Christian Discussion Thread V

[Lleu llaw Gyffes]

So killing yourself is a bigger sin than killing GOD???

Can one really kill God?

Indeed, there is a whole religion based upon God dying to save us all. You must have heard of it. The one with Three Persons who are One God, the one with incense and icons and beards, the one with chocolate in Spring and gifts in Winter. It's on the tip of my tongue. You must have heard of it.

[The united states of Saints]

That was written 2000 years before Jesus

No it wasn't. A few centuries earlier at most.

His point still stands though

[The Alma Mater]

Can we? If it was Gods plan that Judas betrayed Jesus, that makes judas the most obedient Christian ever

God knew that Judas would betray Jesus, and allowed it to happen so that the prophecy would be fulfilled. There's no indication, either from Judas or Jesus or the Gospel narrative, that Judas was specifically commanded by God to betray Jesus (much less that he was aware of such a command). Rather, Judas' conscience is quite obviously not clear, Jesus curses him, and the narrators of Luke and John both associate the betrayal with Satan.

You do realise that Satan is Gods loyal servant - and that therefor you just strengthened his point ?

[Angleter]

God knew that Judas would betray Jesus, and allowed it to happen so that the prophecy would be fulfilled. There's no indication, either from Judas or Jesus or the Gospel narrative, that Judas was specifically commanded by God to betray Jesus (much less that he was aware of such a command). Rather, Judas' conscience is quite obviously not clear, Jesus curses him, and the narrators of Luke and John both associate the betrayal with Satan.

You do realise that Satan is Gods loyal servant - and that therefor you just strengthened his point ?

Not in the New Testament, he isn't.

[Efraim-Judah]

Can one really kill God?

Indeed, there is a whole religion based upon God dying to save us all. You must have heard of it. The one with Three Persons who are One God, the one with incense and icons and beards, the one with chocolate in Spring and gifts in Winter. It's on the tip of my tongue. You must have heard of it.

Jesus isn't God. It is written by messiah himself " Why do you call me good? Only God is good"

It is written "God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?"

[Efraim-Judah]

You do realise that Satan is Gods loyal servant - and that therefor you just strengthened his point ?

Not in the New Testament, he isn't.

Yes he is, where is it written that he isn't? If you believe that Satan is in opposition to God, then you believe in 2 gods! That's called Dualistic Paganism!

[Efraim-Judah]

Does that matter?

Indeed it does, when Moses delivered that, it was true. God was not man. God became man.

"Why do you call me good? Only God is good"


This shows us that Yeshua thought he was distinct from and subservient to Adonai.

[Menassa]

Not in the New Testament, he isn't.

Yes he is, where is it written that he isn't? If you believe that Satan is in opposition to God, then you believe in 2 gods! That's called Dualistic Paganism!

Luke 10:18

[Efraim-Judah]

Yes he is, where is it written that he isn't? If you believe that Satan is in opposition to God, then you believe in 2 gods! That's called Dualistic Paganism!

Luke 10:18

Why is Satan's appearance to Earth any different from Gabriel's?

[Efraim-Judah]

Today is forty days, which is five weeks and five days of the Omer.

Blessed are You, Lord our God, King of the Universe, who has sanctified us with His commandments, and commanded us concerning the counting of the Omer.


It is written that 40 days after the Resurrection, Yeshua ascended!!!

Happy Ascension to you all.

[Menassa]

Luke 10:18

Why is Satan's appearance to Earth any different from Gabriel's?

fall πεσόντα pesonta to fall

[Menassa]

Today is forty days, which is five weeks and five days of the Omer.

Blessed are You, Lord our God, King of the Universe, who has sanctified us with His commandments, and commanded us concerning the counting of the Omer.


It is written that 40 days after the Resurrection, Yeshua ascended!!!

Happy Ascension to you all.

According to John Christ was crucified on the first night of Passover and we don't start counting the Omer until the second.

[Efraim-Judah]

Why is Satan's appearance to Earth any different from Gabriel's?

fall πεσόντα pesonta to fall

I don't understand how that makes it any different?

[Menassa]

fall πεσόντα pesonta to fall

I don't understand how that makes it any different?

"Like a lightning bolt, falling from heaven." Is Gabriel ever called falling from heaven? A fallen angel?

[Efraim-Judah]

I don't understand how that makes it any different?

"Like a lightning bolt, falling from heaven." Is Gabriel ever called falling from heaven? A fallen angel?

"There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it."

Natural Phenomena can happen when angels "descend" though that does not make them bad.

[Menassa]

"Like a lightning bolt, falling from heaven." Is Gabriel ever called falling from heaven? A fallen angel?

"There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it."

Natural Phenomena can happen when angels "descend" though that does not make them bad.

