NATION

PASSWORD

The Death of Liberal Christanity

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

What type of Liberal Christian, if any, are you?

Episcopal/Anglican
9
6%
Evangelical Lutheran Church of America
4
3%
United Church of Christ
2
1%
The Presbyterian Church U.S.A.
2
1%
None, but I prefer them over the other Christian denominations
31
20%
None, I am a Catholic/Orthodox/Baptist/Mormon/Other
64
41%
Other
22
14%
The Popular Front of Judea
24
15%
 
Total votes : 158

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Murkwood
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The Death of Liberal Christanity

Postby Murkwood » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:07 pm

As I was doing the rounds, I came across a fascinating article about the tremondous decline of Liberal Protestant denominations:

We’ve all heard the refrain that U.S. churches need liberalize their teachings on sexuality and homosexuality or rapidly decline. The logic behind the argument is simple: more and more Americans are embracing homosexuality and same-sex marriage, including growing numbers of religious Millennials. So long as churches remain the face of opposition to gay marriage, those churches will shrink into irrelevancy when gay marriage (inevitably, we are told) becomes a settled political issue.

These arguments often see church acceptance of homosexuality as a carrot as well as a stick. It isn’t so much that denouncing homosexuality will drive people away from church, but that embracing it will also lead people into church. LGBT individuals and their supporters, many of whom hold a dim view of religion after a decades-long culture war, will reconsider church if denominations remove their restrictions on gay marriage and ordination.


But a number of Christian denominations have already taken significant steps towards liberalizing their stances on homosexuality and marriage, and the evidence so far seems to indicate that affirming homosexuality is hardly a cure for membership woes. On the contrary, every major American church that has taken steps towards liberalization of sexual issues has seen a steep decline in membership.

The Episcopal Church
In 2003, Gene Robinson became the first openly gay, noncelibate man to be consecrated as a bishop of the Episcopal Church. In the wake of his consecration, entire dioceses severed ties with the Episcopal Church, eventually creating the Anglican Church of North America (ACNA). But the Episcopal Church continued to liberalize its sexual teachings, lifting a moratorium on any more gay bishops in 2006 and creating a “blessing ceremony” for gay couples in 2009.

In 2002, the number of baptized U.S. members of the Episcopal Church stood at 2.32 million. By 2012, that number had fallen to 1.89 million, a decline of 18.4 percent. Meanwhile, attendance has fallen even more steeply. Average Sunday attendance in its U.S. churches was 846,000 in 2002, but had fallen 24.4 percent by 2012 to only 640,000. Other signs of congregational liveliness have fallen even further. Baptisms have fallen by 39.6 percent, and marriages have fallen by 44.9 percent.

As for the ACNA? It’s seen its membership rise by 13 percent and its Sunday attendance rise by 16 percent in the past five years. Since 2009, the ACNA has planted 488 new congregations. In 2012, the entire Episcopal Church managed to plant four new churches.

The Evangelical Lutheran Church of America
The Evangelical Lutheran Church of America (ELCA) was formed in 1987, when three Lutheran denominations merged to create the largest Lutheran church in America. For most of its history, gay men and women were permitted to be pastors, so long as they remained celibate. But in a narrow vote at its 2009 Churchwide Assembly, ordination was extended to gay men and women in “committed monogamous relationships.” In addition, the Assembly passed an amendment allowing churches “to recognize, support and hold publicly accountable life-long, monogamous, same-gender relationships.”

From ELCA’s formation in 1987 to 2009, the average decrease in membership each year was only 0.62 percent. But after the liberalization of the ELCA’s stance on sexuality, membership declined a whopping 5.95 percent in 2010 and 4.98 percent in 2011. Since 2009, more than 600 congregations abandoned the denomination, with almost two-thirds joining conservative Lutheran denominations like the North American Lutheran Church and Lutheran Churches in Ministry for Christ.

By the end of 2012, ELCA had lost 12.3 percent of its members in three years—nearly 600,000 people. If the present rate of defections holds steady, ELCA will cease to exist in less than two decades.

