The North Korea Discussion Thread

[Reddogkeno101]

So, North Korea to most, True to Korea to others and the Democratic People's Republic of Korea officially.
North Korea is a topic of discussion that comes up quite a bit in NS and the news, so I thought it would be appropriate to create a thread.

So this week in North Korea we have:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-31581935
Foreigners banned from Pyongyang Marathon because of Ebola
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-31596976
North Korea calls on US and South Korea to cease their 'war games'
http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-ad ... 7235805071
and something to do with strange propaganda slogans
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ ... story.html
and concentration camps with North Korea's human rights record.
http://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/HRC/Co ... nDPRK.aspx
Record of human rights North Korea.

So peoples of NationStatesGeneral, what do you think about North Korea, is it a rogue state, is it True Korea, is it a totalitarian wasteland or is it something else?

My opinion: So North Korea, in my opinion, is a totalitarian rogue state that has committed crimes against humanity and has concentration camps(I admit the Australian government does too, but I do not deny or endorse it) as well as that, they are hypocrites on a scale rarely seen before. They are a threat to humanity and do not seem to understand the principle of MAD; the whole reason Nuclear Weapons exist as a deterrent

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

Basically a criminal gang that runs a country. A global embarrassment.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Ceterum censeo Koreanem esse delendam

[Zakuvia]

It's actually a case study in effective population suppression. You have to stand in awe at how the North Korean state hasn't completely imploded within the last twenty years, even as information has been trickled steadily into NK. The sad thing is that NK has practically perfected the dictatorial model, and will likely remain in power for the foreseeable future. They keep their populace completely (and literally, according to space photography) in the dark about the outside world through one of the most effective societal firewalls in the world. What little information the population does receive is utterly lunatic, but we have the advantage of being raised knowing what is sane and what isn't. The NK government has been in power for half a century at this point, and, thanks to a horrifically attritive death rate due to malnourishment and political executions, has a population that has been raised cradle to the grave ingesting the word of the state, which there is no alternative to. Psychologists are fascinated with the culture of brainwashing in NK, and see escaped members as golden idols of deprogramming project effectiveness.

As a result of wholly and permanently isolating themselves from the outside world, they've made it so that the only possible way to change their situation is a military action to depose the current state. This singular option is made practically impossible due to the fact that they have the aegis of Russia and China within walking distance, offering aid, support, and defense. The fact that any hardships the state causes can effectively be blamed on the West makes it so that it's a complete win-win for the NK state. They are untouchable. They also rely on Western naivety to trick and con their way into concessions so that htey can receive needed relief, only to renege on any false promises made. It's basic gamesmanship that they are astoundingly good at, and the West, appalingly poor. They rely on the fact that we in the West legitimately care about the people of NK, while to the government, they're simply cogs in the life-support machine that keeps it afloat.

TL;DR? North Korea is best evil Korea.

[Jetan]

Ah yes, the land of the free!

Seriously though, it sucks balls.

[Bezkoshtovnya]

Basically a criminal gang that runs a country. A global embarrassment.

I can concur.

Though its a truly morbidly fascinating piece of the world.

[Berkhamsted]

You can criticise the government of the DPRK all you want, but the truth is the United States has ruined/taken the lives of many more Koreans than the WPK, first through military warfare in the 1950s and then through economic warfare in the 1990s.

[Liberty and Linguistics]

You can criticise the government of the DPRK all you want, but the truth is the United States has ruined/taken the lives of many more Koreans than the WPK, first through military warfare in the 1950s and then through economic warfare in the 1990s.

Do the few bad actions that the US commited in the past against Korea somehow justify the many atrocities the Kim dynasty commits today? It seems that's what you're implying..

[Berkhamsted]

You can criticise the government of the DPRK all you want, but the truth is the United States has ruined/taken the lives of many more Koreans than the WPK, first through military warfare in the 1950s and then through economic warfare in the 1990s.

Do the few bad actions that the US commited in the past against Korea somehow justify the many atrocities the Kim dynasty commits today? It seems that's what you're implying..

I think it's hard to get a true picture of what reality in the DPRK is actually like. All I know is there is a lot of bullshit that gets chucked around (forcing everyone to have the same haircut, executing people by dogs, telling their population they won the world cup and so on) that I'm generally very cynical with much of what I read on the DPRK. The stories of defectors such as Shin Dong-Hyuk seem to be very inconsistent and ever changing as well.
I also dislike the way people hold South Korea as a bastion of liberty too, considering the way their government bans any left leaning party on the grounds that they are affiliated with the DPRK.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

You can criticise the government of the DPRK all you want, but the truth is the United States has ruined/taken the lives of many more Koreans than the WPK, first through military warfare in the 1950s and then through economic warfare in the 1990s.

Ah, the age-old question we all ask ourselves: Can a past wrong make a current wrong right? Actually, that is not something we are asking ourselves at all. A past wrong cannot make a current wrong right. That should be pretty obvious. The most heinous things about the DPRK have been confirmed by satellite imagery, witness accounts and defectors. Concentration camps where generations are sentenced to work themselves to death. Political dissent is snuffed into the ground. There is the constant threat of starvation and the infrastructure is hanging by a thread. It is by the force of the government that these people have not spoken out yet.

[Skappola]

Do the few bad actions that the US commited in the past against Korea somehow justify the many atrocities the Kim dynasty commits today? It seems that's what you're implying..

I think it's hard to get a true picture of what reality in the DPRK is actually like. All I know is there is a lot of bullshit that gets chucked around (forcing everyone to have the same haircut, executing people by dogs, telling their population they won the world cup and so on) that I'm generally very cynical with much of what I read on the DPRK. The stories of defectors such as Shin Dong-Hyuk seem to be very inconsistent and ever changing as well.
I also dislike the way people hold South Korea as a bastion of liberty too, considering the way their government bans any left leaning party on the grounds that they are affiliated with the DPRK.

We know a good amount about North Korea through the defectors. An estimated 2,000 people escape North Korea per year, with 55% settling in South Korea. Through these defectors (And allied espionage), we are able to know what's going on in there. Because there are so many of these defectors, the idea that the US is somehow covering up the info is thrown out. It's not as though the US can keep track of all these refugees. These refugees almost uniformly speak of an authoritarian regime with outrageous propaganda. Combined with what we know of North Korea outside of refugee anecdotes (For example, the constant threats of nuclear war, the fake town built on the DMZ, the image of North Korea completely dark due to lack of electrification), and indepth espionage by the US, we know that North Korea is an extremely authoritarian regime.

[Novia Soviet Socialist Republic]

One of the most bizarre places I've ever seen. It just seems so surreal.

[European Socialist Republic]

North Korea is best and most advanced country! No other country can beat Best Korea! Best Korea happiest place on Earth! Just ask people of North Korea who live in absolute freedom and enjoy best living standards in the world!

[Skappola]

North Korea is best and most advanced country! No other country can beat Best Korea! Best Korea happiest place on Earth! Just ask people of North Korea who live in absolute freedom and enjoy best living standards in the world!

You have been made the moderator of /r/Pyongyang.

[Infected Mushroom]

When a government kidnaps citizens from another country to make movies for them...

you know you're dealing with something quite new...

[Berkhamsted]

I think it's hard to get a true picture of what reality in the DPRK is actually like. All I know is there is a lot of bullshit that gets chucked around (forcing everyone to have the same haircut, executing people by dogs, telling their population they won the world cup and so on) that I'm generally very cynical with much of what I read on the DPRK. The stories of defