Christian Discussion Thread V

[Gim]

The Millerite predecessors of the group predicted a specific date, but the modern 7th Day Adventists specifically reject predicting a date for the Second Coming; they learned their lesson in 1844, and are unlikely to risk repeating the Great Disappointment.

Or, as I wrote in the very post you're quoting: "While still believing that the earthly Second Coming was imminent, they rather sensibly refused to set a specific date. This group became the Seventh Day Adventists."

Oh, okay. Yes, I see the passage. What do you think about the Sabbath being on a Saturday? I think that was the other part of my question.

[Sagra]

The Church Fathers established that Sabbath does remain in Saturday, as had been for millenia by their time. They do say, however, that the feast of Sabbath has been superseded by the Lord's Day, Sunday, when were are expected to celebrate the Resurrection of Our Lord (the Lord's Rest) instead of the old rites and sacrifices. You know, much like a good portion of Jewish ritual practices no longer bound Christendom.

[Gim]

The Church Fathers established that Sabbath does remain in Saturday, as had been for millenia by their time. They do say, however, that the feast of Sabbath has been superseded by the Lord's Day, Sunday, when were are expected to celebrate the Resurrection of Our Lord (the Lord's Rest) instead of the old rites and sacrifices. You know, much like a good portion of Jewish ritual practices no longer bound Christendom.

I'm assuming Sunday is now called the Sabbath, since not keeping the Sabbath is basically against the word of God(Exodus 20:8)?

[Living Stones]

The Church Fathers established that Sabbath does remain in Saturday, as had been for millenia by their time. They do say, however, that the feast of Sabbath has been superseded by the Lord's Day, Sunday, when were are expected to celebrate the Resurrection of Our Lord (the Lord's Rest) instead of the old rites and sacrifices. You know, much like a good portion of Jewish ritual practices no longer bound Christendom.

I'm assuming Sunday is now called the Sabbath, since not keeping the Sabbath is basically against the word of God(Exodus 20:8)?

"For sin over you shall not have lordship, for you are not under law, but under grace." - Rom. 6:14

"For Christ is an end of law for righteousness to every one who is believing." - Rom. 10:4

"And now he has obtained a more excellent service, how much also of a better covenant is he mediator, which on better promises hath been sanctioned." - Heb. 8:6

"Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of Sabbaths." - Col. 2:16

Furthermore, the tradition of holding the Lord's Supper on the first day, rather than the seventh, is directly mentioned in the bible:

"And on the first of the week, the disciples having been gathered together to break bread..." - Act. 20:7

[Gim]

Furthermore, the tradition of holding the Lord's Supper on the first day, rather than the seventh, is directly mentioned in the bible:

"And on the first of the week, the disciples having been gathered together to break bread..." - Act. 20:7

Then, why did the Sabbath disappear? If the Lord's Day is on the first day, why is the Sabbath not held on the Seventh Day?

[Living Stones]

Furthermore, the tradition of holding the Lord's Supper on the first day, rather than the seventh, is directly mentioned in the bible:

"And on the first of the week, the disciples having been gathered together to break bread..." - Act. 20:7

Then, why did the Sabbath disappear? If the Lord's Day is on the first day, why is the Sabbath not held on the Seventh Day?

I repeat:

"For sin over you shall not have lordship, for you are not under law, but under grace." - Rom. 6:14

"For Christ is an end of law for righteousness to every one who is believing." - Rom. 10:4

"And now he has obtained a more excellent service, how much also of a better covenant is he mediator, which on better promises has been sanctioned." - Heb. 8:6

"Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of Sabbaths." - Col. 2:16

[Grave_n_idle]

The church didn't replace scripture with tradition. The tradition came first.

Nope. The scripture came first, in the form of oral traditions, some of which were written down by various groups.

Traditions came later. Note I didn't say 'the tradition', because there wasn't one set of tradition at this point - that came much, much later.

Which is not to say that the scripture didn't get perverted on it's journey - there are, after all, clear traces of alteration - but the 'scripture' definitely predates the 'tradition'. Even the claim of validity to tradition is, after all, based on scripture.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

The church didn't replace scripture with tradition. The tradition came first.

Nope. The scripture came first, in the form of oral traditions, some of which were written down by various groups.

