Women and sexism.

[Gauthier]

Given that the Nation of Islam is exclusively an American organization, "white" in this case would refer to White Anglo-Saxon Protestant caucasians.

I'm not white anymore? When did that happen?

Maybe it'll change when Louis Farrakhan preaches about how the Nazi Devil oppresses the black man.

[Nazi Flower Power]

I'm not white anymore? When did that happen?

Maybe it'll change when Louis Farrakhan preaches about how the Nazi Devil oppresses the black man.

But I meet the NSDAP's criteria for being Aryan... I thought that meant I was white.

Does this mean I am not the Master Race since WWII?

[Ereria]

It's like feminists want men to hate their cause or something lmao

[Nazi Flower Power]

It's like feminists want men to hate their cause or something lmao

OP does not speak for feminists as a group.

[Saiwania]

It's like feminists want men to hate their cause or something lmao

It is understandable because men aren't supposed to be feminists to begin with, a man who is a feminist is like a Christian who reads the Qur'an instead of the Bible, it is just heresy or mission creep for feminism to go outside of its originally defined purpose of just being concerned with women's rights in particular.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

It is understandable because men aren't supposed to be feminists to begin with, a man who is a feminist is like a Christian who reads the Qur'an instead of the Bible, it is just heresy or mission creep for feminism to go outside of its originally defined purpose of just being concerned with women's rights in particular.

Men can't be concerned about women's rights?

[Nazi Flower Power]

It is understandable because men aren't supposed to be feminists to begin with, a man who is a feminist is like a Christian who reads the Qur'an instead of the Bible, it is just heresy or mission creep for feminism to go outside of its originally defined purpose of just being concerned with women's rights in particular.

Men can't be concerned about women's rights?

Saiwania likes having the human race split up into factions.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

Saiwania likes having the human race split up into factions.

Letting ourselves be divided like that seems like a great way get conquered.

[Saiwania]

Men can't be concerned about women's rights?

Men don't need to be feminist in order to be in favor of feminism. I have no illusions that the purpose of feminism is women advocating for women's rights. Men don't need an equivalent movement to feminism because they have held societal power for most of recorded history.

If men were the weaker sex instead in an alternate universe, a men's rights movement would perhaps take the form of "Masculinism." This simply isn't needed, so instead men who do want to preserve male privilege or power take the form of "social conservatism" and related movements which seek to preserve the status quo which is currently a patriarchal social order in almost all countries.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

Men don't need to be feminist in order to be in favor of feminism.

I would think 'being in favor of feminism' would make one a feminist in the same way that 'being in favor of communism' would make one a communist.

Men don't need an equivalent movement because they have held societal power for most of recorded history.

If men were the weaker sex instead in an alternate universe, a men's rights movement would perhaps take the form of "Masculinism." This simply isn't needed, so instead of having an equivalent movement to feminism; men who do want to preserve male privilege or power take the form of "social conservatism" and related movements which seek to preserve the status quo which is currently a patriarchal social order in most countries

What about for those who don't want to preserve the status quo, but want to seek a state of greater freedom for both men and women?

[Saiwania]

What about for those who don't want to preserve the status quo, but want to seek a state of greater freedom for both men and women?

Those men would be liberals or progressives. Instead of liking the existing social order, they'd want to disrupt or change it for their own purposes and could be allied with feminists.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

Those men would be liberals or progressives. Instead of liking the existing social order, they'd want to disrupt or change it for their own purposes and could be allied with feminists.

"For their own purposes". Do you always imply bad faith on the part of your political opponents?

Could you define for me what you think the goal of feminism is?

[Saiwania]

"For their own purposes". Do you always imply bad faith on the part of your political opponents?

I don't think it is a matter of bad faith, everyone whether politically right or left has "purposes." People will decide early on or later what their motives, allegiance, or agenda is. Sometimes this is done deliberately, but often people will stumble into what side they're on by accident through their past experiences, their upbringing, decisions, associations etc. No matter what, there will never be pleasing everyone and sides are going to form.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

I don't think it is a matter of bad faith, everyone whether politically right or left has "purposes." People will decide early on or later what their motives, allegiance, or agenda is. Sometimes this is done deliberately, but oftentimes people will stumble into what side they're on by accident through their past experiences, their upbringing, decisions, associations etc. No matter what, there will never be pleasing everyone and sides are going to form.

I apologize, then. From the way you phrased it it seemed like you were trying to paint liberals and progressives as self-serving, as opposed to serving their society.

[Arglorand]

awesomesnip

Can I just point out how fucking much I respect you, because that was so far the best post on this thread?

[Arglorand]

We men are aggresive. We usually have high levels of testosterone.

Speak for yourself.

[Forsher]

Bold words for someone who has spent much of their time on this site attacking sex-positive feminism, body-positivity, and trans people and their supporters.

She has?

awesomesnip

Can I just point out how fucking much I respect you, because that was so far the best post on this thread?

AQ is right over there.

[Morr]

It's like feminists want men to hate their cause or something lmao

It is understandable because men aren't supposed to be feminists to begin with, a man who is a feminist is like a Christian who reads the Qur'an instead of the Bible, it is just heresy or mission creep for feminism to go outside of its originally defined purpose of just being concerned with women's rights in particular.

Women pretty much have equal rights with men. The ERA never passed, but still most feminism today doesn't actually talk about rights.

[Arglorand]

Bold words for someone who has spent much of their time on this site attacking sex-positive feminism, body-positivity, and trans people and their supporters.

