Do Disney Movies Really Empower Young Girls?

[Forsher]

I love that the empowerment of our daughters is some sort of burden nowadays.

Pfft, the fuck am I talking about, nowadays? It's always been that way.

It's easy to make a lot of films that don't require new plots and aren't based on specific works (e.g. like fairy tales, not like Harry Potter).

I didn't know I was supposed to look for the meaning of life in film.

...

There's literally a film called the Meaning of Life? How have you missed such a well known fact?

Thanks! I love to talk about character development, so I saw this particular thread and I was like, "Oh my gosh, I have GOT to post something."

I'm happy you did post as you articulated my thoughts much more eloquently than I could. When discussion arose about Mulan having to be epic my thoughts first turned to the male Disney lead characters like Mowgli of The jungle Book (I can't say I remember any other male leads from Disney other than Simba and the Aztec Llama-king) Sure Tarzan protects his family, and Simba confronts his evil uncle and recalims his throne? But did they really do anything as epic as Mulan?, Mowgli overcomes Sher Khan but the movie ends with nothing more epic than him meeting a girl who eventually leads him back to mans-village. If Mowgli was a Disney Princess would he be judged on this final act or on his portrayal and development across the whole movie? I think the later.

Robin Hood frees basically an entire town from lock up, engages in some serious anti-corruption efforts and jumps from a burning tower (and kind of helps a prince get arrested). Never seen Disney's Mulan and I am not familiar (any more) with the story, but that's fairly epic. Certainly, more so than Mowgli, which, to be fair, like Tarzan is a more personal scale film.

[Dracoria]

Western corporation marketing to Western audiences presents Westernized stories. Seems like some kind of conspiracy to me.

I don't think you understand, Disney is not limited to the west.

I understand where the money is, and you need to look at that. Yes, Disney is not limited to the West. But the West (In particular the Anglosphere and to a slightly lesser extent Latin America and continental Europe) is its target audience, where the largest chunk of its cash is coming from. Until Asia becomes a huge part of Disney's core market rather than a fringe market that happens to be where all the merchandise is manufactured, the decision-makers just won't give a damn.

[Naushantiya]

I don't think you understand, Disney is not limited to the west.

I understand where the money is, and you need to look at that. Yes, Disney is not limited to the West. But the West (In particular the Anglosphere and to a slightly lesser extent Latin America and continental Europe) is its target audience, where the largest chunk of its cash is coming from. Until Asia becomes a huge part of Disney's core market rather than a fringe market that happens to be where all the merchandise is manufactured, the decision-makers just won't give a damn.

Disney's presence in Latin America is minimal, that being said I think one should look at disney's activities and it's total market share in relation to other channels. I think one needs to look at the alternative provided in that particular region. Personally, I would favour banning disney and developing indigenous Cartoons. Disney owns nearly all the kids Channels in India and is aggressively expanding in China with Theme parks. The only Indian Kids channel that existed was Hungama, which was owned by UTV but Disney had acquired UTV for Rs 20 Billion. The only competition that disney faces in this region is Pogo and Cartoon Network , which is again run by Turner corporation ( lol)

[Edgy Opinions]

Disney's presence in Latin America is minimal

[Luminesa]

What's also awesome about Mulan is, sure, like Elsa (I hate Elsa, to be clear here. In my opinion, she is the worst Disney princess of all time.), she feels trapped by her fate and she suffers from some major insecurities. She also has a big song about it ("Reflection", which, unlike "Let It Go", I love), but instead of her development ending there, she spends the rest of the movie fighting her fears, becoming a stronger character, and she even has time to fall in love, somewhere in-between. She lives and breathes as a cool, complex character, all while still remaining a girl at heart, even while she fights alongside the guys. They say that to be able to conquer the world, you've got to first conquer yourself. That's what makes Mulan awesome. She's not afraid to fight her fears and her self-doubt, and sometimes she does fall short. Nevertheless, unlike Elsa, Mulan and truly comes to see that she is capable of doing good, and despite everything, she goes out and she does it.

