Bible citations on military gun sights

[Callisdrun]

I'd personally be more in favour of Judges 1:19 - as best illustrated on this page and the following two. Mainly because it's so breathtakingly bizarre.

Seems to mostly involve the Israelites slaughtering people (except those with iron chariots, who they couldn't defeat).

[Enn]

I'd personally be more in favour of Judges 1:19 - as best illustrated on this page and the following two. Mainly because it's so breathtakingly bizarre.

Seems to mostly involve the Israelites slaughtering people (except those with iron chariots, who they couldn't defeat).

Not only that - an illustration that with the right weaponry, even God can't beat you. Slightly different message to the verses attached to the gun sights in question.

[UnitedStatesOfAmerica-]

Considering it is a private company, it can put what ever it wants on its products. If New Zealand is really offended they would stop buying the sites. Plenty of other nations would just snap up the orders that NZ doesn't get.
I doubt very much that people in Afghanistan who don't know english or christianity are gonna recognize the markings as referring to Bible verses. The only ones raising a stink about it are people who are probably white english speaking protestants.
NZ has the option of not buying more sights from the company.

It is odd that you put verses on a tool for killing however. They refer to the bringing of light. But when you use it on someone, all they see afterwards is darkness. So it is more apt that the weapons bring darkness, not light.

[Tirovia]

I doubt very much that people in Afghanistan who don't know english or christianity are gonna recognize the markings as referring to Bible verses.

Not sure about that. Bible verses are usually given in moderately recognisable style, even when they're abbreviated as in this case. And it's worth considering that while America regularly denies that there's a religious element to its campaigns in these regions, the people it's fighting often seem to think otherwise. Afghans aren't all ignorant sheep-herders, and you might find that this reference is more recognisable than you think. What many of them don't have is Internet access, so if one of these sights finds its way into their hands, they might be unaware of the debate that's gone on here (and no doubt elsewhere), and it could be just the evidence they need to show their people that, look, the conflict does have a religious motivation.

Aside from being in hugely bad taste, as others have said, this does have the potential to serve as a propaganda tool for America's opponents.

[Parthenon]

"There are no atheists in foxholes"

Psalms 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me.

- As quoted by Jackson in Saving Private Ryan

[Enn]

"There are no atheists in foxholes"

Oh really?

[Pope Joan]

Brings a whole new meaning to "I come not to spread peace but to bring a sword."

The sword was his holy word.

maybe, but Jesus knew that his sword, whatever it was, would wreak holy hell of an unpleasant sort.

(Matthew 10:34) - "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35"For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household."

Matthew 10:21 (King James Version)

21And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

I think Jesus is foreseeing persecution against believers by family members but it still an unpleasant thought.

My only real concern with the inscriptions is that they might endanger troops in the mideast by causing ill feeling among local citizens and allies.

[Tagmatium]

It really does sound pretty sinister, does this.

[NERVUN]

"There are no atheists in foxholes"

Psalms 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me.

- As quoted by Jackson in Saving Private Ryan

Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. Mathew 26:52
You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. Matthew 5:38-42
But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you. Luke 6:27-31

[Pope Joan]

"There are no atheists in foxholes"

Psalms 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me.

- As quoted by Jackson in Saving Private Ryan

Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. Mathew 26:52
You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. Matthew 5:38-42
But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you. Luke 6:27-31

I do agree that it is good teaching to honor the words of Jesus above those of the Old Testament.

But my brother in law disagrees with me (sometimes it feels like when a bad hamburger disagrees with me) and says that every bible verse is equal to every other one.

[NERVUN]

"There are no atheists in foxholes"

Psalms 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me.

- As quoted by Jackson in Saving Private Ryan

Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. Mathew 26:52
You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. Matthew 5:38-42
But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you. Luke 6:27-31

I do agree that it is good teaching to honor the words of Jesus above those of the Old Testament.

But my brother in law disagrees with me (sometimes it feels like when a bad hamburger disagrees with me) and says that every bible verse is equal to every other one.

I just find it very repugnant, especially as Jesus' views on the subject are so well know, but to put His words on something meant to help kill...

[Mean Feat]

"There are no atheists in foxholes"

Oh really?

Hey a monument. Interesting.

It should be a forum guideline though, to warn other posters when a link may include bad poetry.

[Tagmatium]

Hey a monument. Interesting.

It should be a forum guideline though, to warn other posters when a link may include bad poetry.

