Hillary Clinton to Launch 2016 Campaign

[Genivaria]

Well I'm convinced. Hilary it is.

http://www.forwardprogressives.com/real ... need-face/

[AiliailiA]

Well I'm convinced. Hilary it is.

http://www.forwardprogressives.com/real ... need-face/

Hillary not Hilary.

For anyone else who has trouble with that, HRC was named after sir Edmund Hillary the mountain climber. Mountain = big Hill. Hillary.

[North Calaveras]

ever since i heard her say that law-abiding gun owners were terrorizing the community....nope...

my biggest things are freedom of speech and gun rights, if your not for those you don't get my vote and she most certainly will not get mine.

also can't stand when politicians will say we need tighter gun laws and then turn around and sell military grade weapons to people who may have ties to islamic militants.

[AiliailiA]

http://www.forwardprogressives.com/real ... need-face/

Scalia will hang in for sure unless he dies. Breyer and Kennedy I'm not sure about, but I think Ginsberg would want Obama to be the president who picks her replacement.

Senate approval limits the choices but if she leaves it too long it might be a Republican choice and Republican Senate to confirm which is much worse.

[AiliailiA]

ever since i heard her say that law-abiding gun owners were terrorizing the community....nope...

my biggest things are freedom of speech and gun rights, if your not for those you don't get my vote and she most certainly will not get mine.

also can't stand when politicians will say we need tighter gun laws and then turn around and sell military grade weapons to people who may have ties to islamic militants.

Obama is just as much for gun control as she is. How are your gun rights now?

[North Calaveras]

ever since i heard her say that law-abiding gun owners were terrorizing the community....nope...

my biggest things are freedom of speech and gun rights, if your not for those you don't get my vote and she most certainly will not get mine.

also can't stand when politicians will say we need tighter gun laws and then turn around and sell military grade weapons to people who may have ties to islamic militants.

Obama is just as much for gun control as she is. How are your gun rights now?

Not nearly as good as they could be, I'm from CA and it's a hassle to get weapons, now that I'm in hawaii it's not much differen't.

I never liked Obama's gun policy either, but I do thank him for helping with the removal of DADT.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

We have achieved some form of socialized healthcare. We need to keep it.

Hillary's probably our girl at this point, and I'll take anyone who can defend affordable care and keep the sociopaths on the right at bay.

[Forsher]

Meh. I only bothered reading this thread because of an ad for Paul Henry's latest show made my mother ask a question about who I assumed would be Jeb Bush. Then I found the below posts

These people are going to be in for a rude surprise.

One of those people doesn't belong.

"If my mum (first warning sign) was to come into me now (what does this mean?) and say Shaunna pack yourself we're moving to New Zealand (good, good) or America or Hawaii (ah, you see, they're not American, i.e. they just coincidentally want to move to NZ). I wouldn't hesitate (terrible grammar, not that mine is brill)".

Whatever idiot put this together clearly has too much trust in computers.

These people are going to be in for a rude surprise.

Why New Zealand I wonder. Peter Jackson fans?

Speaks English. Accent love. Other silly reasons.

He's more left wing than either of them.

things like this make me reconsider living in america

If the vaguely corrupt regime of Key and co. makes you want to reconsider living in the US, you should really reconsider living in NZ.

[Threlizdun]

Yeah, I'll pass.

[San Eulogio]

I'd say she would probably be the dictator version of Obama while throwing around some vile feminist claims and bombings of many oil countries.

[AiliailiA]

I'd say she would probably be the dictator version of Obama while throwing around some vile feminist claims and bombings of many oil countries.

US Presidents can't be dictators, their powers to act unilaterally are limited by constitutional design.
"Vile feminist claims" could mean anything. I can't comment beyond saying it sounds a bit hysterical.
And bombing oil countries? The United States' main source of oil is the United States. It's second biggest source is Canada (nearly half of imports) and Mexico. Source. I'm pretty sure the next President isn't going to bomb the US, Canada or Mexico.

Venezuala perhaps.

[AiliailiA]

Hillary and Dubya are two sides of the same coin. Remember her support for the Iraq War? Yeah. I certainly don't want the ways of the shrub back, which is why I think she'd be awful.

ohdontbesilly

she voted to authorize the invasion of Iraq because she wanted to look tough. no one thought he'd DO it. it was the wrong thing to do but almost every person in congress voted for it.

I suppose it might be a reason to support a different democrat--good luck with that--but its no reason to ever support a republican over her.

This post of yours was back on page 5. I meant to reply to it earlier ...

"No one thought he'd DO it" has been been addressed. I don't believe it and by now you probably don't either. Even the few Congresspeople who voted against it mostly did it for the wrong reasons, and were 'wise after the fact' that the WMD and Saddam-supports-terrorism rationales weren't supported by any facts.

But the reason I'm replying is to document who did actually vote for the use-of-force-in-Iraq resolution. The short version is "half the Democrats, all the Republicans".

Actually, it's more than half of the Democrats (either by head count or by average of the two branches) but in the Senate alone it's less than half. So "most" if you really narrow it down, but no means "almost everyone".

