Farage : Charge drunks who keep using A&E

[Frazers]

No. I'm suggesting it's as possible as the alternative.

The notion that Cameron cares more about a bit of PR than his dying sons life is plausible?

Yes

[Greater-London]

Actually, I have a whole slate of "fewer rights for the politicians" which I would like to present some day. Fewer rights to private education for their children, fewer personal rights of privacy for them, fewer rights to private sector employment after being in office, fewer rights (or at least equal rights) of immunity from prosecution as other government employees have ... I could go on.

Most relevantly to the subject, how about removing their right to enter parliament or the lords without passing a drug test? Including alcohol obviously.

So politicians aren't human beings, they can't make choices that affect their children? they can't have a private life? Dont' have to take a drugs test to enter the commons or lords? GREAT. How about you let other people not have to pass drugs tests for their jobs unless its a danger to the public? In fact have you ever had to take a drugs test for an employer?

[Imperializt Russia]

Fewer rights for the politicians? How nice.

Actually, I have a whole slate of "fewer rights for the politicians" which I would like to present some day. Fewer rights to private education for their children, fewer personal rights of privacy for them, fewer rights to private sector employment after being in office, fewer rights (or at least equal rights) of immunity from prosecution as other government employees have ... I could go on.

Most relevantly to the subject, how about removing their right to enter parliament or the lords without passing a drug test? Including alcohol obviously.

Emboldened for, the fuck?

[Frazers]

The taxpayer as an investment

Pretty hefty investment for something as touch and go as rehab.

When compared to the losses from drunks use of the health service it's not.

Naturally. As with a number of mental disorders or with certain infectious diseases

Except being mentally ill enough or infectious enough to be forcibly admitted to a facility and supervised is a lot less common than excessive drinkers, isn't it?[/quote]

Not really.

I disagree

Okay then.[/quote]

[Anywhere Else But Here]

At least a pint a day, maybe he's a member of the Inebriati:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Zj50DmBFp0

It's a tempting idea isn't it, charging people who bring it on themselves, but if you can single out one group, why not others? STD sufferers, the obese, smokers etc.

Besides, in theory the alcohol duty should pay for the cost of treating them, right? Although I suspect Farage would be opposed to an increase in that...

[Colbert Super PAC]

Britain should just privatize the NHS, that way healthcare providers can choose not to treat drunks.

Healthcare providers in America don't have that choice.
They're duty-bound to care for people who need it.

Regardless, drunks who need medical attention, well, do need medical attention.

Yeah, the American government is oppressing their freedoms. And if they need medical care, they can just go to another healthcare provider who does treat drunks.

[Imperializt Russia]

At least a pint a day, maybe he's a member of the Inebriati:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Zj50DmBFp0

It's a tempting idea isn't it, charging people who bring it on themselves, but if you can single out one group, why not others? STD sufferers, the obese, smokers etc.

Besides, in theory the alcohol duty should pay for the cost of treating them, right? Although I suspect Farage would be opposed to an increase in that...

2 pints per day, though in excess of the recommended daily/weekly intake (arbitrary), will help you live longer than not only heavy drinkers but also teetotallers.

A study in New Zealand found that smokers there paid significantly more in tobacco duty than they took out in smoking-related NHS healthcare, I imagine a similar statistic is shown in the UK. While obviously vastly more alcohol duty is received by the government than tobacco duty, vastly more healthcare is required by drinkers than smokers, except late in life. So I'm not sure if a trend is seen there.

[The Enrichment Center]

No you really couldn't. If someones drinking is a by product of their depression then its not their "fault". No more their "fault" than someone with anorexia not eating.

You realise that's exactly my point? Someone who drinks because they're depressed could easily be a victim of that change.

No I don't. I don't think the charge should be implemented at all. Simply if you go walking and keep on getting injured then your an idiot.

Idiot or not, NHS treatment should still be free.

This is the biggest slipper slope argument I ever did see!

"Charge drunks in A & E"
"Whats next? Charging people who break their legs by using them whilst walking! Charging the mentally ill for damaging themselves?"

Slippery slope argument through and through.

Except I'm not saying "What's next" I'm giving examples of situations which involve the same consequences and the same costs to highlight how people stigmatise drinkers. For this to be a slippery slope argument, I'd have to be suggesting that my examples might become a reality, but I'm not. Of course nobody is going to charge clumsy campers for treatment, the point is it's the same idea as charging foolish drinkers.

There is no hypocrisy here. There isn't a stigmatizing of alcohol drinkers. The idea (which I grant you is stupid) Is to charge drunk people in A & E who probably don't need to be there, will be hard to deal with and waste everyone's time. There is already a stigma around being a violent drunk and rightfully so.