Traditions came later. Note I didn't say 'the tradition', because there wasn't one set of tradition at this point - that came much, much later.

Which is not to say that the scripture didn't get perverted on it's journey - there are, after all, clear traces of alteration - but the 'scripture' definitely predates the 'tradition'. Even the claim of validity to tradition is, after all, based on scripture.

Oral tradition IS Tradition, developed and handed down by an institution. It's all part of it Sacred Traditon. Just because some of it gets written down doesn't pull it out of tradition. Scripture is Traditon.


Like I said, I don't think you understand the nature of scripture, or religion for that matter.

[Sagra]

Then, why did the Sabbath disappear? If the Lord's Day is on the first day, why is the Sabbath not held on the Seventh Day?

It did not, and to this day the Jews keep Sabbath in Saturday. As Christians, however, we are comanded to celebrate the Lord on Sunday, during mass, in memory of Christ's death and resurrection. The old Sabbath feast, much like dietary prohibitions and the need for sacrifices in the Temple, have been superseded by our new convenant through Christ. This is very much the point where the Church came to its own as a separate entity from Judaism.

[Coulee Croche]

Nope. The scripture came first, in the form of oral traditions, some of which were written down by various groups.

So you agree Tradition came first.

[The Alexanderians]

So I was tossing about the idea of being tonsured as a reader...possibly a deacon. But I could never be a priest I hold that position to too great a standard.

[Gim]

Then, why did the Sabbath disappear? If the Lord's Day is on the first day, why is the Sabbath not held on the Seventh Day?

It did not, and to this day the Jews keep Sabbath in Saturday. As Christians, however, we are comanded to celebrate the Lord on Sunday, during mass, in memory of Christ's death and resurrection. The old Sabbath feast, much like dietary prohibitions and the need for sacrifices in the Temple, have been superseded by our new convenant through Christ. This is very much the point where the Church came to its own as a separate entity from Judaism.

Oh, okay. Christ's covenant superceding. Thank you for the clarification.

[Constantinopolis]

So I was tossing about the idea of being tonsured as a reader...possibly a deacon. But I could never be a priest I hold that position to too great a standard.

Never say never, my friend...

But as for being tonsured a reader, I'd say go for it. It's a good way to increase your commitment to God and the Church without making any sort of major decision about your life.

Becoming a deacon is another matter, of course. That would mean actually getting ordained into the major orders of the clergy, and permanently committing yourself to a special role in the Church. I still think it may be your calling, and I advise you to consider it - not "go for it", but consider it. Talk to people about it. Ask your priest, or other priests, or deacons that you know.

The only reason I'm not considering it myself is because it's not proper for ordained clergy to be involved in political matters. Ordained clergy speak for the Church, and that means they need to maintain political neutrality in their public capacity (though they may, of course, hold strong political opinions in private). So, to be ordained, I would need to commit myself to political neutrality in my public life. And I cannot do that. Not at this stage in my life, at least. I strongly feel that my calling is political. But perhaps some day, when I approach the age of retirement, I will be ready to give up politics, and at that time I may consider pursuing ordination.

[The United Neptumousian Empire]

I am also asexual... sort of. I am attracted to women, but I've never had any desire to have sex, not even in a dream.

Demi then?

I had to google that, I was unaware that demisexual was another word for gray asexual, but yeah that's about right.

I thought demisexuality was something else entirely. there's too many words for this stuff

[The Hobbesian Metaphysician]

Then, why did the Sabbath disappear? If the Lord's Day is on the first day, why is the Sabbath not held on the Seventh Day?

It did not, and to this day the Jews keep Sabbath in Saturday. As Christians, however, we are comanded to celebrate the Lord on Sunday, during mass, in memory of Christ's death and resurrection. The old Sabbath feast, much like dietary prohibitions and the need for sacrifices in the Temple, have been superseded by our new convenant through Christ. This is very much the point where the Church came to its own as a separate entity from Judaism.

On a technical point,

The Jews keep Sabbath from Friday night to Saturday night since their conception of the day is incredibly different from that of how much of the west perceives it from their worldview. Hence why the candle lighting is at night.