The sole Republican Senator who voted Nay was Lincoln Chaffee (R-RI) who voted against many key Bush policies and resigned from the party when he left office in 2007.
The Independent was former Republican Jim Jeffords (I-VT) who left the party in 2001 in dissatisfaction with the Bush Tax Cuts.

FOR the Iraq War Resolution:

Blanche Lincoln (D-AR), Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), Chris Dodd (D-CT), Joe Lieberman (D-CT), Joe Biden (D-DE), Thomas Carper (D-DE), Bill Nelson (D-FL), Max Cleland (D-GA), Zell Miller (D-GA), Evan Bayh (D-IN), Tom Harkin (D-IA), John Breaux (D-LA), Mary Landrieu (D-LA), John Kerry (D-MA), Jean Carnahan (D-MO), Max Baucus (D-MT), Ben Nelson (D-NE), Harry Reid (D-NV), Robert Torricelli (D-NJ), Hillary Clinton (D-NY), Chuck Schumer (D-NY), John Edwards (D-NC), Byron Dorgan (D-ND), Ernest Hollings (D-SC), Tom Daschle (D-SD), Tim Johnson (D-SD), Maria Cantwell (D-WA), Jay Rockefeller (D-WV), and Herb Kohl (D-WI).

AGAINST the Iraq War Resolution:

Barbara Boxer (D-CA), Bob Graham (D-FL), Daniel Akaka (D-HI), Daniel Inouye (D-HI), Dick Durbin (D-IL), Barbara Mikulski (D-MD), Paul Sarbanes (D-MD), Teddy Kennedy (D-MA), Debbie Stabenow (D-MI), Karl Levin (D-MI), Mark Dayton (D-MN), Paul Wellstone (D-MN), Jon Corzine (D-NJ), Jeff Bingaman (D-NM), Kent Conrad (D-ND), Ron Wyden (D-OR), Jack Reed (D-RI), Patrick Leahy (D-VT), Patty Murray (D-WA), Robert Byrd (D-WV), and Russ Feingold (D-WI).

Back then Ron Paul was a House member. The other 4 Republicans voting against the Iraq War Resolution there were: Jimmy Duncan (R-TN), John Hostettler (R-IN), Amo Houghton (R-NY), Jim Leach (R-IA) and Connie Morella (R-MD).

It came up in the 2008 primary campaign, and was a major point of difference which gave Obama an edge over HRC. It will come up again, not so much in primaries but in the main contest when she'll very likely be facing a Republican with no voting record on the Iraq war. The war may be over for the US, but the justification, the conduct and the consequences of that war certainly are not. Arguably it is the cause of most of the trouble in the Middle East and the Mahgreb now. Democrats will try to blame Bush for beginning the war or at least the command of the war, and Republicans will turn it around on Hillary with "you voted for it".

Hillary can't distance herself from the decision by saying it was bipartisan, or that she can't be distinguished from any other Democrat. When well-known Senators like Boxer, Byrd, Corzine, Feingold, Inouye, Teddy Kennedy, Levin and Mikulski voted the other way, she can't say "everyone was doing it back then".

It's going to have to be "I changed my mind" and "Well, something I learned in my time as Secretary of State was ..." and that old favorite of both sides: "the war was justified but mistakes were made in the implementation".

If the Republican nominee is Jeb Bush neither side will mention the war. If it's Rand Paul expect them to hammer hard. It might be a non-issue or it might be a win/lose issue, depending on who the Republicans pick. But Hillary needs a very good answer in any case, because she'll be asked by someone and if she tries "everyone was doing it back then" that will play into the Republican narrative that she's a big old liar.

In fact, whoever they run, I expect that will be the Republican campaign slogan: "She's a big old liar. Vote <name> 2016"

[AiliailiA]

Meh. I only bothered reading this thread because of an ad for Paul Henry's latest show made my mother ask a question about who I assumed would be Jeb Bush.

You and your mother should put down the bottle and go to bed. Separately or together, if you're both adults it's not my place to judge.

But if you're unsure about which candidate will be Jeb Bush in 2016 you've probably had enough to drink.
And if you're still sharing a computer with your mother then one or both of you should get up early tomorrow morning and go get a job.

All of the above is written in jest. Your perfectly spelled and punctuated first line was a big big target for my kind of humour!

[The United Territories of Providence]

As much as I hate to share certain concerns with the right wing media, I have to say I'm kinda worried about Hillary's age. If she gets elected in 2016, she will be around 69 years old (tied with the Gipper of all people for oldest president)

Now, I'm not saying that old people are qualified to lead the Nation, it's just that considering the other older Presidents, it's not always a good track record:

Reagan: 69 when elected, got dementia and probably loss control of the presidency due to complications related to that

Harrison: 68 when elected, died 34 days in office of pneumonia from the swearing in ceremony

Buchanan: 65, the civil war was clearly coming, and he lacked the will to deal with it

Taylor: 64, died within a year of taking office.

