Do Disney Movies Really Empower Young Girls?

[Tahar Joblis]

"Girlpower," yes. Anti-male? A bit. Every single evil character in the film is male, every single female character is unambiguously good.

LGBT, not particularly. "It's OK to be born different" is a message that's considerably wider than even the larger GSM community. It could be viewed as allegorically pro-gay, but in an era where it's perfectly acceptable to have gay characters on screen, an interpretation as allegory is pretty tame stuff.

Elsa is unambiguously good?

From within the perspective of the film and the film-makers, yes.

From a critical analysis of the film, no; ambiguity certainly arises when you are critiquing the film, and really quite reasonably so in this particular case. It's fairly easy to make a case for Elsa being not good at all.

[Camicon]

Elsa is unambiguously good?

From within the perspective of the film and the film-makers, yes.

From a critical analysis of the film, no; ambiguity certainly arises when you are critiquing the film, and really quite reasonably so in this particular case. It's fairly easy to make a case for Elsa being not good at all.

It's worth bearing in mind that "good" and "bad" and not synonyms for "protagonist" and "antagonist". Elsa can be good as well as the primary antagonist.

[Aeyariss]

Empowering? Maybe. But one thing for sure, Disney is merely reaching out to the so called feminist demography for wider viewers exposure and profits.

[Tahar Joblis]

From within the perspective of the film and the film-makers, yes.

From a critical analysis of the film, no; ambiguity certainly arises when you are critiquing the film, and really quite reasonably so in this particular case. It's fairly easy to make a case for Elsa being not good at all.

It's worth bearing in mind that "good" and "bad" and not synonyms for "protagonist" and "antagonist". Elsa can be good as well as the primary antagonist.

In Disneyprincessville, there are "the good guys" and "villains." Occasionally some morally ambiguous characters show up, but it's one of the features of the genre that morality of characters is generally presented to the audience and is often one-dimensional.

Elsa was originally intended to be a villain - an evil person, pure and simple - and was redrawn (OK, redesigned and reanimated) to be clearly a good person. Why was she redrawn? Because in Disneyprincessville, you can see evil and good. Most of the time, at least. The viewer is quite transparently invited to view Elsa as being good... intentionally so. They make quite a substantial effort to get across that Elsa is good.

Now, if you want to objectively evaluate the actual morality of the [fictional] acts she is presented as doing, as a "good" person with ice magic issues, you can make a case that maybe she isn't actually all that good. However, even after you do so, it remains the fact that she is presented as good to the audience.

[United Russian Soviet States]

Planned Parenthood goes beyond basic women's rights. They are a part of a radical feminist agenda. Disney supports them. I would like someone like Joe McCarthy to come a long and expose Disney's leftist agenda. There is proof of my allegations against The Walt Disney Company.
Elsa is the deuteragonist.
If Elsa is the first lesbian princess, the movie deserves to be burned. Not by the government, but by private citizens.

Yeah isn't burning media that went against their teachings what the Nazis did?

The Nazis did do that. That is why I said the government shouldn't do it.

[United Russian Soviet States]

"If Elsa is the first lesbian princess, the movie deserves to be burned. Not by the government, but by private citizens."



Why?

People can show they will not tolerate the wicked agenda in that film. It would be worse than 50 Shades of Grey since it is aimed at children.

[Camicon]

Yeah isn't burning media that went against their teachings what the Nazis did?

The Nazis did do that. That is why I said the government shouldn't do it.

Because it's not like the government is an extension of the citizens or anything. Ha! That would be ridiculous... right?

[Insaeldor]

"If Elsa is the first lesbian princess, the movie deserves to be burned. Not by the government, but by private citizens."



Why?

People can show they will not tolerate the wicked agenda in that film. It would be worse than 50 Shades of Grey since it is aimed at children.

