can cause emotions? One of the things that mature people are supposed to do is not let their emotions get the best of them. If you punch someone because you called your mother a whore, it's still battery, and even if it is only stupid people who desecrate flags (which I very much doubt) it doesn't matter because as far as I'm aware there's no law on the books saying that idiots are exempt from legal protections.

[Hekarys]

Well the dumbass punks were breaking the law
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-201 ... sec700.htm

That USC is out of date, and is overruled by the supreme court ruling in Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397 (1989), and again in U.S. v. Eichman, 496 U.S. 310 in (1990); wherein the supreme court established that any law prohibiting people from doing what they want with the flag is unconstitutional.

[Hekarys]

The overall question of whether one "should" deface their countries flag is easily answered by the idea that nationalism is a deep-rooted societal disease.

Patriotism/nationalism are the same things. I believe it was Voltaire who said "To be a good patriot, one must make an enemy out of the rest of the world"
And indeed, in an era where globalism is so widespread, and the needs of all the various nations are so intertwined; we cannot afford to perpetuate the mentality of "Us vs. Them".

The very act of drawing lines on a map and saying "this is mine and that's yours" is an outdated and clannish practice that was done over ideological and theological disputes all the way back into the dark ages.

Now that we have populated the earth to the extent that we have, and established such a vast network of trade, information, and infrastructure, we need to think about the inherent inequity that is caused by taking the world we all live on and arbitrarily putting up walls and fences and borders to separate people based off of short-sighted , egotistical, and inherently flawed thinking.

Patriotism is outdated and cumbersome to the evolution of the social paradigm.

Abide by simple tenants.

If an action does not affect the life and well-being of you or someone else, it does not concern you, and therefore it is not your right to interfere.

[Myrensis]

We have to take into consideration that desecration of flag is something that can cause emotions (especially among patriotic persons). And is flag desecration something that intelligent people do? I thought better of people who study in University.

So what if it can cause emotions? One of the things that mature people are supposed to do is not let their emotions get the best of them. If you punch someone because you called your mother a whore, it's still battery, and even if it is only stupid people who desecrate flags (which I very much doubt) it doesn't matter because as far as I'm aware there's no law on the books saying that idiots are exempt from legal protections.

Judging from one of the articles I saw there are more than enough idiots to go around in this case. The protesters blithering about their 'government slave masters' and apparently the Air Force girl saying that they should go trample on a white person if they were upset, not our precious and holy flag.

[Keyboard Warriors]

Because there is no theft problem. Calling this theft as if she should be charged and convicted with theft is blowing this incident way out of proportion.

She took something that did not belong to her.

When she was asked by the rightful owners to give it back, she refused to do so.

When asked by campus security to give it back, she continued to refuse to do so.

When campus security attempted to take it from her in order to return it to the rightful owners, she resisted and struggled.

That's not just theft, that's brazen theft.

She picked something up off the ground that was being stomped on like a piece of trash. She was asked to hand it back so they could continue to use it in their protest. She refused because she didn't want to see it damaged. That's remarkably different to her stealing the flag because she wanted to sell it or keep it or any of the usual reasons which people commit theft for. If she committed a crime, it was disobeying a lawful order. I'm a little confused as to why we can't discuss the issue as a whole and not break down each of her actions into specific crimes, because doing that plays up the entire issue much more than what it needs to be. I'm sure she and the protesters jostled with each other as well, yet nobody is crying assault?

[AiliailiA]

Abide by simple tenants.

Simple tenants are the good sort. Never, and I mean never, let a lawyer be your tenant.

[Myrensis]

She picked something up off the ground that was being stomped on like a piece of trash. She was asked to hand it back so they could continue to use it in their protest. She refused because she didn't want to see it damaged. That's remarkably different to her stealing the flag because she wanted to sell it or keep it or any of the usual reasons which people commit theft for. If she committed a crime, it was disobeying a lawful order. I'm a little confused as to why we can't discuss the issue as a whole and not break down each of her actions into specific crimes, because doing that plays up the entire issue much more than what it needs to be. I'm sure she and the protesters jostled with each other as well, yet nobody is crying assault?

No, it's not. She took something that didn't belong to her. She was told to give it back. She refused.

But hey, if you feel that way can I have your address? I'll steal all the stuff from your house. Not out of greed or any of the "usual reasons", but only because I truly want to help you understand that dangers of materialism. You respect that right, and won't get bogged down on the issue of 'specific crimes'?

[Zakuvia]

If we're going to get litigious about this, then let's let the other side have a shot. The flag is considered a living symbol of the country it represents, as the US Flag Code states. Subsection 8 is as follows:

No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.
... j.No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing....

In stomping on the flag, this is considered disrespect, and some might argue desecration. In taking the flag, which was no longer being used for its intended purpose (display) and was being infringed upon for the purpose of disrespect (stomping on an improperly disposed of burning flag), the AF vet was breaking up an illegal public disturbance. Not violating MUH RITES.

Don't get me wrong, I loathe Faux News' jingoism as much as the next free thinker, but this leftist cherry picking really gets to me. If you want people to obey the law, then please obey the law, don't decide that you get to be above it and look down on those who try to enforce it as fascists.

[Risottia]

If you mean that respecting the laws and rulings that are direct emanation of the democratic will of the US citizens as determined through free and fair elections means "Comintern", you've made a great propaganda move for Comintern.

I mean purpose of your post is (seems to be) to make things look worse than they are.

I don't see how trying and stealing an item by wrestling it from the hands of the legitimate owner is anything but attempting a robbery, just to begin with.

[Imperializt Russia]

See, this is what happened when you left the empire. Rather than having her Maj' to put your sense of nationalism into, you were left with just a damned flag. And this is where you end up.

Wouldn't have happened with a monarch because we don't really care about our flag.