Christian Discussion Thread V

[Diopolis]

You are, but the main reason is apostasy, not homosexuality(although that doesn't help, it's no worse than any other mortal sin. *looks sternly at contraceptive users*).

I really take no offense to that, since I believe hell is an illusion.

I know you don't, that's why I said it.

[Benuty]

That is a good thing to hear! Welcome back!

Should've stayed an Atheist, you'll find more truth there than here. Atheist speaking btw

Truth is subjective so it doesn't matter.

[Cannabis Islands]

I really take no offense to that, since I believe hell is an illusion.

I know you don't, that's why I said it.

And as I said before, The Catholic right should not be fighting self-declared apostates that reject the label "Catholic", and start going after the manifest heretics in your own church.

[Benuty]

I know you don't, that's why I said it.

And as I said before, The Catholic right should not be fighting so if self-declared apostates that reject the label "Catholic", and start going after the manifest heretics in your own church.

I doubt the heretics would ever gain such momentum as they used to.

[Egoman]

AKA you speak for Him.

Neptumousian believes what ever the Church of Rome tells him to believe. So, he believes that the church speaks for him.

Sorry if I am incorrect in my assessment of you, Neptumousian.

Whatever, it's still people babbling for our supreme overlord.

[Diopolis]

I know you don't, that's why I said it.

And as I said before, The Catholic right should not be fighting self-declared apostates that reject the label "Catholic", and start going after the manifest heretics in your own church.

I agree with you. We need to get our own house in order. Catholics bye-and-large are remarkably uneducated about the teachings of the church, and many don't even know how to pray.

[Benuty]

Neptumousian believes what ever the Church of Rome tells him to believe. So, he believes that the church speaks for him.

Sorry if I am incorrect in my assessment of you, Neptumousian.

Whatever, it's still people babbling for our supreme overlord.

Hardly, the people talking are clearly talking in a comprehensible way. So I don't see any children here.

[Cannabis Islands]

And as I said before, The Catholic right should not be fighting so if self-declared apostates that reject the label "Catholic", and start going after the manifest heretics in your own church.

I doubt the heretics would ever gain such momentum as they used to.

Really? There are shite loads of Priests in my area that are in one way or another that have said homosexual love/acts are not a sin.

[Byrrazan]

Should've stayed an Atheist, you'll find more truth there than here. Atheist speaking btw

Truth is subjective so it doesn't matter.

Funny you said that, considering you are apart of a community that may not be as hateful as Christians , but your Torah suggests that ye old testament be the truth. Same sex marriage, crawfish eating, and all that other shit you suggest is immoral isn't. Also it says your wife should sleep outside if she is on her period. Truth, subjectable? Bitch I just handed you the truth.

Call me a Commie or some shit but religion is the opium of the people.

[Cannabis Islands]

And as I said before, The Catholic right should not be fighting self-declared apostates that reject the label "Catholic", and start going after the manifest heretics in your own church.

I agree with you. We need to get our own house in order. Catholics bye-and-large are remarkably uneducated about the teachings of the church, and many don't even know how to pray.

I got catechesis that was shite when I was a young goinhg through RICA. I had a catechize myself when I "came home" to the Catholic Church. That's where I discovered people like Michael Voris and Father Heese. The future is on the Internet. That's were Catholics have to start evangelizing.

[Aelex]

Oh you...

As I've pointed out before, as far as my lot are concerned, 'to study history is to cease being Catholic'.

Any time you want to renounce the false doctrine of Papal primacy and return to the One True Church, we'd be happy to have you

Well, from what I've understood; though it's quite likely that my way of think is erroneous since I'm not specialized in the subject; the Orthodox just went full Pompée.
Both Constantinople and Rome tried to Jacobinise the most they could but because of multiple reasons (Islam, a major heresy which divided the whole region, political instability inside the Basileia Empire, etc) the Eastern Christian failed to accomplish what the Western managed to do.

[Diopolis]

I agree with you. We need to get our own house in order. Catholics bye-and-large are remarkably uneducated about the teachings of the church, and many don't even know how to pray.