The United Church of Christ
The United Church of Christ (UCC) has long had a reputation for unfettered liberalism, sometimes bordering on the radical. In 2008, for example, the pastor of the largest UCC congregations in the country was one Rev. Jeremiah Wright. The UCC’s tendency for pushing traditional boundaries has led to unquestionably positive developments (such as the first African-American pastor as early as 1785) and the unquestionably silly (such as the first hymnal that refuses to call Jesus male). Needless to say, in 2005 UCC became the first U.S. mainline Protestant denomination to support same-sex marriage, and has been an outspoken voice in the gay marriage debate ever since.

While UCC has been bleeding members for decades, its decline rapidly accelerated after the gay marriage vote. Since 2005, UCC has lost 250,000 members, a decline of 20.4 percent over seven years. While an average of 39 congregations left UCC annually from 1990 to 2004, more than 350 congregations departed in the following three years. The UCC’s own pension board called the 2000’s decline “the worst decade among 25 reporting Protestant denominations,” and admitted that “…the rate of decline is accelerating.”

2013 marked a particularly grim milestone for the denomination, as membership finally fell below one million. If the post-2005 rate in membership losses doesn’t taper out, the denomination will cease to exist in 30 years.

The Presbyterian Church U.S.A.
The Presbyterian Church U.S.A. (PCUSA) was flirting with loosening its sexual standards as early as its 2006 General Assembly, when it voted to allow ordination boards to essentially overlook clergy marriage standards if a candidate “adhere[s] to the essentials of the Reformed faith.” By 2010, the General Assembly had passed an amendment to remove all clerical standards of sexual behavior entirely. This year’s General Assembly voted overwhelmingly to change their Book of Order to redefine marriage as a civil contract between “two people” and to allow ministers to perform same-sex marriages where legal.

Hopefully by now, you can see where this is all headed. In 2006, 2.2 million people were members of PCUSA, a number that dropped 22.4 percent to 1.85 million by 2013. PCUSA’s decline accelerated significantly after approving the ordination of non-celibate gay and lesbian clergy in mid-2011, which led to the creation of an alternative denomination in 2012 called ECO: A Covenant Order of Evangelical Presbyterians. Over 100,000 members left the PCUSA in 2012 alone.

Once again, if post-2006 trends continue, the denomination will cease to exist by 2037.

Meanwhile, in Orthodox Churches…
The familiar answer from liberal mainline Christians is to protest that church attendance and religiosity is on the decline across-the-board, not just in denominations that embrace homosexuality. But this excuse fails to account for conservative denominations like the Assemblies of God, which has been consistently and rapidly growing for more than 40 years. Despite much of the hand-wringing over the Catholic Church’s highly visible public advocacy against gay marriage, it has been consistently growing in the United States. Lord knows the Mormons haven’t had any trouble growing. Even theologically conservative denominations that are declining, such as the Southern Baptist Convention, began declining much later and much less drastically than other denominations. The Southern Baptist Convention has only declined by 3 percent since its peak in 2007—an average of less than 1 percent annually—and has actually been adding congregations.

In the end, Christian supporters of gay marriage will likely view its effects on church membership as a side issue. Christians have a responsibility to grow their churches, but also a responsibility to promote what they believe is just in God’s eyes. But for some strange reason, it seems like conservative Christians never have to sacrifice one responsibility to fulfill the other.


Other Sources:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/opini ... .html?_r=0
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/07 ... th-warrant
http://juicyecumenism.com/2014/10/14/ep ... g-members/
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/ ... been-born/
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/anxiousben ... part-deux/

Denizens of NSG, what do you think about the fate of Liberal Christianity? Obviously, there is a decline. Is this good? Bad? Are you a member of any of these denominations? Why, do you think, is this?

As NSG's self-proclaimed most Catholic user, this makes me say "I told you so". Churches need to hold fast on their social teachings and not blow with wind. Catholics, Orthodox, shudders Baptists and more shudders Mormons have all realized this. Churches should stop trying to appeal to youth, women, gays, whatever. That doesn't work. Only following the guidelines set by Christ will work in filling souls and pews.

