Are leftists becoming a minority?

[Shaggai]

20% of 10 is 2. If they have 10 kids each on average, they're at balance. As for Catholics and Mormons, they're still getting outmemed. The Overton window tends to move leftwards. They can't continue to be as conservative while remaining at all mainstream.

They're not particularly mainstream- the vast majority of Catholics ignore the Vatican or follow its laws only selectively, but a minority do follow them strictly- at the moment. I'm not so sure about Mormons. It's possible we're looking at a situation where the mainstream is liberal but everyone who isn't mainstream is conservative.

You're never going to have situation where the non-mainstream is entirely conservative. As long as society isn't infinitely far left, there will be leftists who are outside of the mainstream. As for those in the mainstream: the mainstream will become what is currently considered liberal, but at that point it will become a centrist position, and people who are centrists today will be rightists.

[Diopolis]

They're not particularly mainstream- the vast majority of Catholics ignore the Vatican or follow its laws only selectively, but a minority do follow them strictly- at the moment. I'm not so sure about Mormons. It's possible we're looking at a situation where the mainstream is liberal but everyone who isn't mainstream is conservative.

You're never going to have situation where the non-mainstream is entirely conservative. As long as society isn't infinitely far left, there will be leftists who are outside of the mainstream. As for those in the mainstream: the mainstream will become what is currently considered liberal, but at that point it will become a centrist position, and people who are centrists today will be rightists.

True, but animal-rights activists/deep ecology people, true anarchists, and other far left positions are a tiny minority of what was already a minority. They're nowhere near as significant as rightists.

[Shaggai]

You're never going to have situation where the non-mainstream is entirely conservative. As long as society isn't infinitely far left, there will be leftists who are outside of the mainstream. As for those in the mainstream: the mainstream will become what is currently considered liberal, but at that point it will become a centrist position, and people who are centrists today will be rightists.

True, but animal-rights activists/deep ecology people, true anarchists, and other far left positions are a tiny minority of what was already a minority. They're nowhere near as significant as rightists.

This is because rightists have moved left. The seriously far-right is just as small as the seriously far-left.

[Augarundus]

Leftists are always a minority. In virtually every left-wing population, the majority of the population has been conservative, traditionalist, and politically irrelevant. Left-wing politics thrives by relying upon an educated elite who constitute a small sliver of those in power to drum up support in a sizable minority of the uneducated mob to pressure their way into control. I'm not saying this as insult - in fact, left wing movements I approved of have historically done this. But leftism - truly revolutionary leftism - is always and everywhere a minority movement.

(The classic example that comes to mind - and the one I know about most - is Revolutionary France; the vast, vast majority of the population was conservative, apolitical or maybe apathetically monarchist. The Jacobins - originally the radically laissez-faire liberals and later, following the Fuiellant coup, Robespierre and the left authoritarians - were a small fraction of the government, but wielded a huge amount of political influence, along with the other radical liberals; a lot of Jacobin power came through the Parisian mob, especially the Sans-Coulottes, being instigated into intimidating the other political factions.

Same in the Soviet Union - majority of the population conservative, orthodox, etc., but masses of the urban, uneducated Reds were mobilized by the small Bolshevik elite into action decisively. Left wing politics relies upon a vanguard of elite radicals who control a small but highly organized contingent that can "push" other parties over the edge into conceding power).

[Tunasai]

Salutations, liberal hivemind of NSG and the conservatives brave enough to oppose them!

Recently, on a long car trip back home from out of town, I contemplated the rise of various parties like UKIP, the Front National, and especially the Hawkish, theocratic wing of the Republican party. It seems that in America and especially Europe (but not quite Canada), we're seeing a growing voice for radical right wing parties. UKIP is now the most talked about party in Britain, and will probably place 3rd in May's elections. The Front National in France, headed by Marine Le Pen, is also seeing their approval ratings rise while the Socialist Hollande's drop (in November he was at 18%, but after Charlie Hebdo he shot up to 40).

Since the birth of left-right politics, both sides have been on about equal levels, with one shining more than the other at times. But is it actually possible that more people are subscribing to conservative politics, and that the liberals are becoming the minority?

In comments sections everywhere, we see hateful comments towards Muslims, and many people espousing anti-Liberal rhetoric. We keep waving them off as trolls, but they're quite a majority compared to the left-wing, level-headed commenters. In the EU elections in June, who was at the head of the tide? UKIP. It seems that the anti-immigration and typically anti-equality parties, which many compare to the National Socialist Party of 1930s Germany (by their harsh stances on immigration and civil rights), are becoming extremely popular. While opinion polling in the UK at least shows UKIP at a distant third, it is quite possible that support for these extremist viewpoints will be our leaders in the future.