I got catechesis that was shite when I was a young goinhg through RICA. I had a catechize myself when I "came home" to the Catholic Church. That's where I discovered people like Michael Voris and Father Heese. The future is on the Internet. That's were Catholics have to start evangelizing.

Yeah, shitty religious instruction definitely plagues Catholic education. Catholics need to look inward and clean house. And maybe then they'll be able to fix the problems the church is running into.

[Cannabis Islands]

I got catechesis that was shite when I was a young goinhg through RICA. I had a catechize myself when I "came home" to the Catholic Church. That's where I discovered people like Michael Voris and Father Heese. The future is on the Internet. That's were Catholics have to start evangelizing.

Yeah, shitty religious instruction definitely plagues Catholic education. Catholics need to look inward and clean house.

But what is stopping the authorities in the church from doing so? Your Pope and other bishops are so concerned about getting me and others like me back in the flock, and have neglected their own sheep.

[Diopolis]

Yeah, shitty religious instruction definitely plagues Catholic education. Catholics need to look inward and clean house.

But what is stopping the authorities in the church from doing so? Your Pope and other bishops are so concerned about getting me and others like me back in the flock, and have neglected their own sheep.

That's definitely true, but the faithful also have an obligation to evangelize because non-Catholics are doomed to hell. People like you are a lost cause and should be ignored, obviously, but not all are.

[Cannabis Islands]

But what is stopping the authorities in the church from doing so? Your Pope and other bishops are so concerned about getting me and others like me back in the flock, and have neglected their own sheep.

That's definitely true, but the faithful also have an obligation to evangelize because non-Catholics are doomed to hell. People like you are a lost cause and should be ignored, obviously, but not all are.

I must say that before I "came home" to the Catholic Church, I embraced the gay identity. Just saying. But why does the church condemn homosexual acts while not reprimanding his excellency, Johan Bonny, who said that the church needs a ceremony to bless same-sex couples? I'm sure Pope Francis is aware of this, and a Bishop who makes a statement like this needs to be addressed.

[Diopolis]

That's definitely true, but the faithful also have an obligation to evangelize because non-Catholics are doomed to hell. People like you are a lost cause and should be ignored, obviously, but not all are.

I must say that before I "came home" to the Catholic Church, I embraced the gay identity. Just saying. But why does the church condemn homosexual acts while not reprimanding his excellency, Johan Bonny, who said that the church needs a ceremony to bless same-sex couples? I'm sure Pope Francis is aware of this, and a Bishop who makes a statement like this needs to be addressed.

I have no idea on that score.

[Herskerstad]

Well, it seems rather impossible to me for someone to notice that Protestantism was pulled out of thin air 1500 years after Christ founded the Church and not realize that Protestantism is invalid with just a little critical thought.

Depends how you define Protestantism. If you define it as a certain set of doctrines, then you're correct; I know of no Christian before the 1500s who denied free will, or went on record in favor of usury. But if you define it as non-Catholic Western Christians, then what about the Moravian Brethren? The Hussites? The Lollards? The Waldensians? And how do you define Catholicism? It's practices where developed over centuries, and not without controversy. Claudius, Bishop of Turin (never excommunicated) criticized images and relics in Church, Celestine I (The Pope!)criticized distinctive clerical dress, and Cyprian, Bishop of Carthage (venerated as a Saint) criticized all bloodshed, even in war. All are considered Catholics, yet all clearly went against what are now recognized as the teachings of the Catholic Church.

Denying free will becomes in itself also somewhat of a loaded term given what most people connect it with. Augustine is one who truly promulgates a doctrine of Augustinianism IE monergism or full dependence on God for doing any good, he based this rather painstakingly on mostly Paulian sources that affirms much the same, but which has since at least in the context of his day eclipsed entirely by his doctrine of original sin given the Pelagian controversy. Plenty of early church fathers says things to the effect, but not taken to the length of making it doctrine which in many cases came later. Luther in the bondage of the will also seems to affirm that none can disparage the name of Christ through any holiness nor can anyone truly accept him as lord, but through God. Calvin argued in mostly Augustinian tones for total depravity, but affirmed free will in regards to ones nature, being it one influenced by God or not and that those in grace will never fall from it and those that will be without salvific grace 'speaking on the reprobates' will never enter into it or even give a full-hearted attempt.