You do know Anna is the hero in Frozen, yeah? Not sure why you are so hung up on this beef with Elsa...

I agree. Anna is cool, and I love Anna. She's spunky, sweet, and lovable. I loved her, in the movie. But she doesn't get the same exposure, per say, that Elsa gets. I mean, Elsa has the movie's theme song, and she's the first character most people think of, from the movie. We see Idina Menzel all the time, we never see Anna's actress, who didn't do a bad job herself. Not to mention I am sick and tired of hearing "Let It Go", the most pointless Disney movie song ever written.

My problem with Elsa herself is how Disney tried to make her this "progressive", "positive" character, when she really is an awfully underdeveloped and scattered character.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

I get it. I do. The 'message' and all that being important to many. Still, sometimes I'd like to just sit back and enjoy a move ... for being a movie. A story. Just something for entertainment. And if people want to draw something from it, apply meaning to it, or a character, or event contained therein? Fine and well. But I really am starting to tire of the politicizing and agenda-applying involved in too many critiques and criticisms of movies and the like. I don't want my entertainment to have to pass a Politically-Correct test prior to release. I don't want there to have to be the perfectly-PC plots, or percentages of $choose-your-agenda-or-angle ideas or topics touched on.

And if, perhaps, I want to envision myself as the pretty pretty princess who gets swept away and lives happily ever after, I certainly don't want some well-meaning person telling me I shouldn't imagine those sorts of things because they aren't 'empowering enough' or 'cater to an outdated patriarchal world view'.

To quote one that's been brought up?

"Let it go."

[The States of Balloon]

I get it. I do. The 'message' and all that being important to many. Still, sometimes I'd like to just sit back and enjoy a move ... for being a movie. A story. Just something for entertainment. And if people want to draw something from it, apply meaning to it, or a character, or event contained therein? Fine and well. But I really am starting to tire of the politicizing and agenda-applying involved in too many critiques and criticisms of movies and the like. I don't want my entertainment to have to pass a Politically-Correct test prior to release. I don't want there to have to be the perfectly-PC plots, or percentages of $choose-your-agenda-or-angle ideas or topics touched on.

And if, perhaps, I want to envision myself as the pretty pretty princess who gets swept away and lives happily ever after, I certainly don't want some well-meaning person telling me I shouldn't imagine those sorts of things because they aren't 'empowering enough' or 'cater to an outdated patriarchal world view'.

To quote one that's been brought up?

"Let it go."

Never!

[Bezkoshtovnya]

That's because you're crazy.

Explain why they contribute to Planned Parenthood.

Because they support basic women's rights? How does this equate to Disney being a bunch of communist femenist radicals? Is there even proof of your allegations?

[Naushantiya]

I get it. I do. The 'message' and all that being important to many. Still, sometimes I'd like to just sit back and enjoy a move ... for being a movie. A story. Just something for entertainment. And if people want to draw something from it, apply meaning to it, or a character, or event contained therein? Fine and well. But I really am starting to tire of the politicizing and agenda-applying involved in too many critiques and criticisms of movies and the like. I don't want my entertainment to have to pass a Politically-Correct test prior to release. I don't want there to have to be the perfectly-PC plots, or percentages of $choose-your-agenda-or-angle ideas or topics touched on.

And if, perhaps, I want to envision myself as the pretty pretty princess who gets swept away and lives happily ever after, I certainly don't want some well-meaning person telling me I shouldn't imagine those sorts of things because they aren't 'empowering enough' or 'cater to an outdated patriarchal world view'.

To quote one that's been brought up?

"Let it go."

Ok let me put it this way to you Dread, Let us say that the United States lost the cold war and the most of the TV channels exist are soviet channels, One of them is Sovietney, and now let us assume that you have a child whose age can range from 4-12 and he continuously watches Sovietney channel, Would you like the indoctrination ? Do you think is it right for Disney/Sovietney to indoctrinate children with Western/Soviet impressions of the world at such a young and tender age ?


