No problem. Pew Research and Gallup usually have the best polling/survey information, in my view.
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by Romalae » Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:31 pm
by Imperial Esplanade » Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:44 pm
But the Lord stood by me, and gave me strength. (2 Timothy 4:17)One of the keys to happiness is a bad memory. (Rita Mae Brown)
by Imperial Esplanade » Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:49 pm
But the Lord stood by me, and gave me strength. (2 Timothy 4:17)One of the keys to happiness is a bad memory. (Rita Mae Brown)
by Romalae » Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:04 pm
Imperial Esplanade wrote:That's actually pretty misleading. Even though most youth are currently trending progressively, they actually prefer to be independent of the progressive-conservative dichotomy.
Also, they're historically bad low-information voters. As this generation matures and becomes more engaged in society, our collective political alignment may very well change.
by Yumyumsuppertime » Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:06 pm
by Imperial Esplanade » Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:18 pm
No, they prefer to be Independent of the Republican-Democrat dichotomy. From the Pew study you linked, "Pew Research Center surveys show that half of Millennials (50%) now describe themselves as political independents ... At the same time, however, Millennials stand out for voting heavily Democratic and for liberal views on many political and social issues, ranging from a belief in an activist government to support for same-sex marriage and marijuana legalization." So Millennials tend to have more liberal views, but identify politically as Independents.
That does not mean it will turn around completely. It seems unlikely that Millennials will by and large abandon their socially progressive views on issues like gay marriage or religiosity.
But the Lord stood by me, and gave me strength. (2 Timothy 4:17)One of the keys to happiness is a bad memory. (Rita Mae Brown)
by Hippie Utopia » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:55 pm
by Shaggai » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:03 pm
Arkolon wrote:Shaggai wrote:Fascism is a reactionary movement which eschews facts for a mythologizing narrative. Just because they're factually wrong doesn't mean that their ideology isn't reactionary.
Left and right are abstractions for fairly loose political coalitions. It's certainly not any sort of underlying principle. However, the coalitions are certainly things that exist in the world today, and it's useful to have words for them.
I don't mean to butt in, and I haven't read through your conversation, but fascism most definitely wasn't a reactionary ideology. For its time, it was quite the opposite. You should read into national syndicalism and the Third Position if you don't believe me.
by Prussia-Steinbach » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:09 pm
by Norstal » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:56 pm
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:I feel like the right wing is simply becoming more vocal and active. I think the left is actually growing, bit by bit. The American push for drug decriminalization and marriage equality is indicative of this.
Toronto Sun wrote:Best poster ever. ★★★★★
New York Times wrote:No one can beat him in debates. 5/5.
IGN wrote:Literally the best game I've ever played. 10/10
NSG Public wrote:What a fucking douchebag.
by Prussia-Steinbach » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:59 pm
Norstal wrote:Prussia-Steinbach wrote:I feel like the right wing is simply becoming more vocal and active. I think the left is actually growing, bit by bit. The American push for drug decriminalization and marriage equality is indicative of this.
The U.S is just becoming more libertarian. Look at the cuts to welfare and treatment of the homeless. That's not necessarily more left-wing.
by Pandeeria » Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:19 pm
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:I feel like the right wing is simply becoming more vocal and active. I think the left is actually growing, bit by bit. The American push for drug decriminalization and marriage equality is indicative of this.
Lavochkin wrote:Never got why educated people support communism.
In capitalism, you pretty much have a 50/50 chance of being rich or poor. In communism, it's 1/99. What makes people think they have the luck/skill to become the 1% if they can't even succeed in a 50/50 society???
by Willamette Valley » Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:06 pm
You completely missed the point. The overwhelming majority of millennials, albeit currently aligning themselves with leftist politics, don't really know much of anything of anything when it comes to political issues. In fact, they stay away from them. The second post, I left a link of a Harvard study (hardly a conservative college by any stretch) and they found of the millenials who ACTUALLY voted in the midterms, they trended just as conservatively as the rest of Americans. It's that second demographic that is more important, and it goes to show that politically active millenials generally do not follow that paradigm.
by Tahar Joblis » Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:23 am
by Imperial Esplanade » Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:50 am
Willamette Valley wrote:You completely missed the point. The overwhelming majority of millennials, albeit currently aligning themselves with leftist politics, don't really know much of anything of anything when it comes to political issues. In fact, they stay away from them. The second post, I left a link of a Harvard study (hardly a conservative college by any stretch) and they found of the millenials who ACTUALLY voted in the midterms, they trended just as conservatively as the rest of Americans. It's that second demographic that is more important, and it goes to show that politically active millenials generally do not follow that paradigm.
The slice of the electorate that votes in midterms tends to be more conservative than that which votes in presidential election years in general
But the Lord stood by me, and gave me strength. (2 Timothy 4:17)One of the keys to happiness is a bad memory. (Rita Mae Brown)
by Sociobiology » Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:10 pm
Imperial Esplanade wrote:Willamette Valley wrote:
The slice of the electorate that votes in midterms tends to be more conservative than that which votes in presidential election years in general
That's a hilarious oversimplification.
Instead of simply saying 'that's because it's the midterms,' maybe you ought to understand a bit more further as to why the midterms tend to be more 'conservative' - a more dedicated, informed voting base across the nation tends to show up. What should be more alarming is that the fact most millennials who DO show up are actually just as 'conservative' as the rest of America, that goes to show that the whole 'millennials are ultra progressives' we keep hearing about is a heap of nonsense... it's the (for the lack of the better term) 'politically stupid' millennials who are ultra liberal.