I wasn't talking about Natural Phenomena such as lighting or earthquakes... the word used here in Greek descended καταβὰς katabas is not the same as the word used in Luke 10:18 which means FALL.

[Efraim-Judah]

"There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it."

Natural Phenomena can happen when angels "descend" though that does not make them bad.

I wasn't talking about Natural Phenomena such as lighting or earthquakes... the word used here in Greek descended καταβὰς katabas is not the same as the word used in Luke 10:18 which means FALL.

It is the action of falling "Pesonta"

[Menassa]

I wasn't talking about Natural Phenomena such as lighting or earthquakes... the word used here in Greek descended καταβὰς katabas is not the same as the word used in Luke 10:18 which means FALL.

It is the action of falling "Pesonta"

No, The seventy-two returned with joy and said, “Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name.”

Contextually, Jesus is talking about the falling of Satan due to the Apostle's power.

I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you.

(18) I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.—The tense of the first Greek verb implies continuous action: I was beholding Satan as he fell . . . While they were working their Master had been following them in spirit, gazing, as it were, on each stage of their victorious conflict. Their triumph over the demons was the beginning and the earnest of a final conquest over Satan as “the prince of the demons.” There may, possibly, be a reference to the belief then beginning to be current among the Jews as to the fall of Satan after his creation; but the primary meaning of our Lord’s words is that he was now dethroned from his usurped dominion in the “high places” (comp. Ephesians 6:12), which symbolised the spiritual region of the soul and mind of man. The imagery reappears in a developed form in Revelation 12:9.

http://biblehub.com/commentaries/ellicott/luke/10.htm

[Tarsonis Survivors]

That was written 2000 years before Jesus

No it wasn't. A few centuries earlier at most.

No it wasn't, the oldest copies are from a few centuries prior and Numbers was finaliZed likely in 5th century BC. But its history, tied to the oral law predates the Davic kingdom. Judaism is much older than the secularists try to claim.

[The Third Nova Terra of Scrin]

Indeed it does, when Moses delivered that, it was true. God was not man. God became man.

"Why do you call me good? Only God is good"


This shows us that Yeshua thought he was distinct from and subservient to Adonai.

Someone does not context. The aforementioned statement is given to the rich young man in Mark 10 (Someone does not have a habit of quoting specific verses) who asked to Christ how to attain salvation. Jesus said the statement not to deny His divinity but to ask a penetrating question to push the man to think the implications of his own words and to draw the man to recognize His divine identity.

Someone who read the whole chapter can easily understand what I'm talking about, as the rich young man, after all asks how to attain his salvation, so this becomes a matter more of soteriology.

And ironic, Christ claims Himself to be good in John 10:11 where he says Himself to be the good shepherd. Going by Ephraim-Judah's logic, as Jesus said He was good, therefore He must be God because He said only God can be good. (Mind-blowing)

[The Alma Mater]

No it wasn't. A few centuries earlier at most.

No it wasn't, the oldest copies are from a few centuries prior and Numbers was finaliZed likely in 5th century BC. But its history, tied to the oral law predates the Davic kingdom. Judaism is much older than the secularists try to claim.

So you fully agree it was not WRITTEN 2000 years before Jesus ? Thanks for backing me up

[Benuty]

No it wasn't, the oldest copies are from a few centuries prior and Numbers was finaliZed likely in 5th century BC. But its history, tied to the oral law predates the Davic kingdom. Judaism is much older than the secularists try to claim.

So you fully agree it was not WRITTEN 2000 years before Jesus ? Thanks for backing me up

On that note about secularists being the only ones that question Judaism's actual foundation date.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible% ... _reception

Kind of hard for a conservative Rabbi to be non-religious.

[Schiltzberg]

The betrayal of Christ was a grave sin. We can't completely assume anyone is in Hell, since we don't know whether they truly repented before their death (for Judas, it's implied that he didn't - whereas Peter, of course, did) or, if they committed suicide, what their state of mind was at the time. However, we can probably come closer to making that assumption for Judas than for any other historical figure.

Can we? If it was Gods plan that Judas betrayed Jesus, that makes judas the most obedient Christian ever

Eh, I don't know, man. Jesus kind of told him that it would have been better had he never been born...

[The Alma Mater]

Can we? If it was Gods plan that Judas betrayed Jesus, that makes judas the most obedient Christian ever

Eh, I don't know, man. Jesus kind of told him that it would have been better had he never been born...

Yes, but Jesus also told an innocent tree to die since it could not produce its fruit offseason.

[Schiltzberg]

The roman executioners tried. God has free rez tho, only 3 day delay.

Yeshua isn't God. It is written by Yeshua himself "Why do you call me good? Only God is good."

Just out of curiousity, could you provide the verse where he says that?