Really, the only Presidents that took office in their 60s that were good were Truman (60) and Eisenhower (62), and even they had their moments. I question electing one of the oldest presidents in American history, especially at a time when change is clearly needed.

Reagan (as far as we know) didn't have dementia until after 1994. He was very much in control in 1988. But it might have seemed like he wasn't due to....Reagan being Reagan. By admission of some republicans today, he wasn't a very bright at all but he was compassionate.

[Forsher]

Meh. I only bothered reading this thread because of an ad for Paul Henry's latest show made my mother ask a question about who I assumed would be Jeb Bush.

You and your mother should put down the bottle and go to bed. Separately or together, if you're both adults it's not my place to judge.

But if you're unsure about which candidate will be Jeb Bush in 2016 you've probably had enough to drink.
And if you're still sharing a computer with your mother then one or both of you should get up early tomorrow morning and go get a job.

All of the above is written in jest. Your perfectly spelled and punctuated first line was a big big target for my kind of humour!

If it helps, the aforementioned ad mentioned a competition between a Hillary and a Bush. There was not 100% certainty on my part that the Bush in question would be Jeb Bush.

[Myrensis]

I do think it's a concern, but more of the "Republicans will run someone younger and make a big deal of Hillary's age" sort than "oh no, not like Reagan forgetting he broke the law" sort.

I don't really see how that's going to work because, ya know, John McCain. Nominated by the GOP when he was 5 years older than Clinton is now, with a history of cancer and physical issues, 8 years later (as of upcoming election) not only still in the Senate, but appointed as Chairman of the Armed Services Committee. And of course Saint Reagan.

Going after Hillary about age will come across as unabashed sexism. "No feeble pathetic woman could be expected to handle the pressure of being President! Only ancient white male Republicans can carry the burden of the world on their shoulders!"

[Spoder]

Hillary is far too centrist.

I suppose she may be a better alternative to Rand Paul, or any other democratic candidate, but it doesn't change much.

Can the United State of America, please, please see at least one good politician in one of the major parties? I don't care what party, what their background I'm just tired of having nobody but assholes and thieves run the nation...

[Oceasia]

To be fair he's pretty spot on. Sanders is a self-proclaimed socialist and that alone would turn a number of independents and even a number of democrats against voting for him.

Plus Sanders is better suited to the Senate. The US needs him there far more than it does in the White House.

Actually I have been reading that the majority of young people in America look at Socialism positively, so it's really possible that society is moving to the left.

I really can't see America being a socialist nation in the near future. And i really shouldn't care that much about it.

[Napkiraly]

I'd say she would probably be the dictator version of Obama while throwing around some vile feminist claims and bombings of many oil countries.

US Presidents can't be dictators, their powers to act unilaterally are limited by constitutional design.
"Vile feminist claims" could mean anything. I can't comment beyond saying it sounds a bit hysterical.
And bombing oil countries? The United States' main source of oil is the United States. It's second biggest source is Canada (nearly half of imports) and Mexico. Source. I'm pretty sure the next President isn't going to bomb the US, Canada or Mexico.

Venezuala perhaps.

And that's just to get the chimichangas.

[United Russian Soviet States]

I have a strong dislike of Hillary Clinton. I hope Rand Paul owns her in the election!

Oh my God. This is tiresome. Do you have anything of substance to add to the conversation, or are you just going to mindlessly bitch about "liberals"?

I am debating my enemy.

[Napkiraly]

Oh my God. This is tiresome. Do you have anything of substance to add to the conversation, or are you just going to mindlessly bitch about "liberals"?

I am debating my enemy.

"Debating".

[Lyrian Oligarchic Royal Empire]

I'd say she would probably be the dictator version of Obama while throwing around some vile feminist claims and bombings of many oil countries.

US Presidents can't be dictators, their powers to act unilaterally are limited by constitutional design.
"Vile feminist claims" could mean anything. I can't comment beyond saying it sounds a bit hysterical.
And bombing oil countries? The United States' main source of oil is the United States. It's second biggest source is Canada (nearly half of imports) and Mexico. Source. I'm pretty sure the next President isn't going to bomb the US, Canada or Mexico.

Venezuala perhaps.

Well, actually. We all know that Democrats are the true enemies of Freedom^TM, and so like that Manchurian candidate that she is, Hillary will bomb all of the "Red States" to allow her to set herself up as the one true Kueen to rule them all.

[L Ron Cupboard]

If she IS elected, there's an AR-15 round with her name on it.

And if she IS, there's an orange jumpsuit with your name on it.

[Lyrian Oligarchic Royal Empire]

If she IS elected, there's an AR-15 round with her name on it.

And if she IS, there's an orange jumpsuit with your name on it.

Normally I would say that the Secret Service has such things covered. Unfortunately, they've decided to shit all over their good name recently.

[Kernen]

If she IS elected, there's an AR-15 round with her name on it.

That's what was said about Obama. Nobody has even come close to a genuine attempt. Its safe to say that it simply won't happen.

I never understood this line of argument. If your vote against is determined by your fear for the candidate's life should they win, the issue is not the candidate, its the mental stability of the opposed citizens.