Bible citations on military gun sights

[Krazniastan]

The attacks on the World Trade Centre were appalling. The people who perpetrated it were / are mass murderers. They should be brought to account.

That does not justify invading two countries and killing many times the number of victims of 11 September 2001.

Then what would you have done?

Turned the other cheek? What would you have done after they had kicked that one?

We try and use precision and our technology to do everything we can to avoid killing civilians, but innocent people will still get killed. Its war. Thats just how it is.

I think it speaks volumes that we are trying to rebuild a nation which harbored and supported those who committed such an atrocity against us. And that we are continuing to try when the rest of the world thinks we should just give up and go home.

As for Iraq, everyone in the UN needs to take a bite of that shit sandwich o blame. . . .

[The Parkus Empire]

The government of Afghanistan was effectively the Taliban, so the attack was definitely more of a declaration of war than a mere incident of crime. Not that that justifies the invasion of Iraq.

[Maurepas]

The attacks on the World Trade Centre were appalling. The people who perpetrated it were / are mass murderers. They should be brought to account.

That does not justify invading two countries and killing many times the number of victims of 11 September 2001.

Then what would you have done?

Turned the other cheek? What would you have done after they had kicked that one?

Well, rather than attempt to go on a "Nationbuilding Safari", doomed to failure, I think sending in Special Forces, mightve been a smart move...

[Krazniastan]

Well, rather than attempt to go on a "Nationbuilding Safari", doomed to failure, I think sending in Special Forces, mightve been a smart move...

And far more people would have been killed in the resulting collapse of what little government, law, order and infrastructure was there.

I'd also like to point out that most of these deaths are actually the result of the other side's actions, 'tactics', and method of warfare.

[Maurepas]

Well, rather than attempt to go on a "Nationbuilding Safari", doomed to failure, I think sending in Special Forces, mightve been a smart move...

And far more people would have been killed in the resulting collapse of what little government, law, order and infrastructure was there.

I'd also like to point out that most of these deaths are actually the result of the other side's actions, 'tactics', and method of warfare.

Most likely, considering it was going to happen regardless, but, it wouldve worked out better on our end...

[The Parkus Empire]

Most likely, considering it was going to happen regardless, but, it wouldve worked out better on our end...

You think SF could take-out the whole Taliban on its own?

[Maurepas]

Most likely, considering it was going to happen regardless, but, it wouldve worked out better on our end...

You think SF could take-out the whole Taliban on its own?

Who said anything about the Taliban? I was talking about Al-Qaeda...

[Krazniastan]

Most likely, considering it was going to happen regardless, but, it wouldve worked out better on our end...

You think SF could take-out the whole Taliban on its own?

SF did take out the Taliban. They worked with the Northern Alliance guys and provided them with access to our air power.

They also participated in the most recent mounted calvary charge in history. Really an interesting story.

[Krazniastan]

Most likely, considering it was going to happen regardless, but, it wouldve worked out better on our end...

Dollars to doughnuts, if we had gone that route, the rest of the world would be calling us heartless bastards and demanding us to intervene and rebuild their shattered nation.

Funny how the world works, eh?

[Maurepas]

Most likely, considering it was going to happen regardless, but, it wouldve worked out better on our end...

Dollars to doughnuts, if we had gone that route, the rest of the world would be calling us heartless bastards and demanding us to intervene and rebuild their shattered nation.

Funny how the world works, eh?

And...they arent doing that now? Since they are going to do that, regardless, why not do what costs us the least?

[Tubbsalot]

Funny how the world works, eh?

People call you heartless for destroying nations? That doesn't sound very strange to me, but if you say so.

[Krazniastan]

Funny how the world works, eh?

People call you heartless for destroying nations? That doesn't sound very strange to me, but if you say so.

We stay and try and rebuild it, rest of the world wants us to leave before its done.

We smash it to bits, and go home, rest of the world wants us to go and fix it.

Its a Catch 22. We'd be damned either way.

And...they arent doing that now? Since they are going to do that, regardless, why not do what costs us the least?

Cause the rest of the world would probably be even more pissed that we used a couple of devices from the back of the vault to turn that country into the worlds largest outdoor glass work of art?

