AMERICA: A Christian Nation?

[Furry Alairia and Algeria]

Things that weren't bullshit.
Let's break this down:

Move on, because the religion of the founders has nothing to do with America being Christian.

By that, most of Christianity was based on Roman Catholicism, which was actually rejected by the early founders and the people who settled here.

You really don't know what you're talking about, do you?

Christianity predates the Roman Catholic Church, Roman Catholicism is based on Christianity! It doesn't matter that the founders rejected Catholicism, they didn't reject Christianity.

Actually I do know what I'm talking about. Point to any example of a nation that adhered to every Christian tenet, and I'll move there right away.

Saying Christianity is based on Roman Catholicism is like saying Socialism was based on Communism.

And saying that is the basics of grasping at straws. Good job.

Actually I do know what I'm talking about.

Barely

Point to any example of a nation that adhered to every Christian tenet, and I'll move there right away.

Go to the holy see, maybe you'll be lucky to find a house there

[Page]

Things that weren't bullshit.
Let's break this down:

Move on, because the religion of the founders has nothing to do with America being Christian.

By that, most of Christianity was based on Roman Catholicism, which was actually rejected by the early founders and the people who settled here.

You really don't know what you're talking about, do you?

Some of them kept Christianity as their personal creed.

They all rejected Christianity as an influence on US law.

Saying Christianity is based on Roman Catholicism is like saying Socialism was based on Communism. Christianity predates the Roman Catholic Church, Roman Catholicism is based on Christianity! It doesn't matter that the founders rejected Catholicism, they didn't reject Christianity.

Actually I do know what I'm talking about. Point to any example of a nation that adhered to every Christian tenet, and I'll move there right away.

[Morr]

They simply tried to reconcile society's central faith and ideology with their lucrative cruelty. They'd be slave owners without the Bible, surely, whereas the same contention could not be as easily made in relation to the abolitionists being abolitionists.

I raise you Mark Twain.

“All right then, I’ll go to hell” -Huck Finn, when deciding not to turn over an escaped slave.

I call and raise you John Brown.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

I call and raise you John Brown.

Prove that he wouldn't have opposed slavery just as much without Christianity.

[Excidium Planetis]

No, but they did say "In God we Trust", not "In the god we trust".
We have no official religion, true, but that piece of information is hardly supportive of it.

The FF had nothing to do with the addition of "In God we Trust" into the US government, it was added in later. And is illegal because acknowledging the existence of a god excludes those belonging to a non-theistic faith.

Really? When was "In God we Trust" added then?

[Godular]

The FF had nothing to do with the addition of "In God we Trust" into the US government, it was added in later. And is illegal because acknowledging the existence of a god excludes those belonging to a non-theistic faith.

Really? When was "In God we Trust" added then?

http://www.treasury.gov/about/education/Pages/in-god-we-trust.aspx says 1864 was the first official occurrence.

[Excidium Planetis]

Christianity predates the Roman Catholic Church, Roman Catholicism is based on Christianity! It doesn't matter that the founders rejected Catholicism, they didn't reject Christianity.

Actually I do know what I'm talking about. Point to any example of a nation that adhered to every Christian tenet, and I'll move there right away.

Saying Christianity is based on Roman Catholicism is like saying Socialism was based on Communism.

And saying that is the basics of grasping at straws. Good job.

Actually I do know what I'm talking about.

Barely

Point to any example of a nation that adhered to every Christian tenet, and I'll move there right away.

Go to the holy see, maybe you'll be lucky to find a house there

The Holy See isn't a nation. Or a place, really. So you have yet to provide a good example of a truly Christian nation.

[Excidium Planetis]

Really? When was "In God we Trust" added then?

http://www.treasury.gov/about/education/Pages/in-god-we-trust.aspx says 1864 was the first official occurrence.

Officially, perhaps. I've yet to look into it.

The earliest record I can think of (off the top of my head) is in the third verse of The Star Spangled Banner, which was written during the War of 1812, but it might have been used even earlier than that. (Actually, I'm not entirely sure the third verse was written at the same time. It might have been added later.)

[Godular]

http://www.treasury.gov/about/education/Pages/in-god-we-trust.aspx says 1864 was the first official occurrence.

Officially, perhaps. I've yet to look into it.

The earliest record I can think of (off the top of my head) is in the third verse of The Star Spangled Banner, which was written during the War of 1812, but it might have been used even earlier than that. (Actually, I'm not entirely sure the third verse was written at the same time. It might have been added later.)

Officially's really the only one that matters, as that's when it was 'added'.

[Morr]

I call and raise you John Brown.

Prove that he wouldn't have opposed slavery just as much without Christianity.

Well he explicitly chalks up his major motivations to religion, specifically Hebrews 13:13. Certainly aside from that, he became an icon as a Christian martyr as demonstrated in John Brown's Body, which was enormously popular with the Union Army (and later adapted into the Battle Hymn of the Republic, even though Lincoln strongly disapproved of John Brown's actions).