It is Disney and other Western media outlets that clearly have an agenda

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

I agree. Anna is cool, and I love Anna. She's spunky, sweet, and lovable. I loved her, in the movie. But she doesn't get the same exposure, per say, that Elsa gets. I mean, Elsa has the movie's theme song, and she's the first character most people think of, from the movie. We see Idina Menzel all the time, we never see Anna's actress, who didn't do a bad job herself. Not to mention I am sick and tired of hearing "Let It Go", the most pointless Disney movie song ever written.

My problem with Elsa herself is how Disney tried to make her this "progressive", "positive" character, when she really is an awfully underdeveloped and scattered character.

Do you know why she seems scattered? Because she's just found out that it's no longer possible for her to fit herself within (her perception of) the social expectations she's held to. A lot of social liberals have felt that way at some point in their lives, which is why we identify with her.

Elsa is actually the primary antagonist of the movie, and antagonists are often the most popular characters. Scar, Malefescent, etc. Despite our empathy for her, she is the cause of the problems that Anna needs to overcome.

I don't know where you're coming from saying that Elsa is underdeveloped. Her character arc is almost all development, and we see her come to terms with a new perception of who she is onscreen.

[Charellia]

I get it. I do. The 'message' and all that being important to many. Still, sometimes I'd like to just sit back and enjoy a move ... for being a movie. A story. Just something for entertainment. And if people want to draw something from it, apply meaning to it, or a character, or event contained therein? Fine and well. But I really am starting to tire of the politicizing and agenda-applying involved in too many critiques and criticisms of movies and the like. I don't want my entertainment to have to pass a Politically-Correct test prior to release. I don't want there to have to be the perfectly-PC plots, or percentages of $choose-your-agenda-or-angle ideas or topics touched on.

And if, perhaps, I want to envision myself as the pretty pretty princess who gets swept away and lives happily ever after, I certainly don't want some well-meaning person telling me I shouldn't imagine those sorts of things because they aren't 'empowering enough' or 'cater to an outdated patriarchal world view'.

To quote one that's been brought up?

"Let it go."

Ok let me put it this way to you Dread, Let us say that the United States lost the cold war and the most of the TV channels exist are soviet channels, One of them is Sovietney, and now let us assume that you have a child whose age can range from 4-12 and he continuously watches Sovietney channel, Would you like the indoctrination ? Do you think is it right for Disney/Sovietney to indoctrinate children with Western/Soviet impressions of the world at such a young and tender age ?


It is Disney and other Western media outlets that clearly have an agenda

It is pretty hard for western children not to be indoctrinated with a western worldview, unless you want to lock them in a room with no outside contact until they grow up. It is hardly Disney's fault that their movies are coloured by western values, they just happen to be a western company.

[Naushantiya]

snipped

It is pretty hard for western children not to be indoctrinated with a western worldview, unless you want to lock them in a room with no outside contact until they grow up. It is hardly Disney's fault that their movies are coloured by western values, they just happen to be a western company.

snipped

I don't think you understand, Disney is not limited to the west.

[Bezkoshtovnya]

It is pretty hard for western children not to be indoctrinated with a western worldview, unless you want to lock them in a room with no outside contact until they grow up. It is hardly Disney's fault that their movies are coloured by western values, they just happen to be a western company.

I don't think you understand, Disney is not limited to the west.

As he said, they are a western company. Hardly their fault or an agenda.

[Charellia]

It is pretty hard for western children not to be indoctrinated with a western worldview, unless you want to lock them in a room with no outside contact until they grow up. It is hardly Disney's fault that their movies are coloured by western values, they just happen to be a western company.

I don't think you understand, Disney is not limited to the west.

