Do Disney Movies Really Empower Young Girls?

[Camicon]

I don't know about anyone else, but I can see a significant problem with lesbian characters in a Disney movie.

You see, the clothes for one of the dolls, would not necessarily fit the other dolls, because it is unlikely that both the lesbian characters in the movie would be of the exact same height, proportions, and skin colour. Therefore, for dolls based on those characters, the outfits will not be interchangeable, so when children are playing with the dolls, it limits their options for the two dolls to share clothes with their friend. This limitation, an artificial and unnecessary one, would have an adverse effect on the child's understanding of lesbian relationships.

I'm sorry, but what the hell?

You're arguing that lesbians shouldn't be portrayed in Disney movies because their clothes might not match?

You'll have to come up with something better than that.

*ahem*

Satire.

That is all.

[The Rich Port]

A good role-model? Decisive, intelligent, bold, a little plucky, compassionate, honorable...You know how that goes.

Yes, Anna is the good character. However, like I keep saying, Elsa gets more attention. So while Anna is the better character, it's Elsa that kids see more of.

If Elsa is being promoted as a good role model (rather than as a cautionary character. A "see kids? This is what happens when you let fear rule you"), it sure isn't happening in the movie. In fact, I'm fairly certain that Anna is onscreen more often than Elsa is. Elsa may be the focus of the movie, but she's the focus because she is the primary antagonist; her behaviour isn't promoted by the movie, it's condemned. All of the positive messages, with the exception of the climax, come out of moments when Anna acted.

Elsa may be marketed more aggressively, but it's because she is the more interesting character; that much is pretty obvious to anyone who's seen the movie. And without having seen the movie there's no reason to suspect that Elsa is a poor role model, and no reason to think that her bad behaviour is being promoted as a positive thing.

Antagonist is kind of a harsh word, don't you think... She's just misunderstood and afraid.

[Sanctissima]

I'm sorry, but what the hell?

You're arguing that lesbians shouldn't be portrayed in Disney movies because their clothes might not match?

You'll have to come up with something better than that.

*ahem*

Satire.

That is all.

Oh.

Umm, nevermind.

God I'm terrible at recognizing internet sarcasm.

[Camicon]

If Elsa is being promoted as a good role model (rather than as a cautionary character. A "see kids? This is what happens when you let fear rule you"), it sure isn't happening in the movie. In fact, I'm fairly certain that Anna is onscreen more often than Elsa is. Elsa may be the focus of the movie, but she's the focus because she is the primary antagonist; her behaviour isn't promoted by the movie, it's condemned. All of the positive messages, with the exception of the climax, come out of moments when Anna acted.

Elsa may be marketed more aggressively, but it's because she is the more interesting character; that much is pretty obvious to anyone who's seen the movie. And without having seen the movie there's no reason to suspect that Elsa is a poor role model, and no reason to think that her bad behaviour is being promoted as a positive thing.

Antagonist is kind of a harsh word, don't you think... She's just misunderstood and afraid.

Antagonist is not synonymous with "bad". It just means that the subject in question is the source of the primary conflict. Elsa creates that conflict because she is confused and afraid, not because she is a bad character.

[The United Colonies of Earth]

To be honest0, I thought Elsa was a bit of a bitch.

I mean, her she is with magic ice powers, and what does she do? Causes an ice age and locks herself up in a snow palace.

No wonder her subjects are grumpy all the time.

She was afraid she would hurt people and that she'd be seen as a witch.

As we saw by the movie, the monarchy already had pretenders to the throne. Can you imagine how much worse it would have been if people thought Elsa was dangerous?

There's be 5 shitty princes trying to stick it in and murder Anna.

Stick what in and where?

[Peregrine Nation]

We had this discussion a hundred times in my English class. My teacher was extremely vocal about this and I admit that i didn't want to believe it. Of course now that i look back on my childhood Disney movies i can see your point. they all told the girls to shut up, look pretty, nd change to get a man. ''sniffle' goodbye childhood innocence. "sniffle"

[Camicon]

We had this discussion a hundred times in my English class. My teacher was extremely vocal about this and I admit that i didn't want to believe it. Of course now that i look back on my childhood Disney movies i can see your point. they all told the girls to shut up, look pretty, nd change to get a man. ''sniffle' goodbye childhood innocence. "sniffle"

Mulan.

[Kaztropol]

I don't know about anyone else, but I can see a significant problem with lesbian characters in a Disney movie.

You see, the clothes for one of the dolls, would not necessarily fit the other dolls, because it is unlikely that both the lesbian characters in the movie would be of the exact same height, proportions, and skin colour. Therefore, for dolls based on those characters, the outfits will not be interchangeable, so when children are playing with the dolls, it limits their options for the two dolls to share clothes with their friend. This limitation, an artificial and unnecessary one, would have an adverse effect on the child's understanding of lesbian relationships.

I'm sorry, but what the hell?

You're arguing that lesbians shouldn't be portrayed in Disney movies because their clothes might not match?

You'll have to come up with something better than that.

No, I am not arguing they shouldn't be portrayed in Disney movies.