I leave you with a quote from 2 Timothy 4:3:

For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Murkwood, I'm surprised you're not an anti-Semite and don't mind most LGBT rights because boy, aren't you a constellation of the worst opinions to have about everything? o_o

Benuty wrote:I suppose Ken Ham, and the league of Republican-Neocolonialist-Zionist Catholics will not be pleased.

Soldati senza confini wrote:Did I just try to rationalize Murkwood's logic? Please shoot me.

Catholicism has the fullness of the splendor of truth: The Bible and the Church Fathers agree!

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Murkwood
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Founded: Apr 05, 2014
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Postby Murkwood » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:13 pm

Case in point: This is just silly.
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Murkwood, I'm surprised you're not an anti-Semite and don't mind most LGBT rights because boy, aren't you a constellation of the worst opinions to have about everything? o_o

Benuty wrote:I suppose Ken Ham, and the league of Republican-Neocolonialist-Zionist Catholics will not be pleased.

Soldati senza confini wrote:Did I just try to rationalize Murkwood's logic? Please shoot me.

Catholicism has the fullness of the splendor of truth: The Bible and the Church Fathers agree!

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Genivaria
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Founded: Mar 29, 2011
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Postby Genivaria » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:18 pm

As progress marches on the more reactionary extremists start to show their faces in response.
Tis the cycle of history.

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Murkwood
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Postby Murkwood » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:19 pm

Genivaria wrote:As progress marches on the more reactionary extremists start to show their faces in response.
Tis the cycle of history.

That doesn't really answer anything, but okay.
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Murkwood, I'm surprised you're not an anti-Semite and don't mind most LGBT rights because boy, aren't you a constellation of the worst opinions to have about everything? o_o

Benuty wrote:I suppose Ken Ham, and the league of Republican-Neocolonialist-Zionist Catholics will not be pleased.

Soldati senza confini wrote:Did I just try to rationalize Murkwood's logic? Please shoot me.

Catholicism has the fullness of the splendor of truth: The Bible and the Church Fathers agree!

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Genivaria
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Founded: Mar 29, 2011
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Postby Genivaria » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:23 pm

Murkwood wrote:
Genivaria wrote:As progress marches on the more reactionary extremists start to show their faces in response.
Tis the cycle of history.

That doesn't really answer anything, but okay.

Well it might not be what you want to hear I'm sure.
But it's highly relevant.


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Edgy Opinions
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Postby Edgy Opinions » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:23 pm

You can say that now, but what will happen to these Churches when we Millennials are in the same point of the Xers, and the Zs in the same point of us Millennials?

This decline has to do with the secularization of the Western world, something that is happening from northern Europe to the southern Cone, and from Southern Europe to Hawaii and New Zealand. People who aren't afraid of judgment over their lack of respect for traditional values don't see the need of making a deity confirm that they're worry about how much they're watched.

When all these people who supported these values are old or dead, you'll see a decline, too. This has already happened in France and the Czech Republic. Here's to hope we Spanish and Portuguese speakers secularize as strongly as well - we have as much historical reason. The more I ridicule people who think and say Brazil is threatened by the atheist communist threat erasing our basic civilizational values, the more people realize this camp is for the nutty pious and the repressed.
Kotturheim's contagious despair.
100% self-impressed 20-year-old cadoneutrois-pangender imprigender genderblur fluidflux bi-pan/gray-ace/gray-aro Brazilian.
Into: your gender, anarchism/communism, obliteration of kyriarchy, environment, other obvious '-10.00, -9.13 in political compass' stuff
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A Million Voices
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Postby A Million Voices » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:24 pm

Doctrine really does matter, it seems
Silencing an opponent is not the same as converting him.

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Kelinfort
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Postby Kelinfort » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:24 pm

Looks like people are getting less religious and the fundamentalists are getting nuttier.

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Murkwood
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Postby Murkwood » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:25 pm

Heraklea- wrote:Christ says love others.

