Christian Discussion Thread V

[Lleu llaw Gyffes]

I heard of Polynesian Islands where the only animals are pigs, so Leviticus says thou shalt not eat pig, pig, and pig, thou shalt eat pig, pig and pig.

That's actually really deep.

I heard of Eskimo translations where "Ecce agnus Dei" becomes "Behold the seal-pup of God."

Implying that's an incorrect translation?

No. Implying that there are no lambs at the North Pole, so there is no word for lamb; so the Translators do the best they can with the words available.

[Aelex]

Because that is incorrect. The Modern translations are not translations of a translation of a translation. They're all translated from the original Greek and Hebrew manuscripts.

The modern are indeed; but when the very concept of Sola Scriptura emerged, there were no english bible directly translated from hebrew/greek but only from french/latin.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

That's actually really deep.

Implying that's an incorrect translation?

No. Implying that there are no lambs at the North Pole, so there is no word for lamb; so the Translators do the best they can with the words available.

I am the biscuits of God "southern vegetarian commune"

[Pope Joan]

That's actually really deep.

Implying that's an incorrect translation?

No. Implying that there are no lambs at the North Pole, so there is no word for lamb; so the Translators do the best they can with the words available.

I hear that the "fires of Hell" are an ineffective threat to the Inuit, so they talk about the freezing blizzards of Hell instead,

[The Third Nova Terra of Scrin]

No. Implying that there are no lambs at the North Pole, so there is no word for lamb; so the Translators do the best they can with the words available.

I hear that the "fires of Hell" are an ineffective threat to the Inuit, so they talk about the freezing blizzards of Hell instead,

Cultural conventions can lead to interesting things sometimes.

Because that is incorrect. The Modern translations are not translations of a translation of a translation. They're all translated from the original Greek and Hebrew manuscripts.

The modern are indeed; but when the very concept of Sola Scriptura emerged, there were no english bible directly translated from hebrew/greek but only from french/latin.

That's why the most accurate Biblical translations today are translated from the original Greek and Hebrew manuscripts to English, not to English from French or from Korean to English. It could be that it's more of a matter of accessibility and resources, the expertise to translate from the original Greek or Hebrew is very difficult to access in the 15th, 16th or 17th century whatever. Heck, even the early Church Fathers don't know Hebrew.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

No. Implying that there are no lambs at the North Pole, so there is no word for lamb; so the Translators do the best they can with the words available.

I hear that the "fires of Hell" are an ineffective threat to the Inuit, so they talk about the freezing blizzards of Hell instead,

The fires of hell are an ineffective threat to modern humanity

[Menassa]

Heck, even the early Church Fathers don't know Hebrew.

That's nice...

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Heck, even the early Church Fathers don't know Hebrew.

That's nice...

It's also incorrect. Some didn't. Paul likely did, as did Mathew

[Menassa]

That's nice...

It's also incorrect. Some didn't. Paul likely did, as did Mathew

I thought he was talking about Like Jerome and Tertullian when he said 'Church Father' and while Paul may have known Hebrew, I don't think that it was his native language... the work that he writes in Greek seems more indicative of that being his native language.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

It's also incorrect. Some didn't. Paul likely did, as did Mathew

I thought he was talking about Like Jerome and Tertullian when he said 'Church Father' and while Paul may have known Hebrew, I don't think that it was his native language... the work that he writes in Greek seems more indicative of that being his native language.

The Early church wrote in Koine because it was a lingua Franca. But Paul was a hellenized jew, that is true. However he was also a Pharisee which suggests he would know Hebrew

[Menassa]

I thought he was talking about Like Jerome and Tertullian when he said 'Church Father' and while Paul may have known Hebrew, I don't think that it was his native language... the work that he writes in Greek seems more indicative of that being his native language.

The Early church wrote in Koine because it was a lingua Franca. But Paul was a hellenized jew, that is true. However he was also a Pharisee which suggests he would know Hebrew

I mean sure, he can claim that he was a Pharisee but I don't buy it. Jerome doesn't even buy that he was born in Tarsus. His knowledge of Greek is similar to our knowledge of English, and while I do know Biblical Hebrew I can't say that I could write dissertations and epistles and sermons on the scale of Paul.

