Do Disney Movies Really Empower Young Girls?

[Sanctissima]

Are you saying that lesbians tend to be fat?

So 1950s housewives are lesbians?

I dunno, they spent a lot of time at home.

That probably got boring, after a while.

I imagine they experimented every now and then.

[Sanctissima]

Skinny?

No.

Taller, shorter, smaller or bigger-breasted?

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

Has it ever occurred to you that some children might not be fanatical Christians?

Don't have to be a fanatical Christian to notice that Disney is trying to make a character who is indecisive, cold, and generally weak a 'role-model'.

No they're not. Elsa is a tragic character. She is an example of what not to do in her kind of situation. Her screwing up is what creates the conflict in the story.

[The Rich Port]

Don't have to be a fanatical Christian to notice that Disney is trying to make a character who is indecisive, cold, and generally weak a 'role-model'.

No they're not. Elsa is a tragic character. She is an example of what not to do in her kind of situation. Her screwing up is what creates the conflict in the story.

And frankly, it's hardly her own fault she screws up.

She's surrounded on a daily basis by judgmental snobs who would gladly oust her out of power, apparently.

She left specifically because she was afraid of what they would think of her.

Not to mention one of them tried to murder her sister and tried to force a regency in the process.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

If Disney included a healthy lesbian relationship in one of their movies, then both characters would be heroines (can you imagine the outcry if they made them villainous? No chance they would risk it) of a similar age. Because of that, they would have the same body type, the "Disney heroine" look. Besides, from a merchandising standpoint making one of their characters accessories incompatible with the accessories of another character is stupid and costly, because they'd need an entire separate manufacturing process to accommodate it.

Eh, we're a lot more likely to see a lesbian relationship involve one or more background characters in my opinion. For instance, if one of the girls in the Big Hero 6 team had a girlfriend/wife who was not a supergenius scientist.

[Kaztropol]

No.

Taller, shorter, smaller or bigger-breasted?

No.

[Camicon]

No they're not. Elsa is a tragic character. She is an example of what not to do in her kind of situation. Her screwing up is what creates the conflict in the story.

And frankly, it's hardly her own fault she screws up.

She's surrounded on a daily basis by judgmental snobs who would gladly oust her out of power, apparently.

She left specifically because she was afraid of what they would think of her.

Not to mention one of them tried to murder her sister and tried to force a regency in the process.

All those nobles were actually from neighbouring kingdoms (you can catch a glimpse of Rapunzel and Flynn during Anna's song, actually). They were in Arendelle for Elsa's coronation. That's why Hans was looking to marry up. Elsa ran away because she was afraid of what her subjects would think of her, yes, but more because she was afraid of hurting them. The incident where she accidentally hurt Anna was obviously a very traumatic experience for her, and is the root cause of her inability to control her powers. She didn't want to repeat that, hence the isolated castle of ice.

[Sanctissima]

Taller, shorter, smaller or bigger-breasted?

No.

Then why would the doll-size be different?

[Kaztropol]

No.

Then why would the doll-size be different?

Because, people aren't all the same size/shape irl.

One of the other criticisms of dolls, is that they are the same size/shape. Conventional standards of attractiveness and all that.

a lesbian doll with a different size/shape could backfire, in the way I described earlier - creating an impression of otherness. At the same time, a lesbian doll with the same size/shape as other dolls runs into the conventional standards criticism.

[Camicon]

Then why would the doll-size be different?

Because, people aren't all the same size/shape irl.

One of the other criticisms of dolls, is that they are the same size/shape. Conventional standards of attractiveness and all that.

a lesbian doll with a different size/shape could backfire, in the way I described earlier - creating an impression of otherness. At the same time, a lesbian doll with the same size/shape as other dolls runs into the conventional standards criticism.

To clarify, this would be the toy line of a handful of fictional movie characters. If only because it's easier to produce, their accessories would be interchangeable. Even if the dolls were different shapes, their clothes don't have to be. It's not like they need to go for the perfect, tailored fit; they're dolls for Chrissake.

[Sanctissima]

Then why would the doll-size be different?

Because, people aren't all the same size/shape irl.

One of the other criticisms of dolls, is that they are the same size/shape. Conventional standards of attractiveness and all that.

a lesbian doll with a different size/shape could backfire, in the way I described earlier - creating an impression of otherness. At the same time, a lesbian doll with the same size/shape as other dolls runs into the conventional standards criticism.

I really doubt that anyone other than a few freelance journalists with nothing better to do would criticize lesbian Disney dolls that are the same size as other dolls.

[The Rich Port]

Because, people aren't all the same size/shape irl.

One of the other criticisms of dolls, is that they are the same size/shape. Conventional standards of attractiveness and all that.

a lesbian doll with a different size/shape could backfire, in the way I described earlier - creating an impression of otherness. At the same time, a lesbian doll with the same size/shape as other dolls runs into the conventional standards criticism.

I really doubt that anyone other than a few freelance journalists with nothing better to do would criticize lesbian Disney dolls that are the same size as other dolls.

I'm having serious problems understanding what his objection to "lesbian" dolls is.

