Christian Discussion Thread V

[Coulee Croche]

Because they chose to be there, Hell is a choice. The people in Hell don't want God.

Bullshit.

People who have never heard of and accepted your God will go to Hell. I wouldn't want to go to Hell, if I thought it existed; I'd just like some indication it does.

Nept is Catholic and no we dont believe that those who have never heard of Christ are going to hell through no fault of their own.

[Benuty]

Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven.

Honestly, I might be able to handle eternal torment, since it involves being around some of the most brilliant, interesting, non-Christian people to have ever existed.

I wouldn't call Pat Robertson an interesting or brilliant person especially since they might enslave you. I mean some people believe that fraudulent televangelist is actually the Anti-Christ. So who I am to deny that?

[Cannabis Islands]

Bullshit.

People who have never heard of and accepted your God will go to Hell. I wouldn't want to go to Hell, if I thought it existed; I'd just like some indication it does.

Nept is Catholic and no we dont believe that those who have never heard of Christ are going to hell through no fault of their own.

There was some controversy about this, in the Catholic Church in the Catholic Church. Pope Pius XII really came down hard on Fr. Feeney, A Priest that basically said that all non-Catholics are going to hell. There's even some debate among the traditionalist Catholic community. I was of the mind that those who never heard of Christ had a chance, but those who did hear the "truth", and rejected it, would be going to hell.

[Coulee Croche]

Nept is Catholic and no we dont believe that those who have never heard of Christ are going to hell through no fault of their own.

There was some controversy about this, in the Catholic Church in the Catholic Church. Pope Pius XII really came down hard on Fr. Feeney, A Priest that basically said that all non-Catholics are going to hell. There's even some debate among the traditionalist Catholic community. I was of the mind that those who never heard of Christ had a chance, but those who did hear the "truth", and rejected it, would be going to hell.

Ima just pull up the catechism

CCC 847
"This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation."

Dominus Iesus
For those who are not formally and visibly members of the Church, “salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church, but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit”;81 it has a relationship with the Church, which “according to the plan of the Father, has her origin in the mission of the Son and the Holy Spirit”.82
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html

[Cannabis Islands]

Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven.

Honestly, I might be able to handle eternal torment, since it involves being around some of the most brilliant, interesting, non-Christian people to have ever existed.

Shit, Pruss, according to the Catholic Church, you might have a chance at salvation because you have NOT been exposed to the "truth" of Catholicism. I'm the one that is going to have eternal separation from God.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

There was some controversy about this, in the Catholic Church in the Catholic Church. Pope Pius XII really came down hard on Fr. Feeney, A Priest that basically said that all non-Catholics are going to hell. There's even some debate among the traditionalist Catholic community. I was of the mind that those who never heard of Christ had a chance, but those who did hear the "truth", and rejected it, would be going to hell.

Ima just pull up the catechism

CCC 847
"This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation."

Dominus Iesus
For those who are not formally and visibly members of the Church, “salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church, but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit”;81 it has a relationship with the Church, which “according to the plan of the Father, has her origin in the mission of the Son and the Holy Spirit”.82
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html

See, I'd really like to know when Jesus or one of the apostles corroborated that.

[Cannabis Islands]

There was some controversy about this, in the Catholic Church in the Catholic Church. Pope Pius XII really came down hard on Fr. Feeney, A Priest that basically said that all non-Catholics are going to hell. There's even some debate among the traditionalist Catholic community. I was of the mind that those who never heard of Christ had a chance, but those who did hear the "truth", and rejected it, would be going to hell.

Ima just pull up the catechism

CCC 847
"This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation."

Dominus Iesus
For those who are not formally and visibly members of the Church, “salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church, but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit”;81 it has a relationship with the Church, which “according to the plan of the Father, has her origin in the mission of the Son and the Holy Spirit”.82
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html

I understand that, you can't ignore the fact that the some traditionalist community agree with Fr. Feeney. They just keep that opinion to themselves.

[The United Neptumousian Empire]

Because they chose to be there, Hell is a choice. The people in Hell don't want God.

Bullshit.
People who have never heard of and accepted your God will go to Hell. I wouldn't want to go to Hell, if I thought it existed; I'd just like some indication it does.

Your perspective is false.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Your perspective is false.

My perspective is that this metaphysical realm doesn't even exist, so, no, I don't think it is.