In America, Obama's approval rating have... stagnated, after dropping a lot. Last I checked he was around 40%. We've seen the rise of the Tea Party, and though we all mock him, people like Ted Cruz think they can actually become President. The Republicans swept to power in both houses in the midterm elections, and it's a mystery as to who will become President in 2016, because the polls vary.

Is it entirely possible that the collective leftists of the Western world are becoming a minority? Or is the right-wing minority just getting louder as they decline in size?

So, what sayeth ye, NSG? Is all not yet lost, is the future of the world in the hands of Nigel Farage, or can Syriza and Podemos restore confidence in our liberal values?

I'm only speaking here from an American perspective.

Leftists were rarely the majority in the first place. Typically, America has been composed of an even mixture of Conservative, Independent, and Liberal. These numbers have fluctuated, but have often been reflected in those who align with certain parties. What I think you are mistaking here is NS commentators, Facebook commentators, and Obama's approval rating do not reflect current ideological numbers. Both tea party right wingers and die-hard liberals are both a small minority, thankfully. They are loud, often pointlessly insulting, and really quiet an annoyance. I say this as a Conservative Republican Christian. Yes, sometimes extremists on both sides are unruly.

But NS and Facebook do a horrible job at reflecting current political trends. Most times, the people who post are the ones dying to say something at all costs.

Obama's poll numbers are quiet worrisome for liberals. Frankly, because they are horrible. It's not because Obama is liberal, it's because he is perceived as a horrible President. The world is falling apart on the outside and the economy isn't recovering like it should on the inside. These are the two biggest factors. Not to mention, Obama is hardly perceived as the honest open book he once was. Democrats were lucky to win 2012, lucky that Romney's campaign was to incompetent to run. Obama has been a horrible manager of the White House. But rest assured, unless Democrats put up the gaffe filled Joe Biden, Ted Cruz will NOT win. Take this from a Republican, he won't. The Republican you should worry about is Macro Rubio.

Political trends lean on independents. If a President can manage the economy and international scene well, Republican or Democrat he will be popular. If he can't, they will crucify him. They did the same to Bush near the end of his term, and they will do the same to Obama.

So shortly, not so much. It's just a perceived decline.

[Diopolis]

True, but animal-rights activists/deep ecology people, true anarchists, and other far left positions are a tiny minority of what was already a minority. They're nowhere near as significant as rightists.

This is because rightists have moved left. The seriously far-right is just as small as the seriously far-left.

There are more Quiverfulls, traditionalist Catholics(and other absolute monarchists, but those are the largest chunk), and neofascists than there are animal rights activists, true anarchists, and communists. They sound like they're more because conservatism is not about being loud- you'll notice that the Neofascists, who are a different strain of far-right, are by far the loudest of those subcultures. Serious far-right subcultures grow in a different way than leftist subcultures, and they look different, but that doesn't make them smaller.

[Penguin Union Nation]

Unfortunately, intelligence and compassion will usually be in the minority.

[Serastan]

Wat are you going to do about it? People can think what they want
The amount of ad hominem and strawman in this is astounding, though

[New Hampshire Republic]

Hopefully not.

Good competition is good.

[The Romulan Republic]

If anything, the Left is rising in America. Oh, the Republicans may win control of Congress for a while, but I very much doubt they can take the Presidency. The party has descended into frothing lunacy, and demographics do not favour them in the long run- the increasing latino vote is unlikely to support the party of immigration-related fear mongering and bigotry, and the gradual dying off of their elderly supporters does not bode well for the Republicans either. Why do you think they're so desperate to restrict voting rights? Because to put it bluntly, they're fucked.

[Die Volkstaat]

Gee, I wonder why the "far-right" is rising in Europe? Perhaps it has to do with the fact that the populace in these countries are venting their concerns over the European Union, austerity, and immigration?

[The Romulan Republic]

Gee, I wonder why the "far-right" is rising in Europe? Perhaps it has to do with the fact that the populace in these countries are venting their concerns over the European Union, austerity, and immigration?

You mean a lot of them are nationalist, xenophobic racists?

[Die Volkstaat]

Gee, I wonder why the "far-right" is rising in Europe? Perhaps it has to do with the fact that the populace in these countries are venting their concerns over the European Union, austerity, and immigration?

You mean a lot of them are nationalist, xenophobic racists?

Nothing is inherently wrong with nationalism.

Furthermore, I really, really despise how the word racist is flung around these days. It reminds me of McCarthyist America, where all of those who were even vaguely left wing were labeled as communist. The same is happening in Europe, except with different terms. One can't acknowledge the complete failure of multiculturalism without being labeled some nasty term. To fling around the term racist so carelessly is intellectually dishonest.