If they're in A&E, they likely need to be there. I'm not sure drunk people make a habit of popping down for fun. If they're violent/rowdy they're already fined or charged in accordance with the law, so this is totally unnecessary and would put financial strain on people who obviously don't need it.

[The Enrichment Center]

The notion that Cameron cares more about a bit of PR than his dying sons life is plausible?

Yes

That's ridiculous.

[Frazers]

Yes

That's ridiculous.

That seems to be your staple retort. It's oh so convincing

[Imperializt Russia]

No you really couldn't. If someones drinking is a by product of their depression then its not their "fault". No more their "fault" than someone with anorexia not eating.

You realise that's exactly my point? Someone who drinks because they're depressed could easily be a victim of that change.

I'm pretty sure that what is being proposed (up front, at least) is that people who come in paralytic needing their stomach pumped, if they arrive repeatedly, should be charged.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but alcoholics don't often reach this stage, and their healthcare is later-life care such as liver transplants and long-lived health problems.

In any case, repeat visitors with alcoholism are probably given addiction advice anyway.
I've been paralytic in A&E, once, when I was seventeen. Because I was under 18, I red-flagged the system and had to see a social worker.
If such a system does not exist generally, I am shocked, and it cannot be hard to implement.

[Zakuvia]

Oy, it's going to be one of those nights...

So if I often get a bad back because I work as a labourer all week I knew the risks of doing it so ultimately it's my fault and I should pay for my treatment?

You worked to pay into the NHS precisely to solve these problems. And working isn't a realistic choice as it is a necessity. Drinking is a choice.

And, if I have an eating disorder and don't eat properly, I knew the risks of not eating it so ultimately it's my fault and I should pay for my treatment?

You knew you had an eating disorder and didn't eat properly in spite of it. Yes. People who are prone to alcoholism have a choice to drink. They choose to. They pay for it.

And of course, if I go camping/hiking every week and often end up injuring myself, I knew the risks of doing it so ultimately it's my fault and I should pay for my treatment?

If you need a GP after going camping every week, you're either a very bad camper or mentally ill for keeping up with it. Either way. CHOICE.

Also, what about those who drink responsibly but develop health problems relating to alcohol consumption anyway? Should they have known better than to have sipped the Devils brew that is alcohol?

A reputable doctor's going to know if your liver issue is due to excessive alcohol intake or something else. That's just a red herring.

The rest of what you said I agree with.

[The Nuclear Fist]

I wonder why alcohol related hospital visits are on the rise like that. Is alcoholism on the rise in the UK? Perhaps the solution would be to do something to combat alcoholism and educate people about responsible drinking, rather than fining people who already have a habit of it.

[Fionnuala_Saoirse]

people who come in paralytic needing their stomach pumped.

This doesn't happen

[Imperializt Russia]

I wonder why alcohol related hospital visits are on the rise like that. Is alcoholism on the rise in the UK? Perhaps the solution would be to do something to combat alcoholism and educate people about responsible drinking, rather than fining people who already have a habit of it.

It's not so much alcoholism, it's binge drinking culture, which has spread from the 18-30 mob to the 30-40 crowd now.

[Vashtanaraada]

This sounds like something said by someone who is out of touch with the mainstream.

"Oh, you're an alcoholic that needs help and counselling that the NHS doesn't provide and you might need to pay for? We're gonna slap a massive fine in your face, even though the majority of alcoholics are often living in poverty."

[AiliailiA]

Actually, I have a whole slate of "fewer rights for the politicians" which I would like to present some day. Fewer rights to private education for their children, fewer personal rights of privacy for them, fewer rights to private sector employment after being in office, fewer rights (or at least equal rights) of immunity from prosecution as other government employees have ... I could go on.

Most relevantly to the subject, how about removing their right to enter parliament or the lords without passing a drug test? Including alcohol obviously.

Emboldened for, the fuck?

It's a form of bribery. Officials do a favor for a private sector player, they get a position on the board of that private sector company or a lucrative consultancy after they leave office. There is no penalty of impeachment (since the "corruption" only became apparent after they left office) and it is very hard to prove they took the bribe when the 'favor' precedes the 'pay' by a space of years.

I have no problem with politicians going back to the profession they had before being elected. Let Rand Paul practice as a gynecologist, or Lincoln Chafee go back to shoeing horses. If they still want to work despite their parliamentary earnings and pension setting them up just fine, then good for them.

And if they want to write a book based on what they learned in politics, I'm fine with that too.

What I'm not fine with is them lending their famous name to a corporation, taking fistfulls of money for little or no work, after they leave office. It looks like corruption to me.

[Imperializt Russia]

people who come in paralytic needing their stomach pumped.