You hate gay people.

Great work following the guidelines of Christ.

Hatred is wrong, and we should love our gay neighbors. Still, however, the New Testament is very clear.

1st Corinthians 6:9-11: Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Romans 1:25-27: They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-- who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Murkwood, I'm surprised you're not an anti-Semite and don't mind most LGBT rights because boy, aren't you a constellation of the worst opinions to have about everything? o_o

Benuty wrote:I suppose Ken Ham, and the league of Republican-Neocolonialist-Zionist Catholics will not be pleased.

Soldati senza confini wrote:Did I just try to rationalize Murkwood's logic? Please shoot me.

Catholicism has the fullness of the splendor of truth: The Bible and the Church Fathers agree!

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Murkwood
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Founded: Apr 05, 2014
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Postby Murkwood » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:26 pm

Edgy Opinions wrote:You can say that now, but what will happen to these Churches when we Millennials are in the same point of the Xers, and the Zs in the same point of us Millennials?

This decline has to do with the secularization of the Western world,

Then why are other Churches increasing their membership?
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Murkwood, I'm surprised you're not an anti-Semite and don't mind most LGBT rights because boy, aren't you a constellation of the worst opinions to have about everything? o_o

Benuty wrote:I suppose Ken Ham, and the league of Republican-Neocolonialist-Zionist Catholics will not be pleased.

Soldati senza confini wrote:Did I just try to rationalize Murkwood's logic? Please shoot me.

Catholicism has the fullness of the splendor of truth: The Bible and the Church Fathers agree!

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The Soviet League
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Postby The Soviet League » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:27 pm

Heraklea- wrote:Christ says love others.

You hate gay people.

Great work following the guidelines of Christ.


Dislike the homosexuality, not the person.

At least, that is what is supposed to be considered.
Workers of the world, unite! - The Union of Socialist Soviet Republics - Пролетарии всех стран, соединяйтесь!
Full Name: The Union of Socialist Soviet Republics (USSR)
Population: ~310 million
Current Canonical Date: 2020 A.D
State Religion: None/Secularism
Military Population (Active): 5 million
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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:29 pm

Murkwood wrote:
Edgy Opinions wrote:You can say that now, but what will happen to these Churches when we Millennials are in the same point of the Xers, and the Zs in the same point of us Millennials?

This decline has to do with the secularization of the Western world,

Then why are other Churches increasing their membership?

The more reactionary churches perhaps.
And because that's what happens in times of social change.
Most of the time everyone is a 'conservative' on some issues in the sense that they support the status quo on certain issues.
But the more an issue is pressed the more people will be pressed to choose a side, radical or reactionary.

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Murkwood
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Postby Murkwood » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:30 pm

Genivaria wrote:
Murkwood wrote:Then why are other Churches increasing their membership?

The more reactionary churches perhaps.
And because that's what happens in times of social change.
Most of the time everyone is a 'conservative' on some issues in the sense that they support the status quo on certain issues.
But the more an issue is pressed the more people will be pressed to choose a side, radical or reactionary.

So suddenly hundreds of thousands of Episcopalians and Lutherans just suddenly became reactionaries? Really?
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Murkwood, I'm surprised you're not an anti-Semite and don't mind most LGBT rights because boy, aren't you a constellation of the worst opinions to have about everything? o_o

Benuty wrote:I suppose Ken Ham, and the league of Republican-Neocolonialist-Zionist Catholics will not be pleased.

Soldati senza confini wrote:Did I just try to rationalize Murkwood's logic? Please shoot me.

Catholicism has the fullness of the splendor of truth: The Bible and the Church Fathers agree!

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Genivaria
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Founded: Mar 29, 2011
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Postby Genivaria » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:30 pm

The Soviet League wrote:
Heraklea- wrote:Christ says love others.

You hate gay people.

Great work following the guidelines of Christ.


Dislike the homosexuality, not the person.

At least, that is what is supposed to be considered.

" I dislike your blackness but I like you as a person."