I am stating that the character design, and the consequent effect on doll and doll clothing design, is important to get right.
Because, for the target audience of Disney films, dolls of the major characters are important.

Often, play involving dolls has scenarios that are unlikely, or cross literary genres.

E.g. Say there's a lesbian character in a film, we'll call her Louella, there are dolls of her.
The dolls of Astronaut Barbie, Disney Snow White, Frozen Elsa, and Louella are going on holiday to the beach, in Astronaut Barbies pink Trans-Am. They decide to go shopping for outfits. But, while Astronaut Barbie, Snow White and Elsa can share outfits, poor Louella is only able to wear her own clothes. This puts her, into the role of Outsider.

And that could be a problem, in the child's development of an understanding about lesbian relationships.

[Liriena]

We had this discussion a hundred times in my English class. My teacher was extremely vocal about this and I admit that i didn't want to believe it. Of course now that i look back on my childhood Disney movies i can see your point. they all told the girls to shut up, look pretty, nd change to get a man. ''sniffle' goodbye childhood innocence. "sniffle"

Mulan.

Mary Poppins.

Single, sassy, and does whatever the hell she wants.

[The United Colonies of Earth]

I'm sorry, but what the hell?

You're arguing that lesbians shouldn't be portrayed in Disney movies because their clothes might not match?

You'll have to come up with something better than that.

No, I am not arguing they shouldn't be portrayed in Disney movies.

I am stating that the character design, and the consequent effect on doll and doll clothing design, is important to get right.
Because, for the target audience of Disney films, dolls of the major characters are important.

Often, play involving dolls has scenarios that are unlikely, or cross literary genres.

E.g. Say there's a lesbian character in a film, we'll call her Louella, there are dolls of her.
The dolls of Astronaut Barbie, Disney Snow White, Frozen Elsa, and Louella are going on holiday to the beach, in Astronaut Barbies pink Trans-Am. They decide to go shopping for outfits. But, while Astronaut Barbie, Snow White and Elsa can share outfits, poor Louella is only able to wear her own clothes. This puts her, into the role of Outsider.

And that could be a problem, in the child's development of an understanding about lesbian relationships.

Why would Disney make the two lesbians in this hypothetical movie physically incompatible with each other and other movies?

[Camicon]

I'm sorry, but what the hell?

You're arguing that lesbians shouldn't be portrayed in Disney movies because their clothes might not match?

You'll have to come up with something better than that.

No, I am not arguing they shouldn't be portrayed in Disney movies.

I am stating that the character design, and the consequent effect on doll and doll clothing design, is important to get right.
Because, for the target audience of Disney films, dolls of the major characters are important.

Often, play involving dolls has scenarios that are unlikely, or cross literary genres.

E.g. Say there's a lesbian character in a film, we'll call her Louella, there are dolls of her.
The dolls of Astronaut Barbie, Disney Snow White, Frozen Elsa, and Louella are going on holiday to the beach, in Astronaut Barbies pink Trans-Am. They decide to go shopping for outfits. But, while Astronaut Barbie, Snow White and Elsa can share outfits, poor Louella is only able to wear her own clothes. This puts her, into the role of Outsider.

And that could be a problem, in the child's development of an understanding about lesbian relationships.

Wait, are you actually being serious? Disney's heroines are all the same body type. If their dolls are made in a series together then they're going to be the same size. Why would Disney make a lesbian character have a different body type?

[The Rich Port]

She was afraid she would hurt people and that she'd be seen as a witch.

As we saw by the movie, the monarchy already had pretenders to the throne. Can you imagine how much worse it would have been if people thought Elsa was dangerous?

There's be 5 shitty princes trying to stick it in and murder Anna.

Stick what in and where?

Well... Y'see United... When a princess and a slimy pretender to the throne one-sidedly love each other very much...

Daggers get unsheathed and then resheathed... And... It gets messy.

[Liriena]

You see, the clothes for one of the dolls, would not necessarily fit the other dolls, because it is unlikely that both the lesbian characters in the movie would be of the exact same height, proportions, and skin colour. Therefore, for dolls based on those characters, the outfits will not be interchangeable, so when children are playing with the dolls, it limits their options for the two dolls to share clothes with their friend. This limitation, an artificial and unnecessary one, would have an adverse effect on the child's understanding of lesbian relationships.

[Camicon]

Mulan.

Mary Poppins.

Single, sassy, and does whatever the hell she wants.

Also a witch, with God-only-knows occult powers, and shape-shifting spirits at her beck and call.

[Sanctissima]

I'm sorry, but what the hell?

You're arguing that lesbians shouldn't be portrayed in Disney movies because their clothes might not match?

You'll have to come up with something better than that.

No, I am not arguing they shouldn't be portrayed in Disney movies.

I am stating that the character design, and the consequent effect on doll and doll clothing design, is important to get right.
Because, for the target audience of Disney films, dolls of the major characters are important.

Often, play involving dolls has scenarios that are unlikely, or cross literary genres.

