The New Face of Marriage

[EvilDarkMagicians]

The poll results is hilarious.

[Iniika]

If you read the article, you know that more women are getting degrees than men - this is a worrying trend.

If you read the article, you know that men are getting laid off their jobs at a greater rate than women - this is a worrying trend.

You can't pick and choose the parts of the article that support your argument without looking at those that support mine.

Now, let's play nice. If you don't like the taste of the words I put in your mouth you can understand why I don't like the taste of the words you put in mine.

You're really going to have to explain to me how more women than men getting university degrees is a sign of the coming male supression because I'm just not seeing it. I'm seeing it (in the positive) as more women are being motivated toward education or (in the negative) less men are being motivated toward higher education. This speaks more to me of personal ambition, rather than gender supression. Men aren't being denied education or being charged more for education, so this argument seems to be a conspiracy theory in your own mind, ie in the coming decades hoards of women brain surgeons are going to decend upon the male population and perform wide spread lobotomies so that the only purpose they would serve is as living sperm banks. Or something.

As far as more men being laid off than women... it's already been mentioned; the manufacturing industry is extremely sensative to economic changes. It is also a very male dominated industry. It kind of stands to reason then, that in a period of economic downturn, the most jobs lost would be in these market sensative industries... which are dominated by male workers.

[Iron Chariots]

I don't give a damn if my partner earns more than I do. The only reason to care about gender roles is tradition, which is a horrible justification.
To quote from somebody's (apologies, I forget whose) sig (I think on Jolt)--

Tradition is just a damn euphemism for "it's broken but we ain't fixin' it"

[The Parkus Empire]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRdfX7ut8gw

[Flameswroth]

in the coming decades hoards of women brain surgeons are going to decend upon the male population and perform wide spread lobotomies so that the only purpose they would serve is as living sperm banks.

I wasn't scared of the ramifications of the OP...until now. I'll be paranoid of that for a while now. Thanks for that.

[Flameswroth]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRdfX7ut8gw

1:22-1:32 makes me laugh every time.

[Jello Biafra]

I'd be happy as the stay-at-home spouse, with a husband who brought in the money. And arranged for the housework to be done.

[Sel Appa]

I would gladly work my ass off so my wife could stay at home. There are benefits to her having a source of income though...

Which ultimately leads to my critique of 1x1 marriage.

[Chrobalta]

The woman I marry can work if she wants, not work if she wants. I for one will work regardless of what she does.

[The High Lizzleness]

My husband (or wife) can work if (s)he likes, but if we have children, I'm not staying home, especially if I get the job I want, and my children are not going to a daycare, unless necessary. If economically we both HAVE to work, then fine, but if one of us is going to quit, it isn't going to be me.

[Venetoland]

But a movie I like has taught me certain things about food shopping:

1.Take from top of display
2.Never leave kid unattended in cart
3.Let wife do own "girly" shopping
4.Know what I want before getting to front of deli line
5.And, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, stay out of aisle 7!

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

FW, your framework is logically inconsistent.

[Flameswroth]

FW, your framework is logically inconsistent.

Yeah, I got that impression. Don't really think that way because it's logical though.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

Yeah, I got that impression. Don't really think that way because it's logical though.

If it's not logical, then why think that way?

[Barringtonia]

I like this new, abrasive ASD!

Huzzah!

[Cajunramfan]

In this day and age were lucky that people can decide what works best for them. im all for it as long as it doesnt harm the kids. i would love to have a husband who could cook (because i cant). just throwing that out there

[Barringtonia]

In this day and age were lucky that people can decide what works best for them. im all for it as long as it doesnt harm the kids. i would love to have a husband who could cook (because i cant). just throwing that out there

I suspect the generation from 21-39 missed the boat in that respect, men will quickly have to realise that cooking is an accomplishment.

I almost suspect men would be more efficient and happier in housework and women would be happier working to some extent.

[Cajunramfan]

In this day and age were lucky that people can decide what works best for them. im all for it as long as it doesnt harm the kids. i would love to have a husband who could cook (because i cant). just throwing that out there

I suspect the generation from 21-39 missed the boat in that respect, men will quickly have to realise that cooking is an accomplishment.

I almost suspect men would be more efficient and happier in housework and women would be happier working to some extent.

no kidding! im awful. all my guy friends and dad are amazing cooks. i cant even cut a potato right

[Tunizcha]

Who cares.

[The Congregationists]

You're really going to have to explain to me how more women than men getting university degrees is a sign of the coming male supression because I'm just not seeing it. I'm seeing it (in the positive) as more women are being motivated toward education or (in the negative) less men are being motivated toward higher education. This speaks more to me of personal ambition, rather than gender supression. Men aren't being denied education or being charged more for education, so this argument seems to be a conspiracy theory in your own mind, ie in the coming decades hoards of women brain surgeons are going to decend upon the male population and perform wide spread lobotomies so that the only purpose they would serve is as living sperm banks. Or something.

Given the way most women think of men these days, I wouldn't completely put that past them ...