Generally it gets compartmentalized when you take the early church fathers. Are we talking about total depravity? Predestination? Synergism or Monergism? Limited or unlimited atonement? Irresistible grace? Many varies and sometimes have quotes that can be taken directly to support either. To a degree Arminianism and Calvinism's pcurc or Tulip kind of goes like a domino where one affirmation tends to follow another so just as a partial example I will use from it. Justin Martyr certainly defined at one point total depravity. Ignatius in limited atonement in regards to predestination. Ambrose in preserve of the saints. I could go on. You certainly find others which entail views of conditional perseverance such as again Ignatius, or partial depravity. From the early second century to the sixth century it's not exactly hard to come by such, but with Constantine things became more compartmentalized in regards to doctrine and with Justinian II I would argue that the church became even more politically entrenched which created a different atmosphere altogether. The only one thing one cannot make a case for is complete theological unity and it gets particularly muddled in regards to early church fathers with Origen and onwards. Doctrines and practices are two different things which is why one must be cautious and contextual studies of the bible then levied into theology is an absolutely monstrous undertaking which I expect and hope I will invest much of my life into.

And to clarify when it comes to the idea of free will none of the major denominations affirm that God puppeteers men to sin or is the internal cause of them doing such which is often wrongly levelled at some.

[Cannabis Islands]

I must say that before I "came home" to the Catholic Church, I embraced the gay identity. Just saying. But why does the church condemn homosexual acts while not reprimanding his excellency, Johan Bonny, who said that the church needs a ceremony to bless same-sex couples? I'm sure Pope Francis is aware of this, and a Bishop who makes a statement like this needs to be addressed.

I have no idea on that score.

Really? A Bishop publicly contradicts Catholic teaching, and nothing is done about it? Hmm...

[The Flutterlands]

I actually have problems with the idea of Hell and it involves Heaven. How could anyone enjoy the bliss of Heaven while knowing that there are people suffering the torments of Hell?

[Cannabis Islands]

I actually have problems with the idea of Hell and it involves Heaven. How could anyone enjoy the bliss of Heaven while knowing that there are people suffering the torments of Hell?

Because those are the hell are a lost cause. They will never experience the divine presence.

[Diopolis]

I actually have problems with the idea of Hell and it involves Heaven. How could anyone enjoy the bliss of Heaven while knowing that there are people suffering the torments of Hell?

The grace of God.

I have no idea on that score.

Really? A Bishop publicly contradicts Catholic teaching, and nothing is done about it? Hmm...

I'm not the pope, but I'm sure he has good reasons for it, whatever they are.

[Menassa]

I actually have problems with the idea of Hell and it involves Heaven. How could anyone enjoy the bliss of Heaven while knowing that there are people suffering the torments of Hell?

Well you do realize your physical body probably won't be in heaven... and heaven itself is a bliss that has no way to be calculated by human means?

[Cannabis Islands]

I actually have problems with the idea of Hell and it involves Heaven. How could anyone enjoy the bliss of Heaven while knowing that there are people suffering the torments of Hell?

The grace of God.

Really? A Bishop publicly contradicts Catholic teaching, and nothing is done about it? Hmm...

I'm not the pope, but I'm sure he has good reasons for it, whatever they are.

And this is why I can't take the Catholic Church seriously.

[Diopolis]

The grace of God.

I'm not the pope, but I'm sure he has good reasons for it, whatever they are.

And this is why I can't take the Catholic Church seriously.

I thought it was because you denied the divinity of Jesus?

[Cannabis Islands]

And this is why I can't take the Catholic Church seriously.

I thought it was because you denied the divinity of Jesus?

What I mean "take seriously", is that I don't think that with all the scandals that the Church has had, I cannot look at it as a source of inspiration. Either theological are secular