[Meoton]

I'm a christian.
I'm enlisting in the United States Marine Corp.
and do i want a rifle scope with biblical verses on it? yes.
i want to be reminded of why i am fighting, i want to be reminded that the freedoms i enjoy in my country (particularly the freedom of religion) are freedoms that i will fight, and if God deems it, die for. it New Zealand does not want the inscriptions on the scopes, that is fine. but i applaud the company that makes them for sticking to their beliefs and putting them on their product. i hope i get a "Holy" scope on my rifle.OORAH!!!

As a marine, you are going to Afghanistan to perform the mission the President and the nation has given to you. Which is currently to keep the peace, protect the fledgling democracy we helped to create, to strike at radical elements (taliban and al qaeda), and spread good will to win the hearts and minds of the people.
YOU ARE NOT THERE ON A MISSION FROM GOD!
You are not there on a crusade to conquer, convert, or kill non-believers.
You are not there in any capacity to help bring on the End Times.
Christian Bible verses being used by foreign troops in a muslim country will not help the mission as given by the U.S. Government. If you are unable to act out these orders as given to you for religious reasons, you should as for a deferment or discharge based on your religious concerns. UNDERSTOOD?!!

[The Parkus Empire]

Who said anything about the Taliban? I was talking about Al-Qaeda...

Same difference.

[Maurepas]

Who said anything about the Taliban? I was talking about Al-Qaeda...

Same difference.

In some ways yeah, but, its the difference between destroying Afghanistan's government and having to rebuild it, to going to get Osama, and the planners of 9/11, and then coming back home...

[Charlotte Ryberg]

I suppose it was subliminal messaging on the weapons. Clearly the weapons should just state what they really are, in my opinion.

[Cameroi]

christ must be turning over in his grave

[Tirovia]

Hey a monument. Interesting.

It should be a forum guideline though, to warn other posters when a link may include bad poetry.

Pretty cool, though.

And it really isn't the worst poetry out there. You ought to look up William Topaz McGonagal

He was faking it. I honestly believe he either knew exactly how bad he was and played up to it, or he set out to be bad. I think his biographical writings indicate that pretty strongly.

That said, his work is still funny as hell.

As for the article linked to, I'm not anti-religion or anti-atheism, but I am anti-intolerant-fanaticism*, and I see that on both sides of that particular persistent squabble. I also see the word 'freethinker' being used as a synonym for 'atheist', and yes, that does bug me a little. It's pompous and condescending in its implication that if I'm religious I can't also be a 'freethinker' and must necessarily be brainwashed into believing something that someone's told me I ought to believe.

There again, we are talking about the Freedom From Religion Foundation, which makes no bones about its primary mission, which is to oppose religion, rather than simply ensure equal rights for the non-religious (evidently there is some discrepancy somewhere). I get a very strong impression that, as far as the FFRF is concerned, there are only two available viewpoints - either anti-religious atheism or Christianity. This simple-minded viewpoint isn't uncommon against those who rail against 'religion' as a general concept: to them, it's not nearly so general as it might be to anyone else.

---
* Assume I'm already aware this is terribly ironic since, look, doesn't my being fanatically intolerant of intolerant fanaticism make me fanatically intolerant and therefore require that I disappear up my own ?

[Meoton]

Who said anything about the Taliban? I was talking about Al-Qaeda...

Same difference.

Taliban is an islamic fundamentalist militia from regions of Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Al qaeda is a terrorist organization that originally design to over throw the monarchy of Saudi Arabia and push out non-islamic influences. It is now a band of loosely connected terrorist organizations that support setting up islamic state and pushing out non-islamic influences. Kind of like how right wing christians in the U.S. want to establish a christian government and push out non-christian influences.

[Tirovia]

Not sure about that. Bible verses are usually given in moderately recognisable style, even when they're abbreviated as in this case. And it's worth considering that while America regularly denies that there's a religious element to its campaigns in these regions, the people it's fighting often seem to think otherwise. Afghans aren't all ignorant sheep-herders, and you might find that this reference is more recognisable than you think. What many of them don't have is Internet access, so if one of these sights finds its way into their hands, they might be unaware of the debate that's gone on here (and no doubt elsewhere), and it could be just the evidence they need to show their people that, look, the conflict does have a religious motivation.