She has?

Can I just point out how fucking much I respect you, because that was so far the best post on this thread?

AQ is right over there.

I know, but I am not entirely eager to post it there because it's likely to cause a shitfest over whether that's actually awesome or if it's subjective, you know?

[Forsher]

She has?



AQ is right over there.

I know, but I am not entirely eager to post it there because it's likely to cause a shitfest over whether that's actually awesome or if it's subjective, you know?

Nah, that thread's practically dead. That sort of thing is unlikely to happen these days.

[Dakini]

Bold words for someone who has spent much of their time on this site attacking sex-positive feminism, body-positivity, and trans people and their supporters.

She has?

Yes. I haven't followed this user too closely, but they were definitely doing a lot of that in the FGM thread. Their contributions start here.

Also, they have a nation called TERF, which speaks for itself.

[Ostroeuropa]

But it was not a unanimous monolith.

Nothing ever is.

But you asked us to provide you with a single example of women using societal institutions to unfairly discriminate and/or oppress males. I feel I've provided one.

There's also the research suppression on male victims of rape and DV.
(Straus exposes it.)

https://www.google.co.uk/?gfe_rd=cr&ei= ... on+strauss

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comm ... _suppress/

Or when women make appeals to masculinity to burden men with more work or extra duties or less valuation of their own autonomy/health/livelihood, and engage in social violence against non-compliant men, and the institutions which boost this signal.

There's also all the de-facto discrimination from gender segregation which is these days tended toward women-only spaces. (As a result of feminist gynocentricity IMO. Feminist type 1 see's no problem with gender segregated "safe spaces" and establishes women only spaces. Feminist type 2 hates gender segregation, and demands male only spaces be closed down or allow women to join. The result is that while either solution would result in a fair deal (though i'm anti-segregation), by both being demanded, their gynocentricity results in discrimination against men. This kind of thing is pretty common in my opinion, and it's why I regard "Women are more oppressed" narratives as inherently discriminatory.)

There's also the male crisis in education and the fact women are most of the teachers, which could be seen as women oppressing men.

Then there's the due process shenanigans in US universities and utilizing the rapist=male narrative. (Most teachers and students are women.)

If we also take the household and it's finances as institutional, theres the fact women discriminate against men in control of finances:
http://uk.businessinsider.com/breadwinn ... 015-3?r=US

(If man earns more, both partners are likely to discuss financial control. If woman earns more, she's likely to unilaterally decide how money is spent. Having your cake and eating it.)

There's the fact that female rapists and domestic abusers utilize institutional bias against male victims to further victimize their target with threats of false accusation.

In some western countries with shared maternity and paternity leave, it's the woman who decides how the time is split between the parents.

Theres the fact that the state is willing to pay money to help women overcome their biological reproductive disadvantage (mat leave.), but uses men's biology as a rationale to IMPOSE a disadvantage (child support.)

There's the fact that the media is hostile to men.
Etc.

But mostly this entire narrative of the OP's is just stupid because it assumes both sexes act as a monolith.
Sexist women and sexist men utilize sexist narratives and institutional prejudice for their own personal betterment. This victimizes women and men.

I'd actually challenge everyone here to find me a sexism issue that effects women that couldn't be solved by ending sexist treatment of men. (In the western world, at least.)


But really, the absolute coup de grace on this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E2%80%9CW ... %9D_effect

The phrase was coined by Eagly & Mladinic (1994) after finding that both male and female participants tend to assign exceptionally positive traits to the female gender

women's in-group biases were four times stronger than men's.

So yeh. Sexism against women isn't the problem.
It's a symptom, of sexism against men.
I'm willing to explain how any particular womens issue is caused by sexism against men. (Though not abortion. I'd say that one is fairly clear cut misogyny.)
I'm getting pretty tired of explaining this to people, frankly.

(By the way, i'd also say that some mens issues are caused by sexism against women.)

[Saiwania]

Women pretty much have equal rights with men. The ERA never passed, but still most feminism today doesn't actually talk about rights.

Exactly, since feminism has accomplished most of their root core ideological goals, there isn't as much for feminists to actually do in terms of political activism. So the natural evolution for feminism is to gradually veer towards pushing for female supremacy.

This is what camp the radical feminists will fall into, they will think that they are the ones doing the most to push the movement forward and thus will try to hijack control of it from the mainstream. Depending on how successful an agenda is, it is simply never enough for some adherents to rest on its laurels, there will always be people wanting more, to get away with as much as possible for further power.

[Sagredo]

I'd actually challenge everyone here to find me a sexism issue that effects women that couldn't be solved by ending sexist treatment of men. (In the western world, at least.)

(By the way, i'd also say that some mens issues are caused by sexism against women.)

Interesting. Let's talk about your men's issues. Apparently that's the subject now.

[Ostroeuropa]

I'd actually challenge everyone here to find me a sexism issue that effects women that couldn't be solved by ending sexist treatment of men. (In the western world, at least.)

(By the way, i'd also say that some mens issues are caused by sexism against women.)

Interesting. Let's talk about your men's issues. Apparently that's the subject now.

Oh I see, you don't actually want a solution to womens problems. You just want to whine about them?
Oh okay then, carry on.

Oh but wait, you want to be taken seriously at the same time?
We might have a problem.]

(By the way, the topic is Women being sexist against men. So you've kind of done exactly what you were implying I was. Funny.)