[Efraim-Judah]

I thought he was talking about Like Jerome and Tertullian when he said 'Church Father' and while Paul may have known Hebrew, I don't think that it was his native language... the work that he writes in Greek seems more indicative of that being his native language.

The Early church wrote in Koine because it was a lingua Franca. But Paul was a hellenized jew, that is true. However he was also a Pharisee which suggests he would know Hebrew

Why is it that the Notzraim used the Hebrew originals? The so called 'early church' wasn't so early but originated much after the death of Messiah and Peter!

[Menassa]

The Early church wrote in Koine because it was a lingua Franca. But Paul was a hellenized jew, that is true. However he was also a Pharisee which suggests he would know Hebrew

Why is it that the Notzraim used the Hebrew originals? The so called 'early church' wasn't so early but originated much after the death of Messiah and Peter!

You can like source that right? Because I mean the closest to original copies of Paul and the Gospels we have are in Greek.

[The Third Nova Terra of Scrin]

It's also incorrect. Some didn't. Paul likely did, as did Mathew

I thought he was talking about Like Jerome and Tertullian when he said 'Church Father' and while Paul may have known Hebrew, I don't think that it was his native language... the work that he writes in Greek seems more indicative of that being his native language.

Yes, Menassa is right in my definitions. When I said "Church Fathers", I had Tertullian and Jerome certainly in mind, not Matthew and Paul and because consensus categorizes Tertullian and Jerome as more of "Church Father" dudes and Matthew and Paul as more like "Apostles". Not aware that Tarsonis Survivors have a different definition of "Church Fathers". I'll not debate you guys on Paul's knowledge of Hebrew though.

I hear that the "fires of Hell" are an ineffective threat to the Inuit, so they talk about the freezing blizzards of Hell instead,

The fires of hell are an ineffective threat to modern humanity

Certainly, that's why I believe Hell is more than physical fire. Christianity is not a religion established based on simple human fear and like, or reward and punishment. It's much more than that.

[Menassa]

I thought he was talking about Like Jerome and Tertullian when he said 'Church Father' and while Paul may have known Hebrew, I don't think that it was his native language... the work that he writes in Greek seems more indicative of that being his native language.

Yes, Menassa is right in my definitions. When I said "Church Fathers", I had Tertullian and Jerome certainly in mind, not Matthew and Paul and because consensus categorizes Tertullian and Jerome as more of "Church Father" dudes and Matthew and Paul as more like "Apostles". Not aware that Tarsonis Survivors have a different definition of "Church Fathers". I'll not debate you guys on Paul's knowledge of Hebrew though.

I'm not asserting that he didn't know Hebrew, simply that it wasn't his mother tongue.

[The Third Nova Terra of Scrin]

Yes, Menassa is right in my definitions. When I said "Church Fathers", I had Tertullian and Jerome certainly in mind, not Matthew and Paul and because consensus categorizes Tertullian and Jerome as more of "Church Father" dudes and Matthew and Paul as more like "Apostles". Not aware that Tarsonis Survivors have a different definition of "Church Fathers". I'll not debate you guys on Paul's knowledge of Hebrew though.

I'm not asserting that he didn't know Hebrew, simply that it wasn't his mother tongue.

I just did not defined Paul as an early Church Father.

[Menassa]

I'm not asserting that he didn't know Hebrew, simply that it wasn't his mother tongue.

I just did not defined Paul as an early Church Father.

Yeah neither would I...

[Tarsonis Survivors]

I thought he was talking about Like Jerome and Tertullian when he said 'Church Father' and while Paul may have known Hebrew, I don't think that it was his native language... the work that he writes in Greek seems more indicative of that being his native language.