[Excidium Planetis]

As I said, show me any nation that has ever existed that followed every tenet of Christianity.
Show me a nation that:
-Mandated praying for enemy nations
-Treated every crime equally
-Forgave criminals even for capital crimes
-Shared all wealth

Sure, an individual Pope can live a decently Christian life, but a nation? No, I don't think so.

What your doing is using protestant laws to apply to a nation. Those rules do not apply to every sect, just those post-reformed Christians.

No, I'm actually using laws directly from the Bible itself, which predate Protestants, Catholics, and most sects of Christianity. The Bible is pretty clear on these things, and I can probably look up verses to support it.

I'm saying there never has been a nation whose laws were founded on all the commandments in the Bible (And by that I mean both Testaments, standard canonical books). Every nation has to break at least one, and probably always more than one, even if the nation is considered a "Christian Nation" by virtue of its population or its established religion.

[Menassa]

@Morr so Non-trinitarians are Christian?

[Morr]

@Morr so Non-trinitarians are Christian?

John Brown was a Calvinist m8

But off the cuff I'd say yes. But it's extremely heretical.

[Menassa]

@Morr so Non-trinitarians are Christian?

John Brown was a Calvinist m8

But off the cuff I'd say yes. But it's extremely heretical.

So your definition is someone who has love hope and faith is a Christian?

[Morr]

John Brown was a Calvinist m8

But off the cuff I'd say yes. But it's extremely heretical.

So your definition is someone who has love hope and faith is a Christian?

My definition is someone who is driven by love, or at least tries to incorporate love as much as possible in their way of life and motivations (since love in Christianity is synonymous with God), along with accepting that Christ died for their sins, paying the price for their salvation.

[Morr]

So your definition is someone who has love hope and faith is a Christian?

My definition is someone who is driven by love, or at least tries to incorporate love as much as possible in their way of life and motivations (since love in Christianity is synonymous with God), along with accepting that Christ died for their sins, paying the price for their salvation.

Oh, and as for those who follow the former, but don't believe the latter (at least not literally), yet identify strongly as Christians, I consider them to be "cultural Christians".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Christian

[Menassa]

So your definition is someone who has love hope and faith is a Christian?

My definition is someone who is driven by love, or at least tries to incorporate love as much as possible in their way of life and motivations (since love in Christianity is synonymous with God), along with accepting that Christ died for their sins, paying the price for their salvation.

So then the Slave-owning Christians believed wholeheartedly in the latter.

[Morr]

My definition is someone who is driven by love, or at least tries to incorporate love as much as possible in their way of life and motivations (since love in Christianity is synonymous with God), along with accepting that Christ died for their sins, paying the price for their salvation.

So then the Slave-owning Christians believed wholeheartedly in the latter.

Yes, but they didn't fulfill the former, which is explicitly more important.

[Menassa]

So then the Slave-owning Christians believed wholeheartedly in the latter.

Yes, but they didn't fulfill the former, which is explicitly more important.

I'm assuming your definition of 'love' is that of Paul's?

[Morr]

Yes, but they didn't fulfill the former, which is explicitly more important.

I'm assuming your definition of 'love' is that of Paul's?

Christ's.

[Menassa]

I'm assuming your definition of 'love' is that of Paul's?

Christ's.

Which is 'love your neighbor as yourself?'

[Morr]

Christ's.

Which is 'love your neighbor as yourself?'

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

[Tekania]

http://www.treasury.gov/about/education/Pages/in-god-we-trust.aspx says 1864 was the first official occurrence.

Officially, perhaps. I've yet to look into it.

The earliest record I can think of (off the top of my head) is in the third verse of The Star Spangled Banner, which was written during the War of 1812, but it might have been used even earlier than that. (Actually, I'm not entirely sure the third verse was written at the same time. It might have been added later.)

The "In God Is Out Trust" is in the original manuscript.... but that document is of little use. The Poem was written by an Englishman, and it was not adopted as a National Anthem till 1936.

[Oil exporting People]

So like my previous threads this thread is written to avoid further threadjack in a different thread. Like the title says is America a Christian Nation?

America is most definitely not a theocracy if that is what you're getting at, but it clearly does have a Christian character to it. Besides the obvious fact that a vast majority of its citizens identify as Christian, the Founding Fathers made many references to the role they felt the faith should play in the populace.

Oh and of course the founding fathers were at best desists, and the Treaty of Tripoli is a thing

Point being what exactly? They were explicitly Christian deists, and Christian nations have carried out diplomacy with other faith-nations like Islamic countries since that faith appeared for example.

[Sun Wukong]

So like my previous threads this thread is written to avoid further threadjack in a different thread. Like the title says is America a Christian Nation?

America is most definitely not a theocracy if that is what you're getting at, but it clearly does have a Christian character to it. Besides the obvious fact that a vast majority of its citizens identify as Christian, the Founding Fathers made many references to the role they felt the faith should play in the populace.

Oh and of course the founding fathers were at best desists, and the Treaty of Tripoli is a thing

Point being what exactly? They were explicitly Christian deists, and Christian nations have carried out diplomacy with other faith-nations like Islamic countries since that faith appeared for example.

The Treaty of Tripoli explicitly says the US is not a Christian nation.