Utah state legislators approve firing squads

[Camelza]

That's not irony.

The guy admits he's guilty, agrees that death is probably the best sentence, and AFTERWARDS .gov still spends FAR too much money on legal proceedings to get the execution approved.

Far easier to hand 'em a pistol and a bullet in an isolation cell. After they've been broken psychologically.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but that's not how civilised societies work.

[Valica]

The legal bits aren't execution.

I am referring to the actual act of execution, because the definition of execution is taking someone's life.
Being in court isn't part of execution.

From the time they sit in the chair to the time they are dragged out costs the state less money than feeding them for 20 years.

There's still massive amounts of money poured into the legal process to get permission for 10$ of bullets and 25$ of cleaning equipment to be used to deal with that guy over there that raped and killed five underage girls, has pleaded guilty as charged, and has requested, and been denied, several appeals. Such is the irony of America's legal system.

Then how can people against the death penalty say that it's expensive if it's the legal process that drives the cost up?
If more people were for the death penalty, we could streamline the process and drive the cost so low that prisons wouldn't be such a drain.
Then we could afford to ban corporate or for-profit prisons because who the fuck thought that was a good idea?

[Valica]

Ahh good old family values and religion. They have sooooo much morality.
2 guys marrying each other. Abhorrent! Shooting someone who has a bag over their head who's defenseless in a chair. Fun for the whole family!

Really? Why are you trying to fucking derail this into a religious/gay marriage discussion?
I'm agnostic and, in some cases, anti-theist and I support the death penalty with options.

I think prisoners should get to choose means of execution. Hanging, firing squad, laughing gas, or electrocution.
Injection is ineffective and expensive.

Quit being an edgy kid and understand that not every issue can be boiled down to your preconceived notion of religious people.

[Ifreann]

That's not irony.

The guy admits he's guilty, agrees that death is probably the best sentence, and AFTERWARDS .gov still spends FAR too much money on legal proceedings to get the execution approved.

Far easier to hand 'em a pistol and a bullet in an isolation cell. After they've been broken psychologically.

It would be easier still to simply not bother having trials. Or not to even seek to address crime at all. Imagine how much money ".gov" could save by firing all the police officers and judges and abandoning any notion of a legal system at all. Easier does not mean better. Cheaper does not mean better. And contrived situations in which money is spent when you think it ought not be spent is not irony.

[Fartsniffage]

There's still massive amounts of money poured into the legal process to get permission for 10$ of bullets and 25$ of cleaning equipment to be used to deal with that guy over there that raped and killed five underage girls, has pleaded guilty as charged, and has requested, and been denied, several appeals. Such is the irony of America's legal system.

Then how can people against the death penalty say that it's expensive if it's the legal process that drives the cost up?
If more people were for the death penalty, we could streamline the process and drive the cost so low that prisons wouldn't be such a drain.
Then we could afford to ban corporate or for-profit prisons because who the fuck thought that was a good idea?

I ask the same question that I did before. Which bits would you strip out?

[Galloism]

Then how can people against the death penalty say that it's expensive if it's the legal process that drives the cost up?
If more people were for the death penalty, we could streamline the process and drive the cost so low that prisons wouldn't be such a drain.
Then we could afford to ban corporate or for-profit prisons because who the fuck thought that was a good idea?

I ask the same question that I did before. Which bits would you strip out?

Probably appeals.

God will sort em out, you know.

[Valica]

I ask the same question that I did before. Which bits would you strip out?

I'm not a lawyer, it's not my place to suggest changes to intricate legal processes.
What I can suggest, however, is introducing a "right to death" that allows any American to choose when they want to die.
And if a prisoner doesn't want to serve their sentence, they can opt for immediate fast-lane execution by chosen means.

This law could also apply to hospital patients, elderly persons, etc. Everyone can choose to die by less brutal means than by their own hands.

[Imperializt Russia]

And yet it's true. The only way you could make it cheaper is to remove some of the legal protections afforded to those sentenced to death.

So which bits would you strip out?

The legal bits aren't execution.

I am referring to the actual act of execution, because the definition of execution is taking someone's life.
Being in court isn't part of execution.

From the time they sit in the chair to the time they are dragged out costs the state less money than feeding them for 20 years.

How disingenuously pointless a reasoning.

