Let the Torture Prosecutions Begin?

[Brogavia]

We should not bother with giving people that want to take away our rights and lives, treatment worthy of normal people.

The problem being, of course, that the majority of the people we've been torturing weren't actually terrorists or members of terrorist organizations. Shall I accuse you of being a member of Al Qaeda and see what you think of torture as an interrogation device?

The were enemy combatants. Thus, they are sources of intel.

[Treznor]

We should not bother with giving people that want to take away our rights and lives, treatment worthy of normal people.

The problem being, of course, that the majority of the people we've been torturing weren't actually terrorists or members of terrorist organizations. Shall I accuse you of being a member of Al Qaeda and see what you think of torture as an interrogation device?

The were enemy combatants. Thus, they are sources of intel.

Same question. The very unconstitutional MCA gave the President the right to declare anyone an "enemy combatant" regardless of nationality. So again I ask, shall we declare you an "enemy combatant" and see what you think of torture as an interrogation device?

[Vervaria]

We should not bother with giving people that want to take away our rights and lives, treatment worthy of normal people.

The problem being, of course, that the majority of the people we've been torturing weren't actually terrorists or members of terrorist organizations. Shall I accuse you of being a member of Al Qaeda and see what you think of torture as an interrogation device?

The were enemy combatants. Thus, they are sources of intel.

Most of them WEREN'T actual enemy combatants. That was the point of the post you just quoted. Being sources of intel doesn't mean the US can ignore the law whenever it pleases.

[Gopferdammi]

Enhanced Interrogation Techniques are not torture.

I'm all for classifying the use of ridiculous euphemism as torture

[Parthenon]

The were enemy combatants. Thus, they are sources of intel.

Being sources of intel doesn't mean the US can ignore the law whenever it pleases.

Yes it does.
American Lives > Foreign Lives

[Brogavia]

Same question. The very unconstitutional MCA gave the President the right to declare anyone an "enemy combatant" regardless of nationality. So again I ask, shall we declare you an "enemy combatant" and see what you think of torture as an interrogation device?

Sure, why not. America does not torture anyway.

5 months to late anyway.

[Vervaria]

The were enemy combatants. Thus, they are sources of intel.

Being sources of intel doesn't mean the US can ignore the law whenever it pleases.

Yes it does.
American Lives > Foreign Lives

No, it doesn't. There's no loophole that says you can commit illegal and highly unethical acts because you think it may save lives.

[Khithali]

To clarify my post, I was always under the impression that during the Bush era, the US did not classify waterboarding as torture, thus exploiting a loophole in the international treaty. I do not have any sources for this, it was simply the impression I had received. If I am wrong, feel free to correct me.

In general it's unwise to let the people doing the torturing define torture.

Oh, definately agreed. I cannot emphasize more that what they did was wrong and horrible. I am simply saying that they never broke the law. Yes, the law needs to be changed radically from what it was. (It might have been already, I don't know) However, prosecuting people for doing stuff you don't like that was legal at the time should never be done. It's too much of a slippery slope.

Yes it does.
American Lives > Foreign Lives

Why? Are Americans some how superior to all others? As a Brit, I particularly resent this. And before you ask, no I do not believe the British government should place British lives above foreign lives.

[Treznor]

The were enemy combatants. Thus, they are sources of intel.

Being sources of intel doesn't mean the US can ignore the law whenever it pleases.

Yes it does.
American Lives > Foreign Lives

Ah, nationalism at its finest. And people wonder why our allies started closing their doors to us.

Same question. The very unconstitutional MCA gave the President the right to declare anyone an "enemy combatant" regardless of nationality. So again I ask, shall we declare you an "enemy combatant" and see what you think of torture as an interrogation device?

Sure, why not. America does not torture anyway.

5 months to late anyway.

I'm given to understand that Mancow tried it, and was convinced to recant on the whole "waterboard isn't torture" rhetoric.

[Vervaria]

To clarify my post, I was always under the impression that during the Bush era, the US did not classify waterboarding as torture, thus exploiting a loophole in the international treaty. I do not have any sources for this, it was simply the impression I had received. If I am wrong, feel free to correct me.

In general it's unwise to let the people doing the torturing define torture.

Oh, definately agreed. I cannot emphasize more that what they did was wrong and horrible. I am simply saying that they never broke the law. Yes, the law needs to be changed radically from what it was. (It might have been already, I don't know) However, prosecuting people for doing stuff you don't like that was legal at the time should never be done. It's too much of a slippery slope.

