God and the World, what do you think? [Does God Exist II]

[Mavorpen]

And yet you did not cover one single point about an extra-dimensional being's mechanics or influences.

Nice dodging.

... What fucking mechanics and influences?

The ones that apologists had to pull out of their assholes once the God of the Gaps started shrinking faster than they could keep up?

The ones that conveniently can't be analyzed at all?

This is actually a fantastic way to observe the fundamental differentiation between these people and scientists. Scientists, despite proposing things that currently cannot be directly tested, STILL make an effort to also propose ways through which they can be INDIRECTLY tested and falsified.

Meanwhile people relying on the god of the gaps make it their primary goal to avoid testability and falsifiability in any manner.

[The Rich Port]

... What fucking mechanics and influences?

The ones that apologists had to pull out of their assholes once the God of the Gaps started shrinking faster than they could keep up?

The ones that conveniently can't be analyzed at all?

No, the mechanics and influences of higher dimensions upon the third dimensional plane.

And you say that people pull things out...

Unless you're going to absolutely, ridiculously claim you can see beyond this dimension, I have no idea what the fuck you're on about.

[Barraco Barner]

No, the mechanics and influences of higher dimensions upon the third dimensional plane.

And you say that people pull things out...

Unless you're going to absolutely, ridiculously claim you can see beyond this dimension, I have no idea what the fuck you're on about.

Jesus Christ, do you know the fourth dimension? And higher dimensions?

Google is your medical assistant.

[Barraco Barner]

Unless you're going to absolutely, ridiculously claim you can see beyond this dimension, I have no idea what the fuck you're on about.

Jesus Christ, do you know the fourth dimension? And higher dimensions?

Google is your medical assistant.

A guide.

[The Rich Port]

Jesus Christ, do you know the fourth dimension? And higher dimensions?

Google is your medical assistant.

A guide.

... What the fuck does this have to do with whether God exists.

[Shaggai]

Here. Let me show you a quote:

And? God IS impossible. I see no dissonance her.

If it is impossible for God to exist, then why do you care about evidence?

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

A guide.

(Image)

I'm getting tired of this.

We get the fucking concept of higher dimensions.

What we're saying is that just because higher dimensions can be theorized doesn't mean you can make specific assumptions about what might exist beyond our frame of reference.

You are the one saying that there's a god somewhere out there, hiding in the higher dimensions or whatever, it's on you that the burden of proof lies.

[Kaoiluja]

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... CQQMygHMAc

[Vilatania]

We can't test that. We just know that the God in the bible is impossible.

Any evidence to the contrary?

Your say that any God is impossible, we have no evidence either way. You can't make an assumption that no god exists anymore than a Christian can claim his god exists. Why? Because neither of you have evidence to facilitate the belief. That means you should simply not believe, but you can't dismiss the idea outright as impossible. The god in the bible? Yeah we've established many times in this thread that he is impossible.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Any evidence to the contrary?

Your say that any God is impossible, we have no evidence either way. You can't make an assumption that no god exists anymore than a Christian can claim his god exists. Why? Because neither of you have evidence to facilitate the belief. That means you should simply not believe, but you can't dismiss the idea outright as impossible. The god in the bible? Yeah we've established many times in this thread that he is impossible.

Positive claim: God is possible. Needs evidence.
Negative claim: God is not possible. Doesn't need evidence.

I can dismiss it as impossible. Which god it is is, is irrelevant.

And? God IS impossible. I see no dissonance her.

If it is impossible for God to exist, then why do you care about evidence?

Because evidence is necessary to support the positive claim. However, it's not so much me that should care as it should be the theists.

OK.

Claim: There is no god.
Basis: There is no evidence for the existence of a god.
Evidence: It is a claim in the negative, and so doesn't need evidence.
Conclusion: There is no god.

Shah mat, theists.

And yet you did not cover one single point about an extra-dimensional being's mechanics or influences.

Nice dodging.

What evidence is there that there is an extra-dimensional god?

Hint: zero.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

"X is not possible" is in fact a positive claim.

[Shaggai]

"X is not possible" is in fact a positive claim.

Yeah. "X is true" is a positive claim. "X may be true" is not.

[Sun Wukong]

"X is not possible" is in fact a positive claim.