This doesn't happen

I went to A&E paralytic once and did not have my stomach pumped.
I was told some days afterwards by my friends that I didn't get my stomach pumped because I'd already vomited up all the alcohol (concussion, fell down the stairs at a party).

I've always suspected it to be an urban legend, but I've often been told that stomach pumping has little medical benefit and serves to just deter people from drinking to excess in future.

[Imperializt Russia]

Emboldened for, the fuck?

It's a form of bribery. Officials do a favor for a private sector player, they get a position on the board of that private sector company or a lucrative consultancy after they leave office. There is no penalty of impeachment (since the "corruption" only became apparent after they left office) and it is very hard to prove they took the bribe when the 'favor' precedes the 'pay' by a space of years.

I have no problem with politicians going back to the profession they had before being elected. Let Rand Paul practice as a gynecologist, or Lincoln Chafee go back to shoeing horses. If they still want to work despite their parliamentary earnings and pension setting them up just fine, then good for them.

And if they want to write a book based on what they learned in politics, I'm fine with that too.

What I'm not fine with is them lending their famous name to a corporation, taking fistfulls of money for little or no work, after they leave office. It looks like corruption to me.

It also sounds like a bullshit solution. What is this, Antz?

[Fionnuala_Saoirse]

This doesn't happen

I went to A&E paralytic once and did not have my stomach pumped.
I was told some days afterwards by my friends that I didn't get my stomach pumped because I'd already vomited up all the alcohol (concussion, fell down the stairs at a party).

I've always suspected it to be an urban legend, but I've often been told that stomach pumping has little medical benefit and serves to just deter people from drinking to excess in future.

It's nothing more than an urban legend. If you down a load of paracetamol or whatever and rock up within an hour you'll get activated charcoal at best.

[Vashtanaraada]

I wonder why alcohol related hospital visits are on the rise like that. Is alcoholism on the rise in the UK? Perhaps the solution would be to do something to combat alcoholism and educate people about responsible drinking, rather than fining people who already have a habit of it.

It's not so much alcoholism, it's binge drinking culture, which has spread from the 18-30 mob to the 30-40 crowd now.

Binge drinkers drink just as much as alcoholics half the time, and many alcoholics are binge drinkers anyway.

Don't forget that pensioners drink a great deal too, I think the UK just simply drinks a lot.

[United Kingdom of Kent]

The notion that Cameron cares more about a bit of PR than his dying sons life is plausible?

Yes

I may not have a high opinion of David Cameron but that kind of accusation without a shred of evidence is disgusting. You really believe he seeked possibly inferior medical treatment and allowed his son to die for PR, his son died years ago aswell you honestly believe that was all in preparation for this general election?

[Vashtanaraada]

It's a form of bribery. Officials do a favor for a private sector player, they get a position on the board of that private sector company or a lucrative consultancy after they leave office. There is no penalty of impeachment (since the "corruption" only became apparent after they left office) and it is very hard to prove they took the bribe when the 'favor' precedes the 'pay' by a space of years.

I have no problem with politicians going back to the profession they had before being elected. Let Rand Paul practice as a gynecologist, or Lincoln Chafee go back to shoeing horses. If they still want to work despite their parliamentary earnings and pension setting them up just fine, then good for them.

And if they want to write a book based on what they learned in politics, I'm fine with that too.

What I'm not fine with is them lending their famous name to a corporation, taking fistfulls of money for little or no work, after they leave office. It looks like corruption to me.

It also sounds like a bullshit solution. What is this, Antz?

I as a trainee teacher know this exactly. Michael Gove did this with free schools. Every free school that was built had to hire certain contractors and service providers, who happened to either know Gove personally, or were Tory Party donors.

Evidence: http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/michael-gove-ideological-vandalism.html

It seems the NHS' turn is now.

[Frazers]

Yes

I may not have a high opinion of David Cameron but that kind of accusation without a shred of evidence is disgusting.

He hasn't been accused of anything.

You really believe he seeked possibly inferior medical treatment and allowed his son to die for PR

I believe it's entirely plausable that he accepted standard treatment rather than the world class level of care he could easily obtain

his son died years ago aswell you honestly believe that was all in preparation for this general election?

No, nor did I say so

Do you believe all doctors are created equal? If not why do you accept the ones you do?

[Zakuvia]

Yes

I may not have a high opinion of David Cameron but that kind of accusation without a shred of evidence is disgusting. You really believe he seeked possibly inferior medical treatment and allowed his son to die for PR, his son died years ago aswell you honestly believe that was all in preparation for this general election?

False flag wavers dont' care if it's a politicians own children or 3,000 of their own people, they're willing to believe the worst regardless, and there's no convincing them otherwise.