So what do you want them to do? Stop telling the stories which have made them so iconic? Abandon the storytelling traditions of their own culture?

[Naushantiya]

So what do you want them to do? Stop telling the stories which have made them so iconic? Abandon the storytelling traditions of their own culture?

They are free to do so in their own country, I firmly believe that this Turner-Nickelodeon- Disney monopoly should not exist in other countries, It is not about they doing anything, it is about putting some restrictions on Disney and other western channels. The acquisition of UTV by Disney has made sure that there is no local national player in the Kid's Television market.

Pogo( Turner) has done it voluntarily with Chotha Bheem ( little bheem) but Disney seems like a stubborn beast and therefore will soon loose it's current standing it holds, which is solely due to a monopoly on kids channels rather than anything

[Bezkoshtovnya]

So what do you want them to do? Stop telling the stories which have made them so iconic? Abandon the storytelling traditions of their own culture?

They are free to do so in their own country, I firmly believe that this Turner-Nickelodeon- Disney monopoly should not exist in other countries, It is not about they doing anything, it is about putting some restrictions on Disney and other western channels. The acquisition of UTV by Disney has made sure that there is no local national player in the Kid's Television market.

Why not in others? Simply because it us western based and broadcasting in Asia does.not mean it is forcing an agenda as you claimed earlier. Are Ajia-do and Kodansha now trying to force an eastern agenda simply by marketing in the west?

[Immoren]

Ok let me put it this way to you Dread, Let us say that the United States lost the cold war and the most of the TV channels exist are soviet channels, One of them is Sovietney, and now let us assume that you have a child whose age can range from 4-12 and he continuously watches Sovietney channel, Would you like the indoctrination ? Do you think is it right for Disney/Sovietney to indoctrinate children with Western/Soviet impressions of the world at such a young and tender age ?


It is Disney and other Western media outlets that clearly have an agenda

Have you seen children's programmes east of the Iron Curtain?

[Naushantiya]

They are free to do so in their own country, I firmly believe that this Turner-Nickelodeon- Disney monopoly should not exist in other countries, It is not about they doing anything, it is about putting some restrictions on Disney and other western channels. The acquisition of UTV by Disney has made sure that there is no local national player in the Kid's Television market.

Why not in others? Simply because it us western based and broadcasting in Asia does.not mean it is forcing an agenda as you claimed earlier. Are Ajia-do and Kodansha now trying to force an eastern agenda simply by marketing in the west?

The fact remains is that due to Disney's and other Western corporations aggressive business strategies there are no local kids channels, There was one channel named animax(Sony) but it got delisted because of some carriage fee issues. The fact is that it is difficult for local animation companies to compete with them, not because Disney makes the best content in the world but because Disney has bigger financial power, and generally engages in very aggressive marketing. I think protecting our animation industry is more important and telling classics from our culture is more important. It is sad to see that little girls aspire to be Cinderella, Rapunzel, Snow white ( racist) but not the Queen of Jhansi or Sultan Razia. I think telling children their own history would boost their own confidence and telling the stories of strong women like these two I mentioned is the need of the hour, something Disney is perfectly incapable of doing, or would do so after westernizing it


Animax is Japanese

and the only Indian channel has been acquired by Disney

[The Mayonnaise Packet Smashing Union]

My friends and I continued to argue back and forth, which has lead me to here. For I must know, NS; do Disney movies empower young girls, as my friends suggest? Or are they simply sublte suggestions of supposed female inferiority?

I think it's neither. Disney is influential, if it was the alleged female inferiority, it would be pretty obvious. I don't think it's empowering young children & girls either, as stories have more than just what it looks to be.

[MERIZoC]

Disney movies empower me to go watch Miyazaki films. Seeing oneself on the television really is quite fun.

[Bezkoshtovnya]

Why not in others? Simply because it us western based and broadcasting in Asia does.not mean it is forcing an agenda as you claimed earlier. Are Ajia-do and Kodansha now trying to force an eastern agenda simply by marketing in the west?