There's still massive amounts of money poured into the legal process to get permission for 10$ of bullets and 25$ of cleaning equipment to be used to deal with that guy over there that raped and killed five underage girls, has pleaded guilty as charged, and has requested, and been denied, several appeals. Such is the irony of America's legal system.

Then how can people against the death penalty say that it's expensive if it's the legal process that drives the cost up?
If more people were for the death penalty, we could streamline the process and drive the cost so low that prisons wouldn't be such a drain.
Then we could afford to ban corporate or for-profit prisons because who the fuck thought that was a good idea?

With current legal protections, death row still kills innocents.

What is the fucking point?

[Zakuvia]

Let's also not forget that the death penalty is not actually expensive. It's the appeals process/Hindenburg-level overinflated legal fees that are expensive. Also, don't forget that although lethal injection actually has a fail rate, albeit low, firing squad has never been ineffective in the history of its usage as a method of humane execution (and no, for you chuckle-hippies, that's not an oxymoron).

Let's put this into perspective as a matter of an individual execution is concerned.

4x National Guardsmen (Frankly, I wouldn't want somebody on a firing squad that didn't know how to use a weapon) - at one hour's pay each at a Corporal's salary, let's round that up to $50. Let's also assume they'll provide their own rifle.
4x 5.56 rounds - Supposing we're not MIC'ing this to the point of stupidity, that's $2.
1x Jumpsuit - Fair market price is $15, though the case could be made that it could be drastically reduced if we bought in bulk.
1x Bag - $1.50, if we use the government standard used coffee sack. Of course, this may be eliminated entirely if the condemned so chooses. But let's just say they're squeamish.

So, in total, the cost of actually executing said individual, not taking into account the costs of disposal and cleanup, comes to $68.50, with twenty-five percent of that just clothing the sod.
.02% the price of a standard execution via lethal injection.

[The Serbian Empire]

I am opposed to capital punishment, but if you're going to have it, I'd say that the advantages of lethal injection over firing squad are largely cosmetic, and ultimately more to help us feel better about executing people than to make the experience more humane for the condemned.

Indeed, lethal injection is little more than cosmetically better. I'd rather see the execution by guillotine myself if executions are to be continued.

[Imperializt Russia]

Let's also not forget that the death penalty is not actually expensive. It's the appeals process/Hindenburg-level overinflated legal fees that are expensive. Also, don't forget that although lethal injection actually has a fail rate, albeit low, firing squad has never been ineffective in the history of its usage as a method of humane execution (and no, for you chuckle-hippies, that's not an oxymoron).

Let's put this into perspective as a matter of an individual execution is concerned.

4x National Guardsmen (Frankly, I wouldn't want somebody on a firing squad that didn't know how to use a weapon) - at one hour's pay each at a Corporal's salary, let's round that up to $50. Let's also assume they'll provide their own rifle.
4x 5.56 rounds - Supposing we're not MIC'ing this to the point of stupidity, that's $2.
1x Jumpsuit - Fair market price is $15, though the case could be made that it could be drastically reduced if we bought in bulk.
1x Bag - $1.50, if we use the government standard used coffee sack. Of course, this may be eliminated entirely if the condemned so chooses. But let's just say they're squeamish.

So, in total, the cost of actually executing said individual, not taking into account the costs of disposal and cleanup, comes to $68.50, with twenty-five percent of that just clothing the sod.
.02% the price of a standard execution via lethal injection.

Fifty. Fucking. Bucks.

To shoot a prisoner in the chest.
Might want to reassess your going rate.

[The Nihilistic view]

Let's also not forget that the death penalty is not actually expensive. It's the appeals process/Hindenburg-level overinflated legal fees that are expensive. Also, don't forget that although lethal injection actually has a fail rate, albeit low, firing squad has never been ineffective in the history of its usage as a method of humane execution (and no, for you chuckle-hippies, that's not an oxymoron).

Let's put this into perspective as a matter of an individual execution is concerned.

4x National Guardsmen (Frankly, I wouldn't want somebody on a firing squad that didn't know how to use a weapon) - at one hour's pay each at a Corporal's salary, let's round that up to $50. Let's also assume they'll provide their own rifle.
4x 5.56 rounds - Supposing we're not MIC'ing this to the point of stupidity, that's $2.
1x Jumpsuit - Fair market price is $15, though the case could be made that it could be drastically reduced if we bought in bulk.
1x Bag - $1.50, if we use the government standard used coffee sack. Of course, this may be eliminated entirely if the condemned so chooses. But let's just say they're squeamish.