[Leikistan]

Actually I (and IFBs) are not Calvinists. As I stated earlier. There is no such teaching from the Bible as Irresistible Grace. If there was, Jusas Iscariot would not be in hell right now. If there truly was such thing as Irresistible Grace, then it would stand to reason that anyone who ever came in contact with Jesus Christ, the epitome of Grace, would have been saved.

[Menassa]

Actually I (and IFBs) are not Calvinists. As I stated earlier. There is no such teaching from the Bible as Irresistible Grace. If there was, Jusas Iscariot would not be in hell right now. If there truly was such thing as Irresistible Grace, then it would stand to reason that anyone who ever came in contact with Jesus Christ, the epitome of Grace, would have been saved.

So what you're saying is, people who have never heard the Gospel, will go to hell?

[Herskerstad]

Actually I (and IFBs) are not Calvinists. As I stated earlier. There is no such teaching from the Bible as Irresistible Grace. If there was, Jusas Iscariot would not be in hell right now. If there truly was such thing as Irresistible Grace, then it would stand to reason that anyone who ever came in contact with Jesus Christ, the epitome of Grace, would have been saved.

Pharisees anyone?

[Cannabis Islands]

Your perspective is false.

My perspective is that this metaphysical realm doesn't even exist, so, no, I don't think it is.

"It ain't easy, living free..."

"I'm on the highway to hell."

[Benuty]

My perspective is that this metaphysical realm doesn't even exist, so, no, I don't think it is.

"It ain't easy, living free..."

"I'm on the highway to hell."

Funny I didn't think anyone could drive in a place that melts vehicles.

[Cannabis Islands]

"It ain't easy, living free..."

"I'm on the highway to hell."

Funny I didn't think anyone could drive in a place that melts vehicles.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

"It ain't easy, living free..."

"I'm on the highway to hell."

Funny I didn't think anyone could drive in a place that melts vehicles.

The power of rock and roll, my friend.

[Cannabis Islands]

Funny I didn't think anyone could drive in a place that melts vehicles.

The power of rock and roll, my friend.

That's right. If hell means placing carnal pleasures over obeying God in this life, and eternal separation from him in the second life, then I choose hell.

[Coulee Croche]

See, I'd really like to know when Jesus or one of the apostles corroborated that.

Romans 2:12-16

12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

[The Flutterlands]

The power of rock and roll, my friend.

That's right. If hell means placing carnal pleasures over obeying God in this life, and eternal separation from him in the second life, then I choose hell.

My only argument is that the pleasures of heaven are suppose to be far greater than those in this life.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

See, I'd really like to know when Jesus or one of the apostles corroborated that.

Romans 2:12-16

12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

What about those who aren't aware being gay is a sin, or that having sex when you're not married by the State and a Christian priest/pastor is a sin? What if they don't follow those laws, unaware they're wrong in God's sight?

[Cannabis Islands]

That's right. If hell means placing carnal pleasures over obeying God in this life, and eternal separation from him in the second life, then I choose hell.

My only argument is that the pleasures of heaven are suppose to be far greater than those in this life.

I see no pleasures in being subordinate. And even less pleasure in singing praises.

[Coulee Croche]

I understand that, you can't ignore the fact that the some traditionalist community agree with Fr. Feeney. They just keep that opinion to themselves.

Well thats on them honestly, if they choose to ignore the Early Church Fathers and Church Doctors who have spoken on the issue, then theyre not as traditional as they think they are.

[Coulee Croche]

What about those who aren't aware being gay is a sin, or that having sex when you're not married by the State and a Christian priest/pastor is a sin? What if they don't follow those laws, unaware they're wrong in God's sight?

When non-christians marry its called natural marriage, they dont have to get married by the state or a Christian pastor/rev/priest. All that you said would fall under "invinsible ignorance" (baseing this off of my knowledge of the situation that is)

They are doing the best they can with what they have. Of course however, things like murder or rape are still big no-no's

[Aelex]

Honestly, I might be able to handle eternal torment, since it involves being around some of the most brilliant, interesting, non-Christian people to have ever existed.

Sorry but virtuous pagan.
You're more likely to end up with a lot of hipster, murderers and rapists. Now that you might enjoy their company is another debate...

[Cannabis Islands]

I understand that, you can't ignore the fact that the some traditionalist community agree with Fr. Feeney. They just keep that opinion to themselves.

Well thats on them honestly, if they choose to ignore the Early Church Fathers and Church Doctors who have spoken on the issue, then theyre not as traditional as they think they are.

Eh, since I'm a apostate, not my job to convince them.