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The Soviet League
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Postby The Soviet League » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:31 pm

Genivaria wrote:
The Soviet League wrote:
Dislike the homosexuality, not the person.

At least, that is what is supposed to be considered.

" I dislike your blackness but I like you as a person."


Melanin is a physical trait. Not homosexuality.

Try again.
Workers of the world, unite! - The Union of Socialist Soviet Republics - Пролетарии всех стран, соединяйтесь!
Full Name: The Union of Socialist Soviet Republics (USSR)
Population: ~310 million
Current Canonical Date: 2020 A.D
State Religion: None/Secularism
Military Population (Active): 5 million
Military Population (Reserves): 10 million
Total Military Strength: 15 million strong
Not counting non-activated reserves and dependent militaries of individual SFSRs

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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:32 pm

Murkwood wrote:
Genivaria wrote:The more reactionary churches perhaps.
And because that's what happens in times of social change.
Most of the time everyone is a 'conservative' on some issues in the sense that they support the status quo on certain issues.
But the more an issue is pressed the more people will be pressed to choose a side, radical or reactionary.

So suddenly hundreds of thousands of Episcopalians and Lutherans just suddenly became reactionaries? Really?

You're not really getting this I see.

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Edgy Opinions
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Postby Edgy Opinions » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:32 pm

Murkwood wrote:
Edgy Opinions wrote:You can say that now, but what will happen to these Churches when we Millennials are in the same point of the Xers, and the Zs in the same point of us Millennials?

This decline has to do with the secularization of the Western world,

Then why are other Churches increasing their membership?

Baby Boomers didn't die yet, they're still highly respected by the media and political establishment and still establish their values as the actual old times national values that is the basis for the people and yadda yadda

People still see themselves in a structure set up in the last Millennium.

None of it will make sense anymore when, say, you have 15% of atheists and over half of people who aren't religious in any relevant manner. There will be no pressure, it won't be a part of the common culture. The United States will look like a giant Uruguay.
Kotturheim's contagious despair.
100% self-impressed 20-year-old cadoneutrois-pangender imprigender genderblur fluidflux bi-pan/gray-ace/gray-aro Brazilian.
Into: your gender, anarchism/communism, obliteration of kyriarchy, environment, other obvious '-10.00, -9.13 in political compass' stuff
Anti: your gender (undo it interacting with me), Born This Way (also medicalism/pathologization/eugenics), outer space, abuse/predation, owners, power, hierarchy, internalization/privilege goggles (essential to the continuity of identity with power/hierarchy systems), essentialism/determinism, nihilism/defeatism

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The Orson Empire
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Postby The Orson Empire » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:33 pm

The Soviet League wrote:
Genivaria wrote:" I dislike your blackness but I like you as a person."


Melanin is a physical trait. Not homosexuality.

Try again.

Do you have a source to back up that claim?

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Heraklea-
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Postby Heraklea- » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:33 pm

Murkwood wrote:
Heraklea- wrote:Christ says love others.

You hate gay people.

Great work following the guidelines of Christ.

Hatred is wrong, and we should love our gay neighbors. Still, however, the New Testament is very clear.

1st Corinthians 6:9-11: Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Romans 1:25-27: They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-- who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

1st Corinthians, written not by others claiming to quote the Christ character but in fact later on by political influences in the early formation of your heretical faith. So, in other words, not the "guidelines of Christ".

Romans, again written not by others claiming to quote the Christ character but in fact later on by political influences in the early formation of your heretical faith. So, in other words, not the "guidelines of Christ".

Wouldn't it be great if you actually knew who supposedly said what in your bible?

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Murkwood
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Postby Murkwood » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:33 pm

Edgy Opinions wrote:
Murkwood wrote:Then why are other Churches increasing their membership?

The United States will look like a giant Uruguay.

Don't even joke about that! :p
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Murkwood, I'm surprised you're not an anti-Semite and don't mind most LGBT rights because boy, aren't you a constellation of the worst opinions to have about everything? o_o

Benuty wrote:I suppose Ken Ham, and the league of Republican-Neocolonialist-Zionist Catholics will not be pleased.

