God and the World, what do you think? [Does God Exist II]

[The Alma Mater]

Well, the video didn't prove that He derives pleasure from people suffering. Nor that he has no compassion, since, according to Christianity, he sent a Messiah to die for them. And being without remorse in this case wouldn't be negative, since God supposedly does MOST things correctly. ( He definitely regretted making humans that descended into corruption before the Great Flood.)

If he isn't the Christian God, there would still no proof that he derives pleasure from people suffering. But since there is nothing to show of him showing an act of compassion, one can say that God has no compassion.

I still don't see how vicarious redemption through the murder (or death sentence) of another person is supposed to show compassion.

This.
Now, if one claims that Jesus *is* God; or say "an avatar" of God, or "God becoming Human" then yes, I see the compassion.
But letting someone else being tortured to death ? Not so much.

[The Third Nova Terra of Scrin]

I still don't see how vicarious redemption through the murder (or death sentence) of another person is supposed to show compassion.

This.
Now, if one claims that Jesus *is* God; or say "an avatar" of God, or "God becoming Human" then yes, I see the compassion.
But letting someone else being tortured to death ? Not so much.

Because you don't realize that Jesus and God are the same God. It is God Himself who died and sacrificed for humankind, because Jesus Christ is God Himself. Holy Trinity - One God in Three Persons.

[Sun Wukong]

This.
Now, if one claims that Jesus *is* God; or say "an avatar" of God, or "God becoming Human" then yes, I see the compassion.
But letting someone else being tortured to death ? Not so much.

Because you don't realize that Jesus and God are the same God. It is God Himself who died and sacrificed for humankind, because Jesus Christ is God Himself. Holy Trinity - One God in Three Persons.

So he was just talking to himself then all those times?

"Myself, myself, why have I forsaken me?"

[The Alma Mater]

This.
Now, if one claims that Jesus *is* God; or say "an avatar" of God, or "God becoming Human" then yes, I see the compassion.
But letting someone else being tortured to death ? Not so much.

Because you don't realize that Jesus and God are the same God. It is God Himself who died and sacrificed for humankind, because Jesus Christ is God Himself. Holy Trinity - One God in Three Persons.

Oh, I do realise that SOME denominations of christianity hold that view. But it is not a universally held belief- and when someone says "He sacrificed His son for us" I have to assume he sees God and Jesus as two distinct persons.

[Cannabis Islands]

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This.
Now, if one claims that Jesus *is* God; or say "an avatar" of God, or "God becoming Human" then yes, I see the compassion.
But letting someone else being tortured to death ? Not so much.

Because you don't realize that Jesus and God are the same God. It is God Himself who died and sacrificed for humankind, because Jesus Christ is God Himself. Holy Trinity - One God in Three Persons.

Well I do believe there is a creator of the cosmos, if you want refer to it as God, okay, but I don't see no evidence of this guy named Jesus was God or was his son. No proof of his crucifixion either.

[POTP]

I hope this isn't considered spamming, cause I'm sharing something that means something to me.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S_OTz-lpDjw
This is all I have to contribute to this thread: just gotta have faith people, just gotta have faith.

[Cannabis Islands]

I hope this isn't considered spamming, cause I'm sharing something that means something to me.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S_OTz-lpDjw
This is all I have to contribute to this thread: just gotta have faith people, just gotta have faith.

So I don't understand that the proof of the existence of God equals proof that some guy named Jesus is God.

[The Third Nova Terra of Scrin]

Because you don't realize that Jesus and God are the same God. It is God Himself who died and sacrificed for humankind, because Jesus Christ is God Himself. Holy Trinity - One God in Three Persons.

So he was just talking to himself then all those times?

"Myself, myself, why have I forsaken me?"

No, He is talking to God the Father. Yes, there are three distinct persons in the Holy Trinity, but God's sacrifice of His Son is a compassionate and loving action on His part, not that He gave up His Son to torture and death, but that it was He Himself who made the sacrifice and reparation on Humanity by giving up His Son, because of His love for Humankind.