Yeah. "X is true" is a positive claim. "X may be true" is not.

Actually, phrased like that, it still is. A positive claim is merely a claim which asserts something. In this case you are asserting that X has a non-zero probability.

Formal logic would then demand that you show your math.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

"X is not possible" is in fact a positive claim.

How?

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

"X is not possible" is in fact a positive claim.

How?

In the same way that "there are no black swans" would be a positive claim.

[Vilatania]

Err actually pretantia there is a pretty big difference between claiming that something doesnt' exist and claiming that something can't exist. Claiming that something can't exist assumes there is a logical reason as to why it cannot exist. The lack of evidence to support it's existence is insufficient to make a negative claim about the possibility of it's existence. Stated frankly, you cannot make this claim logically.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

How?

In the same way that "there are no black swans" would be a positive claim.

Isn't that a negative claim as well?

You're probably more knowledgeable on this than I am, so I'll try to avoid snark.

Err actually pretantia there is a pretty big difference between claiming that something doesnt' exist and claiming that something can't exist. Claiming that something can't exist assumes there is a logical reason as to why it cannot exist. The lack of evidence to support it's existence is insufficient to make a negative claim about the possibility of it's existence. Stated frankly, you cannot make this claim logically.

It's the opposite claim to,"X can exist." I still don't see how it's positive.

[Alpine Lands (Ancient)]

I think it's pretentious to claim to know about the existence, or lack thereof, of a deity. I'm in no way saying that faith or lack of faith is pretentious, just the zealots on both sides.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

I think it's pretentious to claim to know about the existence, or lack thereof, of a deity. I'm in no way saying that faith or lack of faith is pretentious, just the zealots on both sides.

Are you calling me pretantious?

[Vilatania]

In the same way that "there are no black swans" would be a positive claim.

Isn't that a negative claim as well?

You're probably more knowledgeable on this than I am, so I'll try to avoid snark.

Err actually pretantia there is a pretty big difference between claiming that something doesnt' exist and claiming that something can't exist. Claiming that something can't exist assumes there is a logical reason as to why it cannot exist. The lack of evidence to support it's existence is insufficient to make a negative claim about the possibility of it's existence. Stated frankly, you cannot make this claim logically.

It's the opposite claim to,"X can exist." I still don't see how it's positive.

It isn't positive your correct on that, however the negative claim is illogical because your attempting to say something cannot exist under any circumstances without any logical reason to make the claim in the first place.

[Alpine Lands (Ancient)]

I think it's pretentious to claim to know about the existence, or lack thereof, of a deity. I'm in no way saying that faith or lack of faith is pretentious, just the zealots on both sides.

Are you calling me pretantious?

It depends. Pretentious might be a strong word, and I may've misworded my post. I'm merely saying that zealotry and fundamentalism is idiotic and pretentious. When someone is smugly saying "I know for a fact that there is a god", then it's right to call them pretentious. If someone says "I have faith in a deity", then that's completely fine.

[Vilatania]

Are you calling me pretantious?

It depends. Pretentious might be a strong word, and I may've misworded my post. I'm merely saying that zealotry and fundamentalism is idiotic and pretentious. When someone is smugly saying "I know for a fact that there is a god", then it's right to call them pretentious. If someone says "I have faith in a deity", then that's completely fine.

Normally true, but since the person does not have any evidence to support their belief that the deity exists their belief is irrational. Being irrational is generally not ok.

[Sun Wukong]

I think it's pretentious to claim to know about the existence, or lack thereof, of a deity. I'm in no way saying that faith or lack of faith is pretentious, just the zealots on both sides.

Is it pretentious to claim to know about the existence, or lack thereof, of unicorns?

[Vilatania]

I think it's pretentious to claim to know about the existence, or lack thereof, of a deity. I'm in no way saying that faith or lack of faith is pretentious, just the zealots on both sides.

Is it pretentious to claim to know about the existence, or lack thereof, of unicorns?

Unicorns are real because my holy book of unicorns says so!

[Alpine Lands (Ancient)]

I think it's pretentious to claim to know about the existence, or lack thereof, of a deity. I'm in no way saying that faith or lack of faith is pretentious, just the zealots on both sides.

Is it pretentious to claim to know about the existence, or lack thereof, of unicorns?

Somehow, they're the exception.