Soldati senza confini wrote:Did I just try to rationalize Murkwood's logic? Please shoot me.

Catholicism has the fullness of the splendor of truth: The Bible and the Church Fathers agree!

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Edgy Opinions
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Founded: Dec 31, 2014
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Postby Edgy Opinions » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:34 pm

The Soviet League wrote:Dislike the homosexuality, not the person.

At least, that is what is supposed to be considered.

And we don't care. You're still pretentious cishets trying to supervise butts.
Kotturheim's contagious despair.
100% self-impressed 20-year-old cadoneutrois-pangender imprigender genderblur fluidflux bi-pan/gray-ace/gray-aro Brazilian.
Into: your gender, anarchism/communism, obliteration of kyriarchy, environment, other obvious '-10.00, -9.13 in political compass' stuff
Anti: your gender (undo it interacting with me), Born This Way (also medicalism/pathologization/eugenics), outer space, abuse/predation, owners, power, hierarchy, internalization/privilege goggles (essential to the continuity of identity with power/hierarchy systems), essentialism/determinism, nihilism/defeatism

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The Orson Empire
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Postby The Orson Empire » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:34 pm

Kelinfort wrote:Looks like people are getting less religious and the fundamentalists are getting nuttier.

Fundamentalists make us reasonable religious people look bad. It's really infuriating.

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Murkwood
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Postby Murkwood » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:34 pm

Heraklea- wrote:
Murkwood wrote:Hatred is wrong, and we should love our gay neighbors. Still, however, the New Testament is very clear.

1st Corinthians 6:9-11: Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Romans 1:25-27: They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-- who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

1st Corinthians, written not by others claiming to quote the Christ character but in fact later on by political influences in the early formation of your heretical faith. So, in other words, not the "guidelines of Christ".

Romans, again written not by others claiming to quote the Christ character but in fact later on by political influences in the early formation of your heretical faith. So, in other words, not the "guidelines of Christ".

Wouldn't it be great if you actually knew who supposedly said what in your bible?

Obviously, you don't understand how the Bible works. Jesus is the supreme authority, yes, but the Apostles's teachings were based on Jesus's teachings.
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Murkwood, I'm surprised you're not an anti-Semite and don't mind most LGBT rights because boy, aren't you a constellation of the worst opinions to have about everything? o_o

Benuty wrote:I suppose Ken Ham, and the league of Republican-Neocolonialist-Zionist Catholics will not be pleased.

Soldati senza confini wrote:Did I just try to rationalize Murkwood's logic? Please shoot me.

Catholicism has the fullness of the splendor of truth: The Bible and the Church Fathers agree!

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Githoniel
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Founded: Feb 10, 2015
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Postby Githoniel » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:35 pm

I think this is the only time you'll see Catholics lumped in with Baptists and Mormons. I was not expecting that. Oh well, at least we have alcohol, unlike the Baptists; and the Trinity, unlike the Mormons. 8)

But in all seriousness, I think this is an interesting trend to watch. I suppose liberal memberships are declining because of the lack of... distinction? At a certain point, when the entire message of a denomination becomes "love and tolerance" then it's no different from a feel-good secularism. Therefore, why bother going to church when you can get the same message on Oprah? I could post that verse about Christ coming to bring a sword and divide families, but I feel like that'd be in poor taste. :? Orthodoxy (in general, not just the Orthodox Church, although they're certainly included) offers something different, something apart, something more.
A Elbereth Githoniel, silivren penna míriel o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-díriel o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon nef aear, sí nef aearon!


Administrative Delegate for Magnalucia


I am a female, married Roman Catholic. I vacillate between minarchism and monarchism. My nation tries to be a reflection of my beliefs, but only sort of succeeds.
Pro: JRR Tolkien, Catholicism, homeschooling, video games, coffee, tea, Latin, GK Chesterton.
Con: abortion, homosexuality, feminism, atheism, Nietzsche, the Protestant heresy, communism.

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