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Are leftists becoming a minority?

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Romalae
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Postby Romalae » Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:17 pm

Sagredo wrote:
Romalae wrote:The Gallup poll you cited there is the one outlier among nine recent approval rating polls. I check Gallup almost daily, also, and it's been more unfavorable than favorable consistently in recent months. I think it may be slightly up in Gallup's poll in response to the successful Iran nuclear deal or something of that sort.


It probably is that. Has he done anything else recently?

Nothing of great significance except the Iran deal, so I'm guessing the boost is due to that.
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Kincoboh
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Postby Kincoboh » Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:29 pm

Teemant wrote:Hopefully left wing politics will lose followers.

And I doubt that Syriza will restore any confidence. If you haven't noticed Greece will run out of money in 9th april and today is 6th.

Most leftists immediately became skeptical after SYRIZA won. They are opportunists; wolves in sheep's clothing. The fact that they marketed themselves as a radical left-wing party and then entered into a coalition with a right wing social conservative party shows they are not what they say they are. Once SYRIZA is exposed as the sham they are, we can finally focus on changing the idea of representative democracy and the nationstates altogether. That's where leftism is ultimately headed.
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Confederate Ramenia
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Postby Confederate Ramenia » Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:42 pm

Kincoboh wrote:
Teemant wrote:Hopefully left wing politics will lose followers.

And I doubt that Syriza will restore any confidence. If you haven't noticed Greece will run out of money in 9th april and today is 6th.

Most leftists immediately became skeptical after SYRIZA won. They are opportunists; wolves in sheep's clothing. The fact that they marketed themselves as a radical left-wing party and then entered into a coalition with a right wing social conservative party shows they are not what they say they are. Once SYRIZA is exposed as the sham they are, we can finally focus on changing the idea of representative democracy and the nationstates altogether. That's where leftism is ultimately headed.

Lmao Syriza was fake from the start. But by changing representative democracy do you mean making it something other than rep. Democracy, or just changing the form of representative democracy
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Kincoboh
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Postby Kincoboh » Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:47 pm

Confederate Ramenia wrote:
Kincoboh wrote:Most leftists immediately became skeptical after SYRIZA won. They are opportunists; wolves in sheep's clothing. The fact that they marketed themselves as a radical left-wing party and then entered into a coalition with a right wing social conservative party shows they are not what they say they are. Once SYRIZA is exposed as the sham they are, we can finally focus on changing the idea of representative democracy and the nationstates altogether. That's where leftism is ultimately headed.

Lmao Syriza was fake from the start. But by changing representative democracy do you mean making it something other than rep. Democracy, or just changing the form of representative democracy

Making it a more organic, bottom-up form of democracy.
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Shigiel
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Postby Shigiel » Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:55 pm

The left in politics isn't being very successful lately, but this isn't part of a long-term trend, I don't think. The far-left, however, desperately needs to get its shit together.


Confederate Ramenia wrote:
Kincoboh wrote:Most leftists immediately became skeptical after SYRIZA won. They are opportunists; wolves in sheep's clothing. The fact that they marketed themselves as a radical left-wing party and then entered into a coalition with a right wing social conservative party shows they are not what they say they are. Once SYRIZA is exposed as the sham they are, we can finally focus on changing the idea of representative democracy and the nationstates altogether. That's where leftism is ultimately headed.

Lmao Syriza was fake from the start. But by changing representative democracy do you mean making it something other than rep. Democracy, or just changing the form of representative democracy


They probably mean replacing it with direct democracy, which is just as much of a sham as representative democracy or bourgeois leftist fronts like SYRIZA.

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Wisconsin9
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Postby Wisconsin9 » Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:08 am

Probably not. The right-wing is just really, really fucking loud, like, loud enough that the police are getting complaints for the third time this week.
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Keyboard Warriors
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Postby Keyboard Warriors » Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:20 am

No, neither the left nor the right will ever become a minority. If there's always two sides to a discussion and one side disappears, does that mean that we will one day stop having political discussions? The political left and right are fluid terms; people who were once considered leftists on the political spectrum might very well be considered rightists today. That does not mean leftists nor rightists are dying out.
Yes.

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Myrensis
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Postby Myrensis » Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:59 am

Ikania wrote:Is it entirely possible that the collective leftists of the Western world are becoming a minority? Or is the right-wing minority just getting louder as they decline in size?