[Menassa]

Nebuchadnezzar thought that he was the Morning Star (a common title at the time).

Pharaoh was both the Morning AND the evening star. Eat that neb

I was going to add a tidbit about the Prince of Egypt.

[Menassa]

It did not, and to this day the Jews keep Sabbath in Saturday. As Christians, however, we are comanded to celebrate the Lord on Sunday, during mass, in memory of Christ's death and resurrection. The old Sabbath feast, much like dietary prohibitions and the need for sacrifices in the Temple, have been superseded by our new convenant through Christ. This is very much the point where the Church came to its own as a separate entity from Judaism.

On a technical point,

The Jews keep Sabbath from Friday night to Saturday night since their conception of the day is incredibly different from that of how much of the west perceives it from their worldview. Hence why the candle lighting is at night.

The Jewish day begins at evening since God said "It was evening, it was morning, one day."

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Pharaoh was both the Morning AND the evening star. Eat that neb

I was going to add a tidbit about the Prince of Egypt.

That's honestly my scholarly source for that one: Ralph Fienes.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

On a technical point,

The Jews keep Sabbath from Friday night to Saturday night since their conception of the day is incredibly different from that of how much of the west perceives it from their worldview. Hence why the candle lighting is at night.

The Jewish day begins at evening since God said "It was evening, it was morning, one day."

typical, starting the day by going to bed. I say we should all follow in God's example.

[Menassa]

The Jewish day begins at evening since God said "It was evening, it was morning, one day."

typical, starting the day by going to bed.

Well at least you're well rested for the evening... er... morning... er... one day?

I was going to add a tidbit about the Prince of Egypt.

That's honestly my scholarly source for that one: Ralph Fienes.

Never trust a welshman

[The Hobbesian Metaphysician]

typical, starting the day by going to bed.

Well at least you're well rested for the evening... er... morning... er... one day?

That's honestly my scholarly source for that one: Ralph Fienes.

Never trust a welshman

The duet between them, and Moses is frankly one of the better biblical songs I have heard in a while (even with all the liberties the film takes).

[Menassa]

Well at least you're well rested for the evening... er... morning... er... one day?


Never trust a welshman

The duet between them, and Moses is frankly one of the better biblical songs I have heard in a while (even with all the liberties the film takes).

I'll hands down give it the award for best Biblical Film.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

The duet between them, and Moses is frankly one of the better biblical songs I have heard in a while (even with all the liberties the film takes).

I'll hands down give it the award for best Biblical Film.

I like History of the World Part 1 myself

[The Alexanderians]

So I was tossing about the idea of being tonsured as a reader...possibly a deacon. But I could never be a priest I hold that position to too great a standard.

Never say never, my friend...

But as for being tonsured a reader, I'd say go for it. It's a good way to increase your commitment to God and the Church without making any sort of major decision about your life.

Becoming a deacon is another matter, of course. That would mean actually getting ordained into the major orders of the clergy, and permanently committing yourself to a special role in the Church. I still think it may be your calling, and I advise you to consider it - not "go for it", but consider it. Talk to people about it. Ask your priest, or other priests, or deacons that you know.

The only reason I'm not considering it myself is because it's not proper for ordained clergy to be involved in political matters. Ordained clergy speak for the Church, and that means they need to maintain political neutrality in their public capacity (though they may, of course, hold strong political opinions in private). So, to be ordained, I would need to commit myself to political neutrality in my public life. And I cannot do that. Not at this stage in my life, at least. I strongly feel that my calling is political. But perhaps some day, when I approach the age of retirement, I will be ready to give up politics, and at that time I may consider pursuing ordination.

Yeah...for similar reasons as you as well as a few others. I'm too...how to put it..."vulgar and profane" to be a priest. I have a foul mouth and I wouldn't have the necessary discipline for it.

Demi then?

I had to google that, I was unaware that demisexual was another word for gray asexual, but yeah that's about right.

I thought demisexuality was something else entirely. there's too many words for this stuff

Now see I had no idea that "gray asexuality" was a term. But yes I agree there are far to many terms in these identity politics.

[The Princes of the Universe]

I'll hands down give it the award for best Biblical Film.

I like History of the World Part 1 myself

Let's face it - you can't Torquemada anything!