The fact remains is that due to Disney's and other Western corporations aggressive business strategies there are no local kids channels, There was one channel named animax(Sony) but it got delisted because of some carriage fee issues. The fact is that it is difficult for local animation companies to compete with them, not because Disney makes the best content in the world but because Disney has bigger financial power, and generally engages in very aggressive marketing. I think protecting our animation industry is more important and telling classics from our culture is more important. It is sad to see that little girls aspire to be Cinderella, Rapunzel, Snow white ( racist) but not the Queen of Jhansi or Sultan Razia. I think telling children their own history would boost their own confidence and telling the stories of strong women like these two I mentioned is the need of the hour, something Disney is perfectly incapable of doing, or would do so after westernizing it


Animax is Japanese

and the only Indian channel has been acquired by Disney

Why is it all on the tele to present children with idols and cultural heroes and heroines? If you truly want to empower your child, do so yourself as a parent. Sure, it is unfortante how the corporate world works but I fail to see how it means the death of cultural stories and identity and it's replacement via westernized media. Also, when Disney acquires these channels, do they prohibit any and all native shows and programming and replace it all with the classic fairy tales?

[Naushantiya]

The fact remains is that due to Disney's and other Western corporations aggressive business strategies there are no local kids channels, There was one channel named animax(Sony) but it got delisted because of some carriage fee issues. The fact is that it is difficult for local animation companies to compete with them, not because Disney makes the best content in the world but because Disney has bigger financial power, and generally engages in very aggressive marketing. I think protecting our animation industry is more important and telling classics from our culture is more important. It is sad to see that little girls aspire to be Cinderella, Rapunzel, Snow white ( racist) but not the Queen of Jhansi or Sultan Razia. I think telling children their own history would boost their own confidence and telling the stories of strong women like these two I mentioned is the need of the hour, something Disney is perfectly incapable of doing, or would do so after westernizing it


Animax is Japanese

and the only Indian channel has been acquired by Disney

Why is it all on the tele to present children with idols and cultural heroes and heroines? If you truly want to empower your child, do so yourself as a parent. Sure, it is unfortante how the corporate world works but I fail to see how it means the death of cultural stories and identity and it's replacement via westernized media. Also, when Disney acquires these channels, do they prohibit any and all native shows and programming and replace it all with the classic fairy tales?

Hungama primarily shows Japanese shows bought by Disney but that being said they do make the shows westernized in their other channels . A child that sees folk stories, historical stories from his own country would actually develop the feelings of patriotism and duty at an early age. Girls need strong female characters and historical and relatively modern characters need to be shown. I don't think Disney is capable of that, I think we need to protect our children from this kind of influence, I am thinking about all children in the country.

I don't think Disney would ever make shows on Strong women like Queen Chenamma, Queen Velu nachiyar, the queen of Jhansi, Empreress Tara bai, Chand Bibi ,Queen of Holkar. I doubt Disney would ever show a little Indian girl needs to see, A strong India lady, the chances of them making an animation on the film lives of the bengal lancers is higher. I think Disney and other channels can be forced to make such shows by the Government or it can face a ban.


I think Television has a social responsibility, Companies like Disney cannot indulge in Shameless cultural dumping like this

[Charellia]

Why is it all on the tele to present children with idols and cultural heroes and heroines? If you truly want to empower your child, do so yourself as a parent. Sure, it is unfortante how the corporate world works but I fail to see how it means the death of cultural stories and identity and it's replacement via westernized media. Also, when Disney acquires these channels, do they prohibit any and all native shows and programming and replace it all with the classic fairy tales?

Hungama primarily shows Japanese shows bought by Disney but that being said they do make the shows westernized in their other channels . A child that sees folk stories, historical stories from his own country would actually develop the feelings of patriotism and duty at an early age. Girls need strong female characters and historical and relatively modern characters need to be shown. I don't think Disney is capable of that, I think we need to protect our children from this kind of influence, I am thinking about all children in the country.