So, in total, the cost of actually executing said individual, not taking into account the costs of disposal and cleanup, comes to $68.50, with twenty-five percent of that just clothing the sod.
.02% the price of a standard execution via lethal injection.

Fifty. Fucking. Bucks.

To shoot a prisoner in the chest.
Might want to reassess your going rate.

This is America, you could get people to volunteer to do it.

[Galloism]

Fifty. Fucking. Bucks.

To shoot a prisoner in the chest.
Might want to reassess your going rate.

This is America, you could get people to volunteer to do it.

Sadly, this is probably true.

[Fartsniffage]

Let's also not forget that the death penalty is not actually expensive. It's the appeals process/Hindenburg-level overinflated legal fees that are expensive. Also, don't forget that although lethal injection actually has a fail rate, albeit low, firing squad has never been ineffective in the history of its usage as a method of humane execution (and no, for you chuckle-hippies, that's not an oxymoron).

Let's put this into perspective as a matter of an individual execution is concerned.

4x National Guardsmen (Frankly, I wouldn't want somebody on a firing squad that didn't know how to use a weapon) - at one hour's pay each at a Corporal's salary, let's round that up to $50. Let's also assume they'll provide their own rifle.
4x 5.56 rounds - Supposing we're not MIC'ing this to the point of stupidity, that's $2.
1x Jumpsuit - Fair market price is $15, though the case could be made that it could be drastically reduced if we bought in bulk.
1x Bag - $1.50, if we use the government standard used coffee sack. Of course, this may be eliminated entirely if the condemned so chooses. But let's just say they're squeamish.

So, in total, the cost of actually executing said individual, not taking into account the costs of disposal and cleanup, comes to $68.50, with twenty-five percent of that just clothing the sod.
.02% the price of a standard execution via lethal injection.

Fifty. Fucking. Bucks.

To shoot a prisoner in the chest.
Might want to reassess your going rate.

That's $50 spilt between 4.

Apparently Pierrepoint got the equivalent of £327 per execution.

[Zakuvia]

Fifty. Fucking. Bucks.

To shoot a prisoner in the chest.
Might want to reassess your going rate.

That's $50 spilt between 4.

Apparently Pierrepoint got the equivalent of £327 per execution.

Military members are salaried, not hourly, so I quasi-mathed the hourly wage of an E-4 to ~12.50, though anybody who's in the military (me) knows that this WILDLY varies from place to place and detail to detail. Plus, if you considered this hazardous duty? Oh forget it, we could nearly triple that.

[Imperializt Russia]

Wow, so generous.

[Arkiasis]

Ahh good old family values and religion. They have sooooo much morality.
2 guys marrying each other. Abhorrent! Shooting someone who has a bag over their head who's defenseless in a chair. Fun for the whole family!

Really? Why are you trying to fucking derail this into a religious/gay marriage discussion?
I'm agnostic and, in some cases, anti-theist and I support the death penalty with options.

I think prisoners should get to choose means of execution. Hanging, firing squad, laughing gas, or electrocution.
Injection is ineffective and expensive.

Quit being an edgy kid and understand that not every issue can be boiled down to your preconceived notion of religious people.

You know what Utah is? A hyper-religious state, yet they don't adhere to "Thou shall not kill". If you don't adhere to one of the most basic concepts of every damn religion, you're not a good religious person.

[Greater-London]

I oppose capital punishment but IF your going to have it then so long as its not cruel, painful or long it doesn't matter how you do it. Incidentally I find lethal injections more sinister than a firing squad because its so clinical and I assume its done by a medical professional (which I'm uncomfortable with)

[CTALNH]

There's no need for capital punishment.

It's expensive and barbarian.

I would argue otherwise.

[CTALNH]

Really? Why are you trying to fucking derail this into a religious/gay marriage discussion?
I'm agnostic and, in some cases, anti-theist and I support the death penalty with options.

I think prisoners should get to choose means of execution. Hanging, firing squad, laughing gas, or electrocution.
Injection is ineffective and expensive.

Quit being an edgy kid and understand that not every issue can be boiled down to your preconceived notion of religious people.

You know what Utah is? A hyper-religious state, yet they don't adhere to "Thou shall not kill". If you don't adhere to one of the most basic concepts of every damn religion, you're not a good religious person.