In America it's largely the latter. It's no coincidence that the sudden rise of the hawkish, theocratic wing of the Republican party followed the election of a black 'liberal' Democrat named Hussein, something that would have been utterly impossible in "traditional" conservative America.

Europe is just repeating a long and cherished tradition in human history of turning to reactionary conservative groups in troubled times because they seem to offer simple solutions to complex problems, just have to bring back 'traditional' morality and virtue and protect <insert nation here>'s proud culture and identity, and then everything will be fixed and we can go back to the (heavily whitewashed, rose-tinted, semi-mythical) good old days!

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The Northumbrian Republic
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Postby The Northumbrian Republic » Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:16 am

Keyboard Warriors wrote:No, neither the left nor the right will ever become a minority. If there's always two sides to a discussion and one side disappears, does that mean that we will one day stop having political discussions? The political left and right are fluid terms; people who were once considered leftists on the political spectrum might very well be considered rightists today. That does not mean leftists nor rightists are dying out.

I personally agree with this statement but in the UK parties such as the Lib Dems and Labour have moved into the authoritarian right area.

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Laspea
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Postby Laspea » Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:24 am

Leftists have always been a minority. Left-liberals have been more-or-less on the retreat since the 70's.

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Camelza
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Postby Camelza » Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:28 am

Teemant wrote:Hopefully left wing politics will lose followers.

And I doubt that Syriza will restore any confidence. If you haven't noticed Greece will run out of money in 9th april and today is 6th.

Hahahaha. No it won't, wait and see.
Last edited by Camelza on Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Camelza
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Postby Camelza » Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:47 am

They always were. But I get that the OP is refering to everything from "progressive centrist" to "Libertarian Socialist", so no; Reactionaries (parties like the ones you described) only appear when there is a growth of liberalism and progressive policies, so it is quite the other way around.
Kincoboh wrote:
Teemant wrote:Hopefully left wing politics will lose followers.

And I doubt that Syriza will restore any confidence. If you haven't noticed Greece will run out of money in 9th april and today is 6th.

Most leftists immediately became skeptical after SYRIZA won. They are opportunists; wolves in sheep's clothing. The fact that they marketed themselves as a radical left-wing party and then entered into a coalition with a right wing social conservative party shows they are not what they say they are. Once SYRIZA is exposed as the sham they are, we can finally focus on changing the idea of representative democracy and the nationstates altogether. That's where leftism is ultimately headed.

You people talk about things you don't know and make so many idiotic conclusions without any proof.
*Ehem* Syriza is the descendant of KKE-interior, the anti-stalinist breakaway faction of the KKE, having always a majority of communists in its ranks and leadership. They allied with ANEL, because they're left-wing economic speaking and at the time the economy was all that mattered, also it was the only party with similar policies regarding the economy that were willing to ally with Syriza(plus ANEL's just an old-style christian democratic party, rather than a Greek UKIP), but most importantly it would heal the extremely polarised political scene of the country and give a message of unity.
However, things are quite difficult for the government since they don't have any real allies, neither experience and they can't change the constitution(it can be altered only every five years) which is a trivial step for them. But even in such a difficult position the government managed to halt the downhill of our living standards, which is quite a great thing by itself.

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Arkolon
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Postby Arkolon » Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:28 am

It depends on what you consider a 'leftist' to be.
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Earl of Sandwich IV
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Postby Earl of Sandwich IV » Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:35 am

Left-wing politics has always been a disaster. Syriza is currently adding another episode, keeping the tradition of failure alive. Unfortunatly I doubt they are going to disappear, it's just never ending stupidity.

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Memell
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Postby Memell » Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:38 am

Earl of Sandwich IV wrote:Left-wing politics has always been a disaster. Syriza is currently adding another episode, keeping the tradition of failure alive. Unfortunatly I doubt they are going to disappear, it's just never ending stupidity.


Yep...
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Czardom Republic
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Postby Czardom Republic » Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:44 am

Doesn't matter, they're both wings on the same damn dirty bird.

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Postby AiliailiA » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:02 am

Camelza wrote:
Teemant wrote:Hopefully left wing politics will lose followers.

And I doubt that Syriza will restore any confidence. If you haven't noticed Greece will run out of money in 9th april and today is 6th.

Hahahaha. No it won't, wait and see.


Debt ceiling game of chicken happening there you think?
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AiliailiA
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Postby AiliailiA » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:08 am

Czardom Republic wrote:Doesn't matter, they're both wings on the same damn dirty bird.


