Arkolon wrote:Camelza wrote:We don't have it better, at least after 5 years of austerity were implemented.
Oh yeah, totally unlike
every other country in Europe that was hit by the financial crisis. UK, Ireland, France, Spain, Portugal, Italy; a lot of these are
still in austerity. I also suffer from austerity. Europe suffers from austerity. Your special snowflake syndrome is showing, Camelza. Greece isn't the bellybutton of the world.
Greece is still under austerity, the current government just decided it won't push any further austerity measures than those already in effect.
Also, please don't attack me personally, considering I've also make it clear that I'm against austerity in all of Europe, not just Greece in many of my posts in other threads.
Our country doesn't even have a de-facto minimum wage
Neither does Germany (until 1/1/15, so well after the crisis), Sweden, or Denmark, and I don't anyway see how this is related to social coverage.
No labour laws, no social security and a burgeoning unemployment combined all together make up for a an unequal poverty ridden society were the employers can threaten and ask anything of you, while you can't demand anything in return. Germany, Sweden and Denmark don't have all those combined.
speaking of better social coverage even sounds like a joke
Compared to most of Europe, Greece does in fact have higher hospital bed density, higher salaries, and (didn't think it was this but it's surprising)
much higher primary, secondary,
and tertiary education enrolment than, not only 'New Europe', but Germany as well. Greece also has a more developed economy, and spends more, on average, than high-income OECD countries and the (average of) the G7 countries on social welfare spending.
This graph however clearly shows, even though being contacted pre-crisis, that Greece doesn't spent as much in Social Welfare as you claim. I don't know which sources you've read, so I won't take your word for granted until I see some proof, last but not least our public education system is underfunded and in dissaray with schools being rundown institution short of teachers which provides opportunities for private education, which thrives. (Do have in mind that Greece must have more teachers than, ie; the Netherlands, due to the geocraphic nature of the country - remote islands, mountainous regions etc).
and with such a humanitarian crisis
You tell me not to use emotion, and you go ahead and use 'humanitarian crisis'. Have you ever been to Croatia? To Slovenia? To Poland? To Latvia? To the Czech Republic? And I don't mean gone to look at the pretty castles, but have you met the people there, especially those in urban communities as well as rural communities? If Greece is what you call 'a humanitarian crisis', you must think these countries as remnants of a nuclear war.
First of all, regarding the use of emotion, I simply responded to why your appeal to emotion is wrong. The Humanitarian crisis is real, you seeing this as me making an appeal to emotion is your problem, I merely state facts. You're the one saying "I lost my empathy towards Greece" in a discussion that should be overwhelmed by numbers and graphs.
Furthermore, I have travelled in much of the Balkans and I can clearly say that, ie; Belgrade, Budapest, Novi Sad and Sarajevo are far more safe and stable cities than Athens, or Thessaloniki. You clearly haven't visited industrial quarters and poor neighbourhoods in Greece either if you claim otherwise. The nations you describe are poor, however albeit being poor, they are stable societies, Greece at the moment was hit hard and a large part of the population is in complete chaos, a fact that has to be fixed if our economy is to be set straight again.
even Romania seems like a good immigration target for some of my compatriots.
I can almost guarantee that that is a lie. The 'almost' stems from the slight chance that your friend is delusional.
No, you see Romania, like many of the newly admitted EU members, is a growing economy, whereas Greece is a declining one with practically null chances to start a new career. As such many young Greeks go there to put their diplomas in practice, search it up.
Greece is shit and in a far worse situation than the countries you've listed.
Source that up for me, and 'it feelz wurs for me!!' isn't an acceptable answer.
http://inequalitywatch.eu/spip.php?article99http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_so ... yment_rate...better situation my ass.
I understand a Greek and a Slovenian value a €1 coin differently, and a 10% cut to a Greek's salary with a doubling of a Slovenian's salary would make these two people feel very differently (even if, at the end, these two people would have the same salary), but you have to stop pretending that Greece is now third-world. Greece is still better off (and in some instances
much better off) than a lot of 'New Europe'.
The problems stems that a Slovenian that would be paid 300 Euros per month without insurance (the most common way and amount of payment over here) would have to pay less for rent, electricity, common goods, etc than a Greek which makes life in Slovenia better, believe it, or not.
My girlfriend is Croatian. We talked about Greece and the living standards there, with people without doctors and little to no welfare and budget cuts and poverty and corruption after the crisis, but she didn't feel the empathy I did at the time. That was already the life in Croatia. And in Slovenia. And in the other countries I listed. I lost a lot of the empathy I felt for Greece when I saw the reality of life elsewhere. Greece really is a high-income, developed economy feeling a pinch from governmental misbehaviour, and you totally forget about the people in countries who already have it worse-- and this time I'm not only talking about Europe. Look at Greece on a world stage. Look at sub-Saharan Africa, look at South America, look at the Middle East, look at South East Asia. If Greece is as devastated as you say, what are these other, these genuinely poor countries to you?
Who said I don't clamour for countries like ie; Nigeria when they're mistreated by oil companies? Why should I support the notion that as far as we're not as bad as a sub-Saharan country we should keep our heads down? Your equation doesn't make any sense. And tell your girlfriend that Greece isn't only Mykonos and Santorini, but also the extremely poor rural regions of Epiruse and Thraki, cities like Korinthos and Serres, as well as half of Athens(the parts no tourist guide refers to), places most people never have heard of. I for once would prefer a growing and stable economically Croatian town, to the uncertainity and poverty-ridden hellhole of my town.
Now, I don't want to talk anymore about the economic crisis in Greece; the subject of the thread is "Leftists becoming a minority".
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:27 am