I would argue that many religions otherwise.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

That's $50 spilt between 4.

Apparently Pierrepoint got the equivalent of £327 per execution.

Military members are salaried, not hourly, so I quasi-mathed the hourly wage of an E-4 to ~12.50, though anybody who's in the military (me) knows that this WILDLY varies from place to place and detail to detail. Plus, if you considered this hazardous duty? Oh forget it, we could nearly triple that.

"Listen, private Smith. At 1400, you're going to clean some mud off the Humvee. at 1600, you have guard duty at the north gate, and at 1700, you're tasked with executing a man charged with murdering his wife's murderers. That's four ours in total, I'll add it to your list. Dismissed.

How lowly do you thik of people, that you can cut the cost of almost everything in the process with a clear concious? Just take them out in a field, shoot them in the head, and bury them in a grave they dug themselves? It's horrific that we can talk about human beings this way at all, without a second thought.

[CTALNH]

Military members are salaried, not hourly, so I quasi-mathed the hourly wage of an E-4 to ~12.50, though anybody who's in the military (me) knows that this WILDLY varies from place to place and detail to detail. Plus, if you considered this hazardous duty? Oh forget it, we could nearly triple that.

"Listen, private Smith. At 1400, you're going to clean some mud off the Humvee. at 1600, you have guard duty at the north gate, and at 1700, you're tasked with executing a man charged with murdering his wife's murderers. That's four ours in total, I'll add it to your list. Dismissed.

How lowly do you thik of people, that you can cut the cost of almost everything in the process with a clear concious? Just take them out in a field, shoot them in the head, and bury them in a grave they dug themselves? It's horrific that we can talk about human beings this way at all, without a second thought.

Yes way because we can only feel empathy for 200 people and less.

Fuck the rest.Not literally we already have overpopulation problems.

[Zakuvia]

Military members are salaried, not hourly, so I quasi-mathed the hourly wage of an E-4 to ~12.50, though anybody who's in the military (me) knows that this WILDLY varies from place to place and detail to detail. Plus, if you considered this hazardous duty? Oh forget it, we could nearly triple that.

"Listen, private Smith. At 1400, you're going to clean some mud off the Humvee. at 1600, you have guard duty at the north gate, and at 1700, you're tasked with executing a man charged with murdering his wife's murderers. That's four ours in total, I'll add it to your list. Dismissed.

How lowly do you thik of people, that you can cut the cost of almost everything in the process with a clear concious? Just take them out in a field, shoot them in the head, and bury them in a grave they dug themselves? It's horrific that we can talk about human beings this way at all, without a second thought.

I'm not weighing on the ethics of it, strictly the economics. Is it pretty bad that we can say that someone being executed can have a dollar value? Wihtout question. But at the same time, consider what someone has to have done to be put on death row. A lot of people are going to wave up their red 'A' flags and say 'NOTHING!', but in the real world, we're talking brutal, unwarranted homicide.

[Imperializt Russia]

"Listen, private Smith. At 1400, you're going to clean some mud off the Humvee. at 1600, you have guard duty at the north gate, and at 1700, you're tasked with executing a man charged with murdering his wife's murderers. That's four ours in total, I'll add it to your list. Dismissed.

How lowly do you thik of people, that you can cut the cost of almost everything in the process with a clear concious? Just take them out in a field, shoot them in the head, and bury them in a grave they dug themselves? It's horrific that we can talk about human beings this way at all, without a second thought.

I'm not weighing on the ethics of it, strictly the economics. Is it pretty bad that we can say that someone being executed can have a dollar value? Wihtout question. But at the same time, consider what someone has to have done to be put on death row. A lot of people are going to wave up their red 'A' flags and say 'NOTHING!', but in the real world, we're talking brutal, unwarranted homicide.

>doesn't support death penalty
>must be anarchist

The fuck.

[Zakuvia]

I'm not weighing on the ethics of it, strictly the economics. Is it pretty bad that we can say that someone being executed can have a dollar value? Wihtout question. But at the same time, consider what someone has to have done to be put on death row. A lot of people are going to wave up their red 'A' flags and say 'NOTHING!', but in the real world, we're talking brutal, unwarranted homicide.

>doesn't support death penalty
>must be anarchist

The fuck.

Cute, but no. I'm not saying they are one-for-one. That being said after some thought, I can't think of any reason an Anarchist would be in favor of a state-proscribed execution.