Why would they look any different than other dolls?

Why should lesbian dolls look different, considering dolls are supposed to look like regular women; are lesbians not regular women?

[Kaztropol]

Because, people aren't all the same size/shape irl.

One of the other criticisms of dolls, is that they are the same size/shape. Conventional standards of attractiveness and all that.

a lesbian doll with a different size/shape could backfire, in the way I described earlier - creating an impression of otherness. At the same time, a lesbian doll with the same size/shape as other dolls runs into the conventional standards criticism.

I really doubt that anyone other than a few freelance journalists with nothing better to do would criticize lesbian Disney dolls that are the same size as other dolls.

Behold, the flaw of all internet discussion forum type thingmajigs.

[Luminesa]

Don't have to be a fanatical Christian to notice that Disney is trying to make a character who is indecisive, cold, and generally weak a 'role-model'.

No they're not. Elsa is a tragic character. She is an example of what not to do in her kind of situation. Her screwing up is what creates the conflict in the story.

True, true, I agree. Come to think of it, you just reminded me of Macbeth...which I am reading right now for English class. Of course, Macbeth is the ultimate tragic character in all of Shakespeare's plays, and it's because he gives in to his nutty wife that he goes and makes a monster out of himself.

Thanks for reminding me, now I have to go do my English homework...*Sigh.* (Oh well, at least I enjoy Shakespeare.)

[United Russian Soviet States]

It has.

So you understand that enforcing your personal concept of sin on other people is completely and entirely unacceptable, yes?

It is not.

[Camicon]

So you understand that enforcing your personal concept of sin on other people is completely and entirely unacceptable, yes?

It is not.

Morals and values that are socially imposed must be socially constructed. If your personal morals and values align with society's, great; if not, then you have no right to impose them on people that don't share them.

[United Russian Soviet States]

Elsa is not a good role-model for little girls. She practices magic.

[The Rich Port]

Elsa is not a good role-model for little girls. She practices magic.

What year are you living in, 1257?

[United Russian Soviet States]

Elsa is not a good role-model for little girls. She practices magic.

What year are you living in, 1257?

I am living in 2015.

[The Rich Port]

What year are you living in, 1257?

I am living in 2015.

No, your brain seems to be trapped in a time when there was no running water in most homes and people regularly died from minor diseases, which people believed to be demonic possession.

Because magic hasn't been bad since the 1800's, when the last woman was executed for witchcraft.

So how about you find an actual flaw of the character?

Or did you actually not watch the movie?

[Charellia]

Elsa is not a good role-model for little girls. She practices magic.

Which will obviously cause millions of young women to become sorceresses in order to emulate her. Oh wait, there's no such thing as magic, so fictional characters practicing it won't affect the real world in any way.

[Luminesa]

It is not.

Morals and values that are socially imposed must be socially constructed. If your personal morals and values align with society's, great; if not, then you have no right to impose them on people that don't share them.

Wait one cotton-pickin' minute, here...

Now, I know this might be edging along another thread, but bear with me just this once, before I go to bed. Know that I'm not judging you personally, I'm just explaining how that line of thinking doesn't work. Now, I'm assuming from the post above, you are referencing to some sort of relativism, which means, "Everything goes!" (Basically.) So the problem with your statement is that, if he has some sort of beliefs about sin, then by the order of relativism, you can't say his views are "completely and entirely unacceptable", because in relativism, there are no right or wrong morals.
And by saying that he can't impose his beliefs on others, you are effectively imposing your beliefs on him by saying what he can and can't do. You get what I'm saying?

Thus, to keep on topic, if I say that I don't like Elsa, by order of relativism, you can't tell me I'm wrong to say that, because with relativism, anything goes.

[Sun Wukong]

Morals and values that are socially imposed must be socially constructed. If your personal morals and values align with society's, great; if not, then you have no right to impose them on people that don't share them.

Wait one cotton-pickin' minute, here...

Now, I know this might be edging along another thread, but bear with me just this once, before I go to bed. Know that I'm not judging you personally, I'm just explaining how that line of thinking doesn't work. Now, I'm assuming from the post above, you are referencing to some sort of relativism, which means, "Everything goes!" (Basically.) So the problem with your statement is that, if he has some sort of beliefs about sin, then by the order of relativism, you can't say his views are "completely and entirely unacceptable", because in relativism, there are no right or wrong morals.
And by saying that he can't impose his beliefs on others, you are effectively imposing your beliefs on him by saying what he can and can't do. You get what I'm saying?

Thus, to keep on topic, if I say that I don't like Elsa, by order of relativism, you can't tell me I'm wrong to say that, because with relativism, anything goes.

No.

[Bezkoshtovnya]

Elsa is not a good role-model for little girls. She practices magic.

We all remember that rash of conflagrations and and newt transformations perpetrated by little girls. The response from most of them? They were trying to be Elsa.

[Sun Wukong]

Elsa is not a good role-model for little girls. She practices magic.

We all remember that rash of conflagrations and and newt transformations perpetrated by little girls. The response from most of them? They were trying to be Elsa.

Surely that would only proved that Disney does, in fact, empower young girls?