It's also not been mentioned yet that other avenues of advancement, such as technical training and building trades, continue to be much more popular with men than with women, and offer income potential that often equals or exceeds that of a four year college degree, especially if said degree is in the arts, humanities or social sciences (which are more skewed towards women). So all of this kerfufle I've heard over women exceeding men in education is more scare than substance. That men opt for more technical and concrete professions while women opt for more client oriented, service and care oriented stuff doesn't come as a surprise to me at all, however politically incorrect it may seem. This is also a lot of what's driving the ongoing pay gap between men and women - the career and lifestyle choices made by each.

[Callisdrun]

If your traditional thought pattern doesn't pan out in reality, why keep it?

I think it does evidence itself in reality, which is why I keep it.

How does it evidence itself in realty?

You know, I have sat back the past few minutes and taken the time to ponder this. At first I speculated regarding several men I know who are home husbands and are a far cry from what I'd classify as real men, but that's no basis for such 'evidence', since I could be making it up as far as you know, AND it may be a far too limited pool to draw from. Then I thought maybe I'd call on that biological inequity, citing that women simply have babies, and in response men simply must work. But really, that's a false analogy and not really compelling even if it weren't.

So I will withdraw my claim that I have seen evidence of men being less than men for choosing to not have jobs, on those grounds and on the grounds that the definition of 'manliness', especially in the upcoming generation, does not necessarily agree with my own.

Instead, I will say this much -- the traditions of gender roles in marriages/parenting that were ingrained in me have put me in a mindset where, if I do not have a job, I am a failure as a man. I feel this is proper, and would think less of myself otherwise. In that sense I have a habit of mirroring that personal standard onto other men, though they may not share that same mentality. However, I will continue to reflect that onto men in my immediate social circle and behave accordingly.

So to really answer your question, paraphrased as 'how can one hold such an illogical standpoint with no real world subject matter to back it up', I suppose my answer is that it's comfortable for me to do so, since I've had these feeling instilled in me from my youth, and I don't care to change them now. Throw in a little insecurity too, as I would certainly feel like less of a man without a job.

Since the workplace is an invention of civilization, it's not down to biological inequalities.

As for a man earning less than his wife... I'm almost certain to. My ladyfriend of five years is going for her doctorate. I will probably get no more than a bachelor's, teaching credential or at most a master's. This doesn't really bother me. The money's all going the same place anyway.

I wouldn't mind being a househusband either. It was instilled in me when I was a kid that housework is important, especially with a high-maintenance house, and children. It isn't demeaning for women to stay at home or make less money than their husbands, so obviously it must not be demeaning for men to stay at home or make less money than their wives.

[Flameswroth]

Since the workplace is an invention of civilization, it's not down to biological inequalities.

Yeah, that's why I figured it wouldn't be a compelling argument. It'd be a desperate attempt at justification for a position I realize is not really, logically, supportable.

As for a man earning less than his wife... I'm almost certain to. My ladyfriend of five years is going for her doctorate. I will probably get no more than a bachelor's, teaching credential or at most a master's. This doesn't really bother me. The money's all going the same place anyway.

Well you're a better man than me. I could handle it, but it'd always be a little twinge at the back of my mind saying I was inadequate.

I wouldn't mind being a househusband either. It was instilled in me when I was a kid that housework is important, especially with a high-maintenance house, and children. It isn't demeaning for women to stay at home or make less money than their husbands, so obviously it must not be demeaning for men to stay at home or make less money than their wives.

I don't think it follows so obviously, but have no evidence to support it beyond my own opinion (which is not evidence at all), so I'll just say 'good on ya'.

[Wallonochia]

Yeah, that's why I figured it wouldn't be a compelling argument. It'd be a desperate attempt at justification for a position I realize is not really, logically, supportable.

Kudos to you for realizing that.

[Sun Aut Ex]

Can you explain to me what is so degrading about staying home or making less money than your partner?

There's actually been cases where the working wife lost so much respect for the stay at home husband that the marriage was destroyed. Think I actually read it that article on here, one upon a time.

[Flameswroth]

Can you explain to me what is so degrading about staying home or making less money than your partner?

There's actually been cases where the working wife lost so much respect for the stay at home husband that the marriage was destroyed. Think I actually read it that article on here, one upon a time.

Well to be fair, that could be attributed to restrictive mentality as well. That is to say, the woman may share my view of how men ought to be, while the man did not. So if anything, that's more of a testament to, "Whatever you want your role in a family to be, make sure the other person is okay with it". Which makes sense, really. If you expect your wife to work, for instance, and she just wants to be a stay-at-home wife, that's gonna cause issues too. If she wants to work and you want her to stay at home, same deal. Gotta get some agreement on that part.

I don't think 'accepting it but not being your first choice' is even a good option in that case, since it could eat away at them over time, as per the example you are citing (though I'd like to see such a thing if you knew where it was). She may have thought, "Alright I can deal with him being an at-home husband if I have to", and over time it just became too much to deal with mentally.

/shrug