I don't think Disney would ever make shows on Strong women like Queen Chenamma, Queen Velu nachiyar, the queen of Jhansi, Empreress Tara bai, Chand Bibi ,Queen of Holkar. I doubt Disney would ever show a little Indian girl needs to see, A strong India lady, the chances of them making an animation on the film lives of the bengal lancers is higher. I think Disney and other channels can be forced to make such shows by the Government or it can face a ban.


I think Television has a social responsibility, Companies like Disney cannot indulge in Shameless cultural dumping like this

I should point out that Disney's current stories don't inspire patriotism and duty in American children either. The movies are made for entertainment, not cultural education/indoctrination. People complain when stories are out of synch with evolving social values, Disney isn't actively trying to teach children anything, just to entertain them for a while.

[Naushantiya]

Hungama primarily shows Japanese shows bought by Disney but that being said they do make the shows westernized in their other channels . A child that sees folk stories, historical stories from his own country would actually develop the feelings of patriotism and duty at an early age. Girls need strong female characters and historical and relatively modern characters need to be shown. I don't think Disney is capable of that, I think we need to protect our children from this kind of influence, I am thinking about all children in the country.

I don't think Disney would ever make shows on Strong women like Queen Chenamma, Queen Velu nachiyar, the queen of Jhansi, Empreress Tara bai, Chand Bibi ,Queen of Holkar. I doubt Disney would ever show a little Indian girl needs to see, A strong India lady, the chances of them making an animation on the film lives of the bengal lancers is higher. I think Disney and other channels can be forced to make such shows by the Government or it can face a ban.


I think Television has a social responsibility, Companies like Disney cannot indulge in Shameless cultural dumping like this

I should point out that Disney's current stories don't inspire patriotism and duty in American children either. The movies are made for entertainment, not cultural education/indoctrination. People complain when stories are out of synch with evolving social values, Disney isn't actively trying to teach children anything, just to entertain them for a while.

Disney does teach them about their European heritage by making shows on folk tales such as Cinderella, Snow White and others, I have yet to see them make a cartoon on the Jataka, Mahabharata or Panchatantra.

[Bezkoshtovnya]

Why is it all on the tele to present children with idols and cultural heroes and heroines? If you truly want to empower your child, do so yourself as a parent. Sure, it is unfortante how the corporate world works but I fail to see how it means the death of cultural stories and identity and it's replacement via westernized media. Also, when Disney acquires these channels, do they prohibit any and all native shows and programming and replace it all with the classic fairy tales?

Hungama primarily shows Japanese shows bought by Disney but that being said they do make the shows westernized in their other channels . A child that sees folk stories, historical stories from his own country would actually develop the feelings of patriotism and duty at an early age. Girls need strong female characters and historical and relatively modern characters need to be shown. I don't think Disney is capable of that, I think we need to protect our children from this kind of influence, I am thinking about all children in the country.

I don't think Disney would ever make shows on Strong women like Queen Chenamma, Queen Velu nachiyar, the queen of Jhansi, Empreress Tara bai, Chand Bibi ,Queen of Holkar. I doubt Disney would ever show a little Indian girl needs to see, A strong India lady, the chances of them making an animation on the film lives of the bengal lancers is higher. I think Disney and other channels can be forced to make such shows by the Government or it can face a ban.


I think Television has a social responsibility, Companies like Disney cannot indulge in Shameless cultural dumping like this

Disney is not a propoganda device, it has no duty whatsoever to induce patriotism in every nation it has channels in. It certainly does not do that in the US and Europe, why now does it suddenly have a duty to do so in India or Japan? Maybe, and I emphasize Mayne, media should have some sort of social responsibility but you seem to think it needs to be the sole source of instilling confidence in girls by indoctrinating them with cultural and national patriotism.