Aside from being in hugely bad taste, as others have said, this does have the potential to serve as a propaganda tool for America's opponents.

Yes because NSG has all this power and influence.

I doubt very many people that don't participate on NSG know of the debates that happen on here.

I certainly didn't. But by the same token I didn't assume that the NSG forums would be the only place on the net that this debate would be going on. For 'here' read 'online' rather than 'on the NSG forums'.

[The Parkus Empire]

Who said anything about the Taliban? I was talking about Al-Qaeda...

Same difference.

Taliban is an islamic fundamentalist militia from regions of Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Al qaeda is a terrorist organization that originally design to over throw the monarchy of Saudi Arabia and push out non-islamic influences. It is now a band of loosely connected terrorist organizations that support setting up islamic state and pushing out non-islamic influences. Kind of like how right wing christians in the U.S. want to establish a christian government and push out non-christian influences.

Doesn't sound like the SF could singe-handedly annihilate Al-Qaeda, to me.

[Meoton]

There again, we are talking about the Freedom From Religion Foundation, which makes no bones about its primary mission, which is to oppose religion, rather than simply ensure equal rights for the non-religious (evidently there is some discrepancy somewhere). I get a very strong impression that, as far as the FFRF is concerned, there are only two available viewpoints - either anti-religious atheism or Christianity. This simple-minded viewpoint isn't uncommon against those who rail against 'religion' as a general concept: to them, it's not nearly so general as it might be to anyone else.

---
* Assume I'm already aware this is terribly ironic since, look, doesn't my being fanatically intolerant of intolerant fanaticism make me fanatically intolerant and therefore require that I disappear up my own ?

I have seen Ministers who are spokespersons for the Freedom From Religion Foundation.
Their primary goal is to keep religion out of government.
Why would a minister support the foundation? Because if a particularly powerful religious group gains undue influence of the government, they could impose their beliefs on others while restricting the beliefs of others.

[Tirovia]

I have seen Ministers who are spokespersons for the Freedom From Religion Foundation.
Their primary goal is to keep religion out of government.
Why would a minister support the foundation? Because if a particularly powerful religious group gains undue influence of the government, they could impose their beliefs on others while restricting the beliefs of others.

A noble enough mission, then, so long as militant atheism is also kept out of government: the religious have the right to believe as they will (preferably without being declared stupid/dangerous/mentally ill/whatever), as the atheistic have the right not to be troubled by the religion of others.

That said, that last does depend to some extent on the person's willingness not to be troubled by the mere existence of religion...

[Maurepas]

Who said anything about the Taliban? I was talking about Al-Qaeda...

Same difference.

Taliban is an islamic fundamentalist militia from regions of Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Al qaeda is a terrorist organization that originally design to over throw the monarchy of Saudi Arabia and push out non-islamic influences. It is now a band of loosely connected terrorist organizations that support setting up islamic state and pushing out non-islamic influences. Kind of like how right wing christians in the U.S. want to establish a christian government and push out non-christian influences.

Doesn't sound like the SF could singe-handedly annihilate Al-Qaeda, to me.

I was thinking more along the lines of get Al-Qaeda's leading members, come home, and impose stricter security...

[Meoton]

Who said anything about the Taliban? I was talking about Al-Qaeda...

Same difference.

Taliban is an islamic fundamentalist militia from regions of Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Al qaeda is a terrorist organization that originally design to over throw the monarchy of Saudi Arabia and push out non-islamic influences. It is now a band of loosely connected terrorist organizations that support setting up islamic state and pushing out non-islamic influences. Kind of like how right wing christians in the U.S. want to establish a christian government and push out non-christian influences.

Doesn't sound like the SF could singe-handedly annihilate Al-Qaeda, to me.

I was thinking more along the lines of get Al-Qaeda's leading members, come home, and impose stricter security...

Haven't you been watching the news. We kill the "insert enemy" number 2 guy in "insert nation" every other week. While I would like to see us take out the main guys, i.e. bin Laden, Zawahiri, Saif Saif al-Din al-Ansari al-Adel, etc..., to eliminate it's main organization, it is now a multi-headed beast. Many different groups have linked themselves to or taken up the name al qaeda. Only they and hopefully our intelligence organizations know where one starts and another begins.