Pretty cool, though.

And it really isn't the worst poetry out there. You ought to look up William Topaz McGonagal

[Mean Feat]

Hey a monument. Interesting.

It should be a forum guideline though, to warn other posters when a link may include bad poetry.

Pretty cool, though.

And it really isn't the worst poetry out there. You ought to look up William Topaz McGonagal

Some days I get up and know the whole day is going to be awful, just by the elusive scent of poetry in the air. I can't stand poetry. It's worse than wet dogs.

[Mean Feat]

I doubt very much that people in Afghanistan who don't know english or christianity are gonna recognize the markings as referring to Bible verses.

Not sure about that. Bible verses are usually given in moderately recognisable style, even when they're abbreviated as in this case. And it's worth considering that while America regularly denies that there's a religious element to its campaigns in these regions, the people it's fighting often seem to think otherwise. Afghans aren't all ignorant sheep-herders, and you might find that this reference is more recognisable than you think. What many of them don't have is Internet access, so if one of these sights finds its way into their hands, they might be unaware of the debate that's gone on here (and no doubt elsewhere), and it could be just the evidence they need to show their people that, look, the conflict does have a religious motivation.

Aside from being in hugely bad taste, as others have said, this does have the potential to serve as a propaganda tool for America's opponents.

Well put.

The US military which also uses them should retrofit them to take out the citations.

[Offworlders]

Wixom, eh?

I'd have never guessed.

[Allbeama]

I think it should not be allowed to continue. The government should not purchase these scopes unless they purchase ones that don't preach the words of the Nazarene. It's one thing for a private company to sell them to citizens as they are, but to sell them to the government, and then the government issues them to military personnel? No, that is against separation of Church and State to me. Of course no one complained before, because the US is not the secular nation it was meant to be.

[Chezovolvia]

"There are no atheists in foxholes"

Psalms 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me.

- As quoted by Jackson in Saving Private Ryan

Ever heard of The Soviet Union? AKA the atheist country with an army larger than ours?

It's nationalism.

[Kingdom Brittania]

I beg to disagree. To put the "Word of God" to killing weapons and machines is a disgrace.

[Tagmatium]

Ever heard of The Soviet Union? AKA the atheist country with an army larger than ours?

It's nationalism.

Yeah, but unless you're using a time-machine to talk to us, they're long gone.

And it's not just on US military equipment, but those sold to other armies too, including the British army. That's hardly nationalism, is it?

[Allbeama]

Hey a monument. Interesting.

It should be a forum guideline though, to warn other posters when a link may include bad poetry.

Pretty cool, though.

And it really isn't the worst poetry out there. You ought to look up William Topaz McGonagal

Some days I get up and know the whole day is going to be awful, just by the elusive scent of poetry in the air. I can't stand poetry. It's worse than wet dogs.

You must hate songs too.

[Swazderland]

very bad move its going turning the whole thing into a crusade when the extremists find out christians and muslims will not be too happy about citations from the bible being on weapons of all things.

[Allbeama]

very bad move its going turning the whole thing into a crusade when the extremists find out christians and muslims will not be too happy about citations from the bible being on weapons of all things.

I bet many Christians know. The right wing kind, that think it's just fine to put the "Word of God" on the weapons that "defend our nation from the terrorist scum".(read any brown people with oil resources)

[Mean Feat]

Ever heard of The Soviet Union? AKA the atheist country with an army larger than ours?

It's nationalism.

And it's not just on US military equipment, but those sold to other armies too, including the British army. That's hardly nationalism, is it?

The "resort to religion" of the cold war (Communism is atheist, god is good, therefore Communism bad) may well be why religious fundamentalists have disproportionate influence in the States to this day.

Those Soviets did real atheists no favors.

[Mean Feat]

I think it should not be allowed to continue. The government should not purchase these scopes unless they purchase ones that don't preach the words of the Nazarene. It's one thing for a private company to sell them to citizens as they are, but to sell them to the government, and then the government issues them to military personnel? No, that is against separation of Church and State to me. Of course no one complained before, because the US is not the secular nation it was meant to be.

I have an idea. Militaries wishing to upgrade to gun sights without citations could sell the sights as collector's items in the US private gun market. Properly released onto the market, they could fetch quite a price as the last ever item of equipment issued to the US military to bear a biblical citation. Surely there would be US buyers for a piece of "holy gun" ... particularly if it came with documents attesting to its use in killing Muslims.