Yet another case in point, especially at the bottom.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... ys/374427/
Collectively, we support the idea of socialism simply because 'it sounds nice.' Yet, when asked to define it, millennials have absolutely no clue what it is or its' history.
by Imperial Esplanade » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:09 pm
Sociobiology wrote:Imperial Esplanade wrote:
That's a hilarious oversimplification.
Instead of simply saying 'that's because it's the midterms,' maybe you ought to understand a bit more further as to why the midterms tend to be more 'conservative' - a more dedicated, informed voting base across the nation tends to show up. What should be more alarming is that the fact most millennials who DO show up are actually just as 'conservative' as the rest of America, that goes to show that the whole 'millennials are ultra progressives' we keep hearing about is a heap of nonsense... it's the (for the lack of the better term) 'politically stupid' millennials who are ultra liberal.
Yet another case in point, especially at the bottom.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... ys/374427/
Collectively, we support the idea of socialism simply because 'it sounds nice.' Yet, when asked to define it, millennials have absolutely no clue what it is or its' history.
the same could be said for Christianity, Capitalism, Organic Food, and any number of any other this people support. the older generation has been complaining about the younger generation being less informed since the time of Aristotle, and probably longer.
But the Lord stood by me, and gave me strength. (2 Timothy 4:17)One of the keys to happiness is a bad memory. (Rita Mae Brown)
by Tahar Joblis » Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:30 pm
Pope Joan wrote:What evidence is there that leftists have ever been a majority, in the West?
by Prussia-Steinbach » Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:32 pm
Pope Joan wrote:What evidence is there that leftists have ever been a majority, in the West?
by Shaggai » Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:03 pm
Tahar Joblis wrote:There are currently three factors to keep in mind.
First, conservatives are out-reproducing liberals, and political views are to a large degree inherited. The right-wing's opposition to birth control, abortion, etc is paying off in the long run, to some degree.
Second, young "conservatives" of the present are not in all ways the same as old "conservatives" of the past. The status quo has changed, and you can see a shift in generational attitudes and party stances, correspondingly. It is very difficult, for example, to find a modern "conservative" of the day explicitly endorsing racism, and such things as miscegnation laws. Mainstream conservatives insist that liberals are the racist ones, mainstream liberals insist that conservatives are the racist ones, and the end of the story is that almost everyone agrees with yesterday's liberals who denounced racism as a bad thing.
Third, there's a lot of in-fighting going on over in the left wing. I know, I feel like I'm in the trenches of it when I debate here on NSG, often enough.
by Diopolis » Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:57 pm
Shaggai wrote:Tahar Joblis wrote:There are currently three factors to keep in mind.
First, conservatives are out-reproducing liberals, and political views are to a large degree inherited. The right-wing's opposition to birth control, abortion, etc is paying off in the long run, to some degree.
Second, young "conservatives" of the present are not in all ways the same as old "conservatives" of the past. The status quo has changed, and you can see a shift in generational attitudes and party stances, correspondingly. It is very difficult, for example, to find a modern "conservative" of the day explicitly endorsing racism, andthat such things as miscegnation laws. Mainstream conservatives insist that liberals are the racist ones, mainstream liberals insist that conservatives are the racist ones, and the end of the story is that almost everyone agrees with yesterday's liberals who denounced racism as a bad thing.
Third, there's a lot of in-fighting going on over in the left wing. I know, I feel like I'm in the trenches of it when I debate here on NSG, often enough.
Conservatives are out-reproducing liberals, but liberals are out-memeing conservatives. If you look at the Quiverfull movement, which is probably the most extreme in terms of out-reproducing everyone else, apparently about 80% of their kids leave the movement. And, of course, there's the shift in the Overton window, as you mentioned. Honestly, talking about whether the left or right is a majority or a minority is a bit misleading, because leftism is time-variant and left and right are defined with regards to the center point of the Overton window.
by Shaggai » Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:04 pm
Diopolis wrote:Shaggai wrote:Conservatives are out-reproducing liberals, but liberals are out-memeing conservatives. If you look at the Quiverfull movement, which is probably the most extreme in terms of out-reproducing everyone else, apparently about 80% of their kids leave the movement. And, of course, there's the shift in the Overton window, as you mentioned. Honestly, talking about whether the left or right is a majority or a minority is a bit misleading, because leftism is time-variant and left and right are defined with regards to the center point of the Overton window.
Considering they have 10-12 kids each, their movement can do that while continuing to grow without anyone new joining it. Also, looking at Mormons or (very devout; I understand that most Catholics are cafeteria Catholics)Catholics might be a better representation of what he means by conservatives outbreeding liberals. Those groups are more established and older; they are much better at retaining membership.
by Prussia-Steinbach » Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:11 pm
by Diopolis » Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:11 pm
Shaggai wrote:Diopolis wrote:Considering they have 10-12 kids each, their movement can do that while continuing to grow without anyone new joining it. Also, looking at Mormons or (very devout; I understand that most Catholics are cafeteria Catholics)Catholics might be a better representation of what he means by conservatives outbreeding liberals. Those groups are more established and older; they are much better at retaining membership.
20% of 10 is 2. If they have 10 kids each on average, they're at balance. As for Catholics and Mormons, they're still getting outmemed. The Overton window tends to move leftwards. They can't continue to be as conservative while remaining at all mainstream.
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