Yes, Menassa is right in my definitions. When I said "Church Fathers", I had Tertullian and Jerome certainly in mind, not Matthew and Paul and because consensus categorizes Tertullian and Jerome as more of "Church Father" dudes and Matthew and Paul as more like "Apostles". Not aware that Tarsonis Survivors have a different definition of "Church Fathers". I'll not debate you guys on Paul's knowledge of Hebrew though.

The fires of hell are an ineffective threat to modern humanity

Certainly, that's why I believe Hell is more than physical fire. Christianity is not a religion established based on simple human fear and like, or reward and punishment. It's much more than that.

Agreed, hell is an interesting concept.

As for the church fathers I would consider the Apostles Church fathers as well.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

The Early church wrote in Koine because it was a lingua Franca. But Paul was a hellenized jew, that is true. However he was also a Pharisee which suggests he would know Hebrew

Why is it that the Notzraim used the Hebrew originals? The so called 'early church' wasn't so early but originated much after the death of Messiah and Peter!

Because Christianity is a lie based on pagan myths and pagan appropriation of Jewish literature. Truly, Ciaphas served the lord.

[Benuty]

The Early church wrote in Koine because it was a lingua Franca. But Paul was a hellenized jew, that is true. However he was also a Pharisee which suggests he would know Hebrew

Why is it that the Notzraim used the Hebrew originals? The so called 'early church' wasn't so early but originated much after the death of Messiah and Peter!

This post is so bloated it could kill a leech.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Why is it that the Notzraim used the Hebrew originals? The so called 'early church' wasn't so early but originated much after the death of Messiah and Peter!

This post is so bloated it could kill a leech.

It's fundamentally incorrect, as there were no Hebrew originals. We don't actually know if Jesus could read, and we do know that Peter was illiterate.

[Coulee Croche]

I just did not defined Paul as an early Church Father.

By defenition they are de facto Church Fathers but we do not usually call them that.
The Catholic definition:

"The Fathers of the Church are so called because of their leadership in the early Church, especially in defending, expounding, and developing Catholic doctrines"
[...]
"The Church demands four major characteristics to be exhibited in the life and works of an early Church leader if he is to be considered a Father of the Church. These are antiquity, meaning that he lived before the eighth century (the death of St. John Damascene [cir. A.D. 750] is generally regarded as the close of the age of the Fathers); doctrinal orthodoxy; personal sanctity;[b] and approval by the Church."

The Apsotles do not need the Churches approval since they are Apostles. They are also Doctrinally Sound and they spread the Gospel. [b]So by defenition (Catholic) they are Church Fathers but they arent usually called Church Fathers

Im sorry if this is way to much for a simple answer lol

[Constaniana]

I hear that the "fires of Hell" are an ineffective threat to the Inuit, so they talk about the freezing blizzards of Hell instead,

The fires of hell are an ineffective threat to modern humanity

How about the lack of signal in Hell?

[Lleu llaw Gyffes]

Yes, Menassa is right in my definitions. When I said "Church Fathers", I had Tertullian and Jerome certainly in mind, not Matthew and Paul and because consensus categorizes Tertullian and Jerome as more of "Church Father" dudes and Matthew and Paul as more like "Apostles". Not aware that Tarsonis Survivors have a different definition of "Church Fathers". I'll not debate you guys on Paul's knowledge of Hebrew though.

I'm not asserting that he didn't know Hebrew, simply that it wasn't his mother tongue.

Hebrew wasn't anybody's mother tongue. In Israel, they spoke Aramaic, Pharisees and Priests had to go to school to learn Hebrew. Compare Shakespeare, Chaucer with modern English, that is close to the difference between Hebrew and Aramaic.

[Menassa]

I'm not asserting that he didn't know Hebrew, simply that it wasn't his mother tongue.

Hebrew wasn't anybody's mother tongue. In Israel, they spoke Aramaic, Pharisees and Priests had to go to school to learn Hebrew. Compare Shakespeare, Chaucer with modern English, that is close to the difference between Hebrew and Aramaic.

Yeah, no the Pharisees probably had Hebrew as their mother tounge seeing as how the portion of the Talmud they penned was in Hebrew.