Another is that God the Father did not coerced Jesus to die, but that Jesus Himself freely chose to die for us. Saying that the sacrifice of Christ on the cross is merely a case of torture also ignores a lot of Christian theology.

Besides, it's ironic and hilarious that atheists (assuming the people I'm talking with are indeed one), can say a thing is compassionate or not. Define "compassion" first, and outline the criteria for a thing to be compassionate before you declare Christ's torture isn't.

[The Third Nova Terra of Scrin]

Because you don't realize that Jesus and God are the same God. It is God Himself who died and sacrificed for humankind, because Jesus Christ is God Himself. Holy Trinity - One God in Three Persons.

Oh, I do realise that SOME denominations of christianity hold that view. But it is not a universally held belief- and when someone says "He sacrificed His son for us" I have to assume he sees God and Jesus as two distinct persons.

It indeed is, the Holy Trinity is a well-established belief in most (if not several) Protestant churches, Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy. It is almost a universally-held belief in Christianity, those who do not hold to it are the fringe ones.

[POTP]

I hope this isn't considered spamming, cause I'm sharing something that means something to me.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S_OTz-lpDjw
This is all I have to contribute to this thread: just gotta have faith people, just gotta have faith.

So I don't understand that the proof of the existence of God equals proof that some guy named Jesus is God.

Christ was God on earth. "The Word made flesh"

[The Third Nova Terra of Scrin]

Well I do believe there is a creator of the cosmos, if you want refer to it as God, okay, but I don't see no evidence of this guy named Jesus was God or was his son. No proof of his crucifixion either.

Jesus Christ's historicity is well-established.

[Cannabis Islands]

Well I do believe there is a creator of the cosmos, if you want refer to it as God, okay, but I don't see no evidence of this guy named Jesus was God or was his son. No proof of his crucifixion either.

Jesus Christ's historicity is well-established.

Do you have any proof that he was "God"? Or is that based on faith?

[POTP]

Jesus Christ's historicity is well-established.

Do you have any proof that he was "God"? Or is that based on faith?

He was resurrected. There were hundreds of witnesses. He ascended into heaven. Very well documented.

[Aelex]

Oh, I do realise that SOME denominations of christianity hold that view. But it is not a universally held belief- and when someone says "He sacrificed His son for us" I have to assume he sees God and Jesus as two distinct persons.

Yeah, that was called Arianism and that dissapeared around the 5th century.

[Cannabis Islands]

Do you have any proof that he was "God"? Or is that based on faith?

He was resurrected. There were hundreds of witnesses. He ascended into heaven. Very well documented.

Any evidence and no not the Bible and yes I read the Bible, many versions. Just read the NIV the other day, for the 2nd time and Jesus supernatural claims seem even more B.S than before.

[The Third Nova Terra of Scrin]

He was resurrected. There were hundreds of witnesses. He ascended into heaven. Very well documented.

Any evidence and no not the Bible and yes I read the Bible many versions.

Why should the Bible be not accepted as documentary evidence?

[Cannabis Islands]

Any evidence and no not the Bible and yes I read the Bible many versions.

Why should the Bible be not accepted as documentary evidence?

Why not the Koran? The bible is based on hearsay. Matthew Mark Luke and John did not really write the Gospels. There were many gospels that were left out of the Bible, what about them? The Catholic bible has more books than the Protestant one.

[The Third Nova Terra of Scrin]

Why should the Bible be not accepted as documentary evidence?

Why not the Koran? The bible is based on hearsay. Matthew Mark Luke and John did not really write the Gospels. There were many gospels that were left out of the Bible, what about them? The Catholic bible has more books than the Protestant one.

The Bible is not based on hearsay, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John indeed really write the Gospels. The Gospels that were left out of the Bible A.K.A Apocrypha or the Deuterocanonicals, or some other "lost book" you did not hear about does not belong because they were written at a later date than most of the Gospels and the Bible's books. Further analysis on the "lost books" casts more doubt on their authenticity.

Why not the Koran? It's muddled with inaccuracy and error, along with Mohammed's dubious behavior.

[The Alma Mater]

So he was just talking to himself then all those times?

"Myself, myself, why have I forsaken me?"