The US has treated waterboarding as torture when it's been used on our soldiers, so I don't see the slippery slope.

[Brogavia]

No, it doesn't. There's no loophole that says you can commit illegal and highly unethical acts because you think it may save lives.

War counts.

[Vervaria]

No, it doesn't. There's no loophole that says you can commit illegal and highly unethical acts because you think it may save lives.

War counts.

I wasn't aware that the US suspended laws and all ethical standards during war.

[Treznor]

No, it doesn't. There's no loophole that says you can commit illegal and highly unethical acts because you think it may save lives.

War counts.

I wasn't aware that the US suspended laws and all ethical standards during war.

Sadly, sometimes it does. Then, after, we have to go back and clean up the mess. Even the Japanese who were imprisoned unjustly during World War II were eventually given compensation for the crimes committed against them, even if it took forty years.

[Gopferdammi]

No, it doesn't. There's no loophole that says you can commit illegal and highly unethical acts because you think it may save lives.

War counts.

Wait, I think there was something..about Genua? or Giunea? Ah, now I got it: Geneva! And something about conventions or some weird stuff like that...

[Tonaga]

No, it doesn't. There's no loophole that says you can commit illegal and highly unethical acts because you think it may save lives.

War counts.

I wasn't aware that the US suspended laws and all ethical standards during war.

Perhaps because war is unethical?

[Ravea]

I don't see why torture, when used as a punishment for which one has been duly convicted, is wrong.

Its efficacy as an interrogation technique is certainly in doubt, not to mention the myriad of moral failures when applying it to someone who hasn't actually been convicted of anything yet, but beyond that...

It's inhumane as a punishment.

As an interrogation technique it's completely worthless. The amount of accurate information gained for torture at the expense of possibly innocent people is almost nil.

[Kirav]

If one is involved in "enhanced interrogation techniques", one should at least have a formal hearing to determine the extent and nature of that involvement. It's only just.

[Farnhamia]

I don't see why torture, when used as a punishment for which one has been duly convicted, is wrong.

Its efficacy as an interrogation technique is certainly in doubt, not to mention the myriad of moral failures when applying it to someone who hasn't actually been convicted of anything yet, but beyond that...

It's inhumane as a punishment.

As an interrogation technique it's completely worthless. The amount of accurate information gained for torture at the expense of possibly innocent people is almost nil.

But hey, it's not as if we actually care about those people.

[Ravea]

The were enemy combatants. Thus, they are sources of intel.

Being sources of intel doesn't mean the US can ignore the law whenever it pleases.

Yes it does.
American Lives > Foreign Lives

Absurd.

[Grave_n_idle]

The US has treated waterboarding as torture when it's been used on our soldiers, so I don't see the slippery slope.

Perhaps more to the point, the US military has used it to try to train people 'how to resist torture' - and it was THAT training that our 'enhanced interrogation' program was BASED ON.

[Grave_n_idle]

No, it doesn't. There's no loophole that says you can commit illegal and highly unethical acts because you think it may save lives.

War counts.

No it doesn't - and, more to the point, it doesn't count by our own choice.

[Copiosa Scotia]

The were enemy combatants. Thus, they are sources of intel.

Being sources of intel doesn't mean the US can ignore the law whenever it pleases.

Yes it does.
American Lives > Foreign Lives

Surely you're familiar with something called the "rule of law"?

War counts.

You, on the other hand, may (understandably) not be familiar with Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer.

[Tonaga]

The US has treated waterboarding as torture when it's been used on our soldiers, so I don't see the slippery slope.

Perhaps more to the point, the US military has used it to try to train people 'how to resist torture' - and it was THAT training that our 'enhanced interrogation' program was BASED ON.

And this is an excuse for them??? I know they mentioned this, but it still doen seem fit!

[Vervaria]

Surely you're familiar with something called the "rule of law"?

These two(Parthenon and Brogavia) believe the law is irrelevant to the US torturing who it pleases it seems, as long as the government claims they're enemy combatants.

[Farnhamia]

Surely you're familiar with something called the "rule of law"?

These two(Parthenon and Brogavia) believe the law is irrelevant to the US torturing who it pleases.

I imagine they draw the line at American citizens, but foreigners and especially enemy combatants are fair game.