That analogy didn't go where you wanted it to go, did it?

Just two wings, what has wings, ok birds. I am describing democratic government as a bird. That's not what I meant! Dirty bird. It's a dirty bird.

Flightless bird would have worked better. But it would still be a stupid analogy :D
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Arkolon
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Postby Arkolon » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:11 am

Ailiailia wrote:
Camelza wrote:Hahahaha. No it won't, wait and see.


Debt ceiling game of chicken happening there you think?

They started some unpaid-taxes recollection venture by offering a 'special offer' to tax evaders, saying they can repay their taxes interest-free for this week only, raising €50 million in the first 24hrs. Greece expects to raise €250 million by the end of the week, over half of the repayment they have to make to the IMF.

Which is an answer to your question, I think, unless you were being totally sarcastic.
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AiliailiA
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Postby AiliailiA » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:27 am

Arkolon wrote:
Ailiailia wrote:
Debt ceiling game of chicken happening there you think?

They started some unpaid-taxes recollection venture by offering a 'special offer' to tax evaders, saying they can repay their taxes interest-free for this week only, raising €50 million in the first 24hrs. Greece expects to raise €250 million by the end of the week, over half of the repayment they have to make to the IMF.

Which is an answer to your question, I think, unless you were being totally sarcastic.


No, not being sarcastic. But how long would €250 million last, against the Greek spending deficit? Thee weeks perhaps?
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Maineiacs wrote:"We're going to build a canal, and we're going to make Columbia pay for it!" -- Teddy Roosevelt
Ifreann wrote:That's not a Freudian slip. A Freudian slip is when you say one thing and mean your mother.
Ethel mermania wrote:
Ifreann wrote:
DnalweN acilbupeR wrote:
: eugenics :
What are the colons meant to convey here?
In my experience Colons usually convey shit

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Braberland
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Postby Braberland » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:28 am

I personally don't think leftists are dissapearing as a whole but your typical mild leftist of the late 20th-early 21st century are becoming more extremer. For example, here in the Netherlands there's more and more support of making the education and healthcare systems 100% public.
Last edited by Braberland on Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Arkolon
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Postby Arkolon » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:30 am

Ailiailia wrote:
Arkolon wrote:They started some unpaid-taxes recollection venture by offering a 'special offer' to tax evaders, saying they can repay their taxes interest-free for this week only, raising €50 million in the first 24hrs. Greece expects to raise €250 million by the end of the week, over half of the repayment they have to make to the IMF.

Which is an answer to your question, I think, unless you were being totally sarcastic.


No, not being sarcastic. But how long would €250 million last, against the Greek spending deficit? Thee weeks perhaps?

Well, Syriza said they were going to use that money to pay their functionaries' salaries this month, so it won't last very long. But it will make the IMF repayment easier to swallow, for sure, especially if the previous choice was paying workers vs paying the IMF.
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Camelza
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Postby Camelza » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:56 am

Ailiailia wrote:
Camelza wrote:Hahahaha. No it won't, wait and see.


Debt ceiling game of chicken happening there you think?

Yes, that's what I think. However neither our government, nor Europe are willing to lose everything through an economic disaster, so, sooner-or-later one will back down, if this hasn't happened already that is.

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Schwere Panzer Abieltung 502
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Postby Schwere Panzer Abieltung 502 » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:02 am

No - The fact that there is still fierce support for things like pro-choice, relaxed immigration policies, and the like should prove it. Sure, OWS is over, but it was the Big Thing in American politics for a while not so long ago.
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Arkolon
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Postby Arkolon » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:25 am

Camelza wrote:
Ailiailia wrote:
Debt ceiling game of chicken happening there you think?

Yes, that's what I think. However neither our government, nor Europe are willing to lose everything through an economic disaster, so, sooner-or-later one will back down, if this hasn't happened already that is.

The old dogs of Europe, maybe, but what are Brussels and Berlin supposed to tell Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, Slovenia, Slovakia, Croatia, the Czech Republic, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Hungary, or Malta, who have (on average), worse social coverage, worse economic positions, lower salaries and lower standards of living compared to Greece, when Greece asks (and might likely get) a haircut on its debt for governmental misbehaviour? Or what about Portugal, Ireland, Spain, Italy, or the UK, who sailed past the crisis by making much-needed reform, while Greece doesn't? Europe has a sentimental attachment to Greece, I'll give you that, but it is hard to let them off on this one from a European perspective.
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