No, He is talking to God the Father. Yes, there are three distinct persons in the Holy Trinity, but God's sacrifice of His Son is a compassionate and loving action on His part, not that He gave up His Son to torture and death, but that it was He Himself who made the sacrifice and reparation on Humanity by giving up His Son, because of His love for Humankind.

I always expect Christians to burst out laughing after they say that and say "just kidding". It is simply not possible for me to see this form of reasoning as anything but silly (and slightly evil) drivel. Sorry...

Another is that God the Father did not coerced Jesus to die, but that Jesus Himself freely chose to die for us. Saying that the sacrifice of Christ on the cross is merely a case of torture also ignores a lot of Christian theology.

A fair point. If we see Jesus as a seperate person, he was given a sweet deal by God - a deal just about anyone on the planet would consider I imagine. I know I would. And I know of plenty of people who accepted a far worse deal than he got.

However, I admit I do not know if I would have been so steadfast during the actual torture. He was, and deserves some respect for that.

Besides, it's ironic and hilarious that atheists (assuming the people I'm talking with are indeed one), can say a thing is compassionate or not. Define "compassion" first, and outline the criteria for a thing to be compassionate before you declare Christ's torture isn't.

Ohno, I believe a or more gods exist. I do just not believe that they are good or noble.

[The Alma Mater]

Why not the Koran? The bible is based on hearsay. Matthew Mark Luke and John did not really write the Gospels. There were many gospels that were left out of the Bible, what about them? The Catholic bible has more books than the Protestant one.

The Bible is not based on hearsay, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John indeed really write the Gospels.

No they did not. The Bible itself even states so, as do practically all denominations.

[Cannabis Islands]

Why not the Koran? The bible is based on hearsay. Matthew Mark Luke and John did not really write the Gospels. There were many gospels that were left out of the Bible, what about them? The Catholic bible has more books than the Protestant one.

The Bible is not based on hearsay, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John indeed really write the Gospels. The Gospels that were left out of the Bible A.K.A Apocrypha or the Deuterocanonicals, or some other "lost book" you did not hear about does not belong because they were written at a later date than most of the Gospels and the Bible's books. Further analysis on the "lost books" casts more doubt on their authenticity.

Why not the Koran? It's muddled with inaccuracy and error, along with Mohammed's dubious behavior.

No, the bible was based on stories. Matthew Mark Luke and John did not write the Gospels. And what makes the Koran full of errors and what makes the Koran full of errors? Who made that decision?

[The Third Nova Terra of Scrin]

Ohno, I believe a or more gods exist. I do just not believe that they are good or noble.

I don't find anything in your response worthy of another response, but I admit my mistake is that I assume most people here I'm talking with in an anti-Christian topic are atheists. (〃⌒∇⌒)

[The Third Nova Terra of Scrin]

No, the bible was based on stories. Matthew Mark Luke and John did not write the Gospels. And what makes the Koran full of errors and what makes the Koran full of errors? Who made that decision?

Could you please back up your claims that the Bible is based on stories or the four cool dudes did not write them Gospels? We'll not get to anything if we'll just repeat what we said.

Common sense is the authority for deciding whether the Quran is full of errors or not. Surah 18:86 says the Sun sinks in a spring of murky water, make of that what you will.

[Cannabis Islands]

Ohno, I believe a or more gods exist. I do just not believe that they are good or noble.

I don't find anything in your response worthy of another response, but I admit my mistake is that I assume most people here I'm talking with in an anti-Christian topic are atheists. (〃⌒∇⌒)

I've stated numerous times that I'm a deist.

[Cannabis Islands]

No, the bible was based on stories. Matthew Mark Luke and John did not write the Gospels. And what makes the Koran full of errors and what makes the Koran full of errors? Who made that decision?

Could you please back up your claims that the Bible is based on stories or the four cool dudes did not write them Gospels? We'll not get to anything if we'll just repeat what we said.

Common sense is the authority for deciding whether the Quran is full of errors or not. Surah 18:86 says the Sun sinks in a spring of murky water, make of that what you will.

Wikipedia says that the gospel Matthew was written by an anonymous author. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Matthew