Or you know... Just not watching it is always a more constructive way of doing things. I mean if you burn them you would have to buy them and then you're just paying Disney to show disapproval of Disney. Unless you steal them in witch case you can be arrested for theft.

So yeah just not watching it is probably your best option,

[Caribica]

Yeah isn't burning media that went against their teachings what the Nazis did?

The Nazis did do that. That is why I said the government shouldn't do it.

The Nazis held no power in the German Government until 1933, before that they still burned things that opposed them.

[Nemo2020]

Disney movies empowered my sister as much as the Hearts of Iron video game series made me a dictator in South America.

[CTALNH]

No they are just recreating very old very grim tales into an animated pg rating.

In other words no raping the sleeping beauty,no Ariel pussing out like a bitch and no fairy godmother and the sisters of the girl cutting their toes to make their feet fit into the shoe.


Its bullshit I say.

[-United Islamic Emirates-]

No

[Bezkoshtovnya]

"If Elsa is the first lesbian princess, the movie deserves to be burned. Not by the government, but by private citizens."



Why?

People can show they will not tolerate the wicked agenda in that film. It would be worse than 50 Shades of Grey since it is aimed at children.

How about you just not watch it if you do not personally like it? Gee, that sounds much simpler.

[The Huskar Social Union]

People can show they will not tolerate the wicked agenda in that film. It would be worse than 50 Shades of Grey since it is aimed at children.

How about you just not watch it if you do not personally like it? Gee, that sounds much simpler.

That would be too simple. Come now this is the internet.

[Tigeria]

"If Elsa is the first lesbian princess, the movie deserves to be burned. Not by the government, but by private citizens."



Why?

People can show they will not tolerate the wicked agenda in that film. It would be worse than 50 Shades of Grey since it is aimed at children.

Except frozen is nowhere near 50 shades of gray and the wicked agenda you speak of is love, self acceptance, and singing snowmen.

[Liriena]

(Image)

Actually, had Belle from Beauty and the Beast suffered from Stockholm syndrome, she would have begun to act affectionately towards the Beast while he was being abusive, as a way of avoiding the abuse, not after he began to change his behaviour.

[Liriena]

If Elsa is the first lesbian princess, the movie deserves to be burned. Not by the government, but by private citizens.

Why do you feel such a visceral, violent hatred towards fictional lesbian characters?

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

(Image)

Actually, had Belle from Beauty and the Beast suffered from Stockholm syndrome, she would have begun to act affectionately towards the Beast while he was being abusive, as a way of avoiding the abuse, not after he began to change his behaviour.

I don't actually think that's how Stockholm Syndrome works. From my understanding, it's usually dependent on small kindnesses, or honeymoon periods between rounds of abuse.

[The States of Balloon]

No

We care so much about your simple opinion and in no way require you to explain why you hold that opinion.

[Liriena]

Actually, had Belle from Beauty and the Beast suffered from Stockholm syndrome, she would have begun to act affectionately towards the Beast while he was being abusive, as a way of avoiding the abuse, not after he began to change his behaviour.

I don't actually think that's how Stockholm Syndrome works. From my understanding, it's usually dependent on small kindnesses, or honeymoon periods between rounds of abuse.

You might have a point.

[Prezelly]

No, same as super hero movies not empowering young boys

[United Russian Soviet States]

People can show they will not tolerate the wicked agenda in that film. It would be worse than 50 Shades of Grey since it is aimed at children.

How about you just not watch it if you do not personally like it? Gee, that sounds much simpler.

I find it interesting.

If Elsa is the first lesbian princess, the movie deserves to be burned. Not by the government, but by private citizens.

Why do you feel such a visceral, violent hatred towards fictional lesbian characters?

The problem here is that Elsa would be aimed at children and portrayed if she is lesbian. I don't really have a problem with lesbian characters in films for older people.

[Atomic Utopia]

How about you just not watch it if you do not personally like it? Gee, that sounds much simpler.

I find it interesting.