E.g. Say there's a lesbian character in a film, we'll call her Louella, there are dolls of her.
The dolls of Astronaut Barbie, Disney Snow White, Frozen Elsa, and Louella are going on holiday to the beach, in Astronaut Barbies pink Trans-Am. They decide to go shopping for outfits. But, while Astronaut Barbie, Snow White and Elsa can share outfits, poor Louella is only able to wear her own clothes. This puts her, into the role of Outsider.

And that could be a problem, in the child's development of an understanding about lesbian relationships.

Why would the lesbian one have a different doll-size?

[Peregrine Nation]

Mary Poppins.

Single, sassy, and does whatever the hell she wants.

Also a witch, with God-only-knows occult powers, and shape-shifting spirits at her beck and call.

true, true. Note to self bring this up in english!

[Kaztropol]

Why would Disney make the two lesbians in this hypothetical movie physically incompatible with each other and other movies?

Well-meaning intentions that have unintended consequences.

Wait, are you actually being serious? Disney's heroines are all the same body type. If their dolls are made in a series together then they're going to be the same size. Why would Disney make a lesbian character have a different body type?

pseudo-serious.

Depends on whether they are the heroine, or the heroine's friend or sidekick or advisor. Heroines are compatible with each other, friends and others are less so. iirc, Barbie's sister is shorter than Barbie. Also, the Fairy Godmother is somewhat chubbier than Cinderella, at least in the film version that I think I saw.


The dolls are the only real issue that there is, about the inclusion of lesbian characters in Disney movies.

[The United Colonies of Earth]

Stick what in and where?

Well... Y'see United... When a princess and a slimy pretender to the throne one-sidedly love each other very much...

Daggers get unsheathed and then resheathed... And... It gets messy.

The two connotations are getting mixed up in my head...holy shit.

[Camicon]

Why would Disney make the two lesbians in this hypothetical movie physically incompatible with each other and other movies?

Well-meaning intentions that have unintended consequences.

Wait, are you actually being serious? Disney's heroines are all the same body type. If their dolls are made in a series together then they're going to be the same size. Why would Disney make a lesbian character have a different body type?

pseudo-serious.

Depends on whether they are the heroine, or the heroine's friend or sidekick or advisor. Heroines are compatible with each other, friends and others are less so. iirc, Barbie's sister is shorter than Barbie. Also, the Fairy Godmother is somewhat chubbier than Cinderella, at least in the film version that I think I saw.


The dolls are the only real issue that there is, about the inclusion of lesbian characters in Disney movies.

If Disney included a healthy lesbian relationship in one of their movies, then both characters would be heroines (can you imagine the outcry if they made them villainous? No chance they would risk it) of a similar age. Because of that, they would have the same body type, the "Disney heroine" look. Besides, from a merchandising standpoint making one of their characters accessories incompatible with the accessories of another character is stupid and costly, because they'd need an entire separate manufacturing process to accommodate it.

[The Rich Port]

Well... Y'see United... When a princess and a slimy pretender to the throne one-sidedly love each other very much...

Daggers get unsheathed and then resheathed... And... It gets messy.

The two connotations are getting mixed up in my head...holy shit.

You'd be surprised just how much murder has in common with sex.

For example: a slang term for "to have an orgasm" is "to die."

La petite mort.

[Sanctissima]

Why would Disney make the two lesbians in this hypothetical movie physically incompatible with each other and other movies?

Well-meaning intentions that have unintended consequences.

Wait, are you actually being serious? Disney's heroines are all the same body type. If their dolls are made in a series together then they're going to be the same size. Why would Disney make a lesbian character have a different body type?

pseudo-serious.

Depends on whether they are the heroine, or the heroine's friend or sidekick or advisor. Heroines are compatible with each other, friends and others are less so. iirc, Barbie's sister is shorter than Barbie. Also, the Fairy Godmother is somewhat chubbier than Cinderella, at least in the film version that I think I saw.


The dolls are the only real issue that there is, about the inclusion of lesbian characters in Disney movies.

Are you saying that lesbians tend to be fat?

[Kaztropol]

Well-meaning intentions that have unintended consequences.



pseudo-serious.

Depends on whether they are the heroine, or the heroine's friend or sidekick or advisor. Heroines are compatible with each other, friends and others are less so. iirc, Barbie's sister is shorter than Barbie. Also, the Fairy Godmother is somewhat chubbier than Cinderella, at least in the film version that I think I saw.


The dolls are the only real issue that there is, about the inclusion of lesbian characters in Disney movies.

Are you saying that lesbians tend to be fat?

No.

[Benuty]

Well-meaning intentions that have unintended consequences.



pseudo-serious.

Depends on whether they are the heroine, or the heroine's friend or sidekick or advisor. Heroines are compatible with each other, friends and others are less so. iirc, Barbie's sister is shorter than Barbie. Also, the Fairy Godmother is somewhat chubbier than Cinderella, at least in the film version that I think I saw.


The dolls are the only real issue that there is, about the inclusion of lesbian characters in Disney movies.

Are you saying that lesbians tend to be fat?

So 1950s housewives are lesbians?

[Sanctissima]

Are you saying that lesbians tend to be fat?

No.

Skinny?

[Kaztropol]

No.

Skinny?

No.