[The Romulan Republic]

You mean a lot of them are nationalist, xenophobic racists?

Nothing is inherently wrong with nationalism.

Furthermore, I really, really despise how the word racist is flung around these days. It reminds me of McCarthyist America, where all of those who were even vaguely left wing were labeled as communist. The same is happening in Europe, except with different terms. One can't acknowledge the complete failure of multiculturalism without being labeled some nasty term. To fling around the term racist so carelessly is intellectually dishonest.

Are you really going to pretend that their aren't a lot of people who oppose immigration, at least in part, because of racism?

And has it occurred to you that any failure in multiculturalism is at least partly due to racists making sure it fails?

[Romalae]

If anything, the Left is rising in America. Oh, the Republicans may win control of Congress for a while, but I very much doubt they can take the Presidency. The party has descended into frothing lunacy, and demographics do not favour them in the long run- the increasing latino vote is unlikely to support the party of immigration-related fear mongering and bigotry, and the gradual dying off of their elderly supporters does not bode well for the Republicans either. Why do you think they're so desperate to restrict voting rights? Because to put it bluntly, they're fucked.

For the most part I agree with you, but I must play devil's advocate on two points here:

1) They are indeed fucked, demographically speaking, unless they begin to significantly change their party platform on a number of issues (particularly social ones). Political parties are ever-evolving, so it is not like the Republican party will just fade into oblivion as their voting base of elderly white religious conservatives dies off. It will adapt to a new paradigm, likely incorporating a lot of this Libertarianism that has become popular among younger Republicans.

2) The point about Latinos not wanting to vote for a party of immigration-fearmongerers is true to some degree, but you do have to remember a few things. Firstly, the Hispanic vote tends to be around 1/3 Republican (similar to the Asian and Jewish vote), so it's not like Latinos are across the board unwilling to vote for the Republican party. Secondly, according to Pew Research, immigration policy is not a dealbreaker for most Latino voters. In other words, most are willing to vote for a party or candidate even if they disagree with them on the immigration issue. Lastly—and this point is less rooted in statistical data and more so in anecdotal information—there does seem to be a small but nonetheless extant burn-the-bridge-behind-you mentality that is evident in some American Latinos. As the Guardian reported, María Guadalupe Guereca, the mother of Sergio Adrian Hernández who was shot dead aged 14 by a US border patrol agent in 2010, stated about the agents that "they are racist over there, and the worst are our own people who change when they go. The border agent who killed my son was a Mexican." Whether or not this is part of a larger trend isn't so clear to me because I've only seen scattered anecdotal evidence of this phenomenon, but it is nonetheless notable.

[Die Volkstaat]

Nothing is inherently wrong with nationalism.

Furthermore, I really, really despise how the word racist is flung around these days. It reminds me of McCarthyist America, where all of those who were even vaguely left wing were labeled as communist. The same is happening in Europe, except with different terms. One can't acknowledge the complete failure of multiculturalism without being labeled some nasty term. To fling around the term racist so carelessly is intellectually dishonest.

Are you really going to pretend that their aren't a lot of people who oppose immigration, at least in part, because of racism?

And has it occurred to you that any failure in multiculturalism is at least partly due to racists making sure it fails?

That's a bit of a strawman, as I never "pretended" that some are opposed to immigration because of racism. But, that's as valid an argument as one saying that some Labour voters vote Labour because they just want the benefits to mooch on. Sure, such people exist, but that's not the party's objective.

Well, it's not really that simple. You act as if there is a racist boogeyman that lives in Europe, and there isn't. Numerous polls show that muslims in Europe will not accept secularism, homosexuality, and women's rights. They segregate themselves, leading to social tensions.

[The Romulan Republic]

Are you really going to pretend that their aren't a lot of people who oppose immigration, at least in part, because of racism?

And has it occurred to you that any failure in multiculturalism is at least partly due to racists making sure it fails?

That's a bit of a strawman, as I never "pretended" that some are opposed to immigration because of racism. But, that's as valid an argument as one saying that some Labour voters vote Labour because they just want the benefits to mooch on. Sure, such people exist, but that's not the party's objective.

Well, it's not really that simple. You act as if there is a racist boogeyman that lives in Europe, and there isn't. Numerous polls show that muslims in Europe will not accept secularism, homosexuality, and women's rights. They segregate themselves, leading to social tensions.

While stating that Muslims all hold the same view and behave the same way is not technically racism (Islam not being a race), it is prejudice and stereotyping.