Why do you feel such a visceral, violent hatred towards fictional lesbian characters?

The problem here is that Elsa would be aimed at children and portrayed if she is lesbian. I don't really have a problem with lesbian characters in films for older people.

What exactly is special about that group of people that it cannot be shown in a childrens movie?

What, do you think that it will "corrupt the youth"?

[United Russian Soviet States]

I find it interesting.
The problem here is that Elsa would be aimed at children and portrayed if she is lesbian. I don't really have a problem with lesbian characters in films for older people.

What exactly is special about that group of people that it cannot be shown in a childrens movie?

What, do you think that it will "corrupt the youth"?

I do.

[Robert Magoo]

I honestly think that people are expecting too much out of these movies.

I've seen a lot of arguments from many perspectives about what does or doesn't make a Disney princess a good role model, what she needs to do, what she represents, what she does means in the grander scope of things, and I've since come to the conclusion that these movies will never be able to do anything right in the eyes of people who want to find fault in them. "Cinderella is sexist because she cleans and was quiet and it's rewarded!" "No, Mulan is sexist because it says women need to do something big and spectacular to be equal instead of it just happening!" For as long as Disney princess movies will exist, these girls will never be able to do anything right. The biggest problem I believe is that people have tendency to assume that their own personal interpretations are THE interpretations, and that these are the ideas that MUST also be filling the heads of everyone else who watches them as well. Anything even slightly smacking of something that could be considered a "typical societal expectation" is ripped out, dragged before a jeering audience, and pointed at with cries of, "LOOK! LOOK! SEE HOW THEY VIEW WOMEN! ISN'T IT DESPICABLE?!"

But what exactly WOULD be the "ideal" Disney princess for girls? Should she be beautiful? Oh, but then we're saying women only matter for their looks. Should she be plain-looking? Oh, but then we're saying that a girl must be "masculine" to be successful. Should she be brave? Oh, but then we're saying girls can't be human beings with doubts and fears. Should she be anxious about the world? Oh, but then she's just a scared weakling. Should she fall in love with a man? Oh, but then we're being heteronormative. Should she not fall in love at all? Oh, but then we're saying there's something wrong with being in love. Should she be polite and friendly? Oh, but then we're pushing the idea that girls have to be sweet maternal figures. Should she be rowdy and loud? Oh, but then we're equating rudeness with self-confidence. Should she have a prince save the day? Oh, but then she's being a typical helpless damsel. Should she save the day? Oh, but then we're saying that women need to work extra hard for recognition. Should she have any contact with any male sentient beings at all whatsoever? Oh, but then all her achievements will be an indirect result of the man and not her!

These characters are supposed to be characters, not flawless idols to be held up as the perfect specimen for all women everywhere to model their whole lives after. A character is not meant to be perfect, and different people with different values and ways of internalizing things will approach those imperfections in their own ways. Most likely, if you already like a character, you're far more likely to seek out traits about them that you already valued and brush off the ones that you don't. Most people, especially children, are not laying these character down on a surgeon's table and nitpicking them with tweezers for anything that could possibly be construed as evidence of a grand culture of oppression.

While it's important that young girls have examples in their media that can empower them, it doesn't mean that anything that falls even the slightest bit short of the ideal is automatically going to send them spiraling downward into a whirlpool of misogynistic self-loathing. Disney movies, ultimately, will always be a product of their time. Ultimately, they will always choose telling a story over writing The Women's (or Men's) Bible On How to Be the Perfect Example of Your Sex. Individuals are a lot more self-reliant than too many of you give them credit; creation of self-regard and self-image is an extremely complicated and intricate process for every human being, and I think you'll find that a couple of cartoons, while possibly serving some influence for some people, are ultimately are just a drop in the ocean of their overall experiences. How about instead of trying to create Princess Apex Woman 5000, we focus on making the real world a place our girls can learn about mastering themselves from--in whatever way they choose to do so.

You win the thread.