[Die Volkstaat]

That's a bit of a strawman, as I never "pretended" that some are opposed to immigration because of racism. But, that's as valid an argument as one saying that some Labour voters vote Labour because they just want the benefits to mooch on. Sure, such people exist, but that's not the party's objective.

Well, it's not really that simple. You act as if there is a racist boogeyman that lives in Europe, and there isn't. Numerous polls show that muslims in Europe will not accept secularism, homosexuality, and women's rights. They segregate themselves, leading to social tensions.

While stating that Muslims all hold the same view and behave the same way is not technically racism (Islam not being a race), it is prejudice and stereotyping.

Nothing is wrong with stereotyping when the majority hold a certain position.

Although, I'm admittedly somewhat happy that you're not one to jump on the hackneyed "shout racism bandwagon" when one critiques Islam.

[Allancia]

Politics tend to act like a gyroscope. If Fascism proves itself incompetent, then we will see a rise in Communism, like what happened in the 50's. After the right-wing screws up, which it eventually will, the left will take power again and then screw up, leaving the right to take power once more, and so on.

[Jumalariik]

Well, this is a complicated question: people who are expressly leftist or unconsciously leftist?

I mean, in my experience, in High School in the Northeast, almost everybody is unconsciously leftist.
If they don't favor left wing economic policy (most people I know give no rat's ass about politics), they favor left wing social policies: legalizing "weed," gay rights, the right to promiscuity, etc.
I'm not saying this is because of values or because they partake in drugs, promiscuity, probably the latter though.

So, in the Northeast, no, they're not becoming a minority, they are and shall remain the majority, us religious "conservative" young people are a dying breed.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Well, this is a complicated question: people who are expressly leftist or unconsciously leftist?

I mean, in my experience, in High School in the Northeast, almost everybody is unconsciously leftist.
If they don't favor left wing economic policy (most people I know give no rat's ass about politics), they favor left wing social policies: legalizing "weed," gay rights, the right to promiscuity, etc.
I'm not saying this is because of values or because they partake in drugs, promiscuity, probably the latter though.

So, in the Northeast, no, they're not becoming a minority, they are and shall remain the majority, us religious "conservative" young people are a dying breed.

Good.

[Jumalariik]

Well, this is a complicated question: people who are expressly leftist or unconsciously leftist?

I mean, in my experience, in High School in the Northeast, almost everybody is unconsciously leftist.
If they don't favor left wing economic policy (most people I know give no rat's ass about politics), they favor left wing social policies: legalizing "weed," gay rights, the right to promiscuity, etc.
I'm not saying this is because of values or because they partake in drugs, promiscuity, probably the latter though.

So, in the Northeast, no, they're not becoming a minority, they are and shall remain the majority, us religious "conservative" young people are a dying breed.

Good.

Why is this good exactly?
Could you explain?

No?

[Fin Dovah Junaar]

I don't really see liberals shrinking....and if so its because they haven't rounded out the crazies like the Conservatives did.

[Forsher]

When times are relatively tough people find charisma appealing. They are also more conscious of economic concerns and decisions. In this sense, identity politics has gutted the left because a) the ideas are often reasonably complex and the best soundbites around them are negative and b) they are not usually tied directly to economic concerns.

In some cases you get a perfect trifecta. That is, charismatic leadership (or, dynamism or politics), economic concerns and the embedded idea that the centre-right is the economic choice (when you think about the positioning of the parties, right or centre parties are viewed as economically knowledgeable*).

*Regardless of whether or not this is true.

[Bulgislavia]

"Are leftists becoming a minority?" probably if the Koch brothers have anything to do with it

Its hard for me to understand how people can support and promote the current profit over people, predatory, greed infested Crapitalism. The "Infinite growth" model is so anti human that if something doesn't change soon the planet is going to be raped till we destroy ourselves.

Trickle up economics and allowing corporations to act above the law is only ever going to produce massive profits for the pockets of a small few and probably end up gambled away on Wall St to be traded around on computer screens until the next big crash. Hardly any of that money seems to be reinvested into society for the benefit of everyone else and the middle class continues to struggle and shrink. If big money is allowed to destroy democracy the left wont just shrink, it will disappear from public discourse entirely. If it's forced underground it will radicalize until the level of greed and excess leads to a revolution and the collapse of the edifice of corporate fascism.... And then the pendulum will probably swing back to the left. (Fingers crossed for a future 90% tax rate on the 1% )

Also a plea to all voting age American's who intend to vote in 2016. Please, please, please do not vote for someone who is brought and paid for by the Koch brothers. The future of the USA and by extension the rest of the world depends on it.

(FYI I think the Koch brothers have planned to budget around $800 million to spend at the next presidential election to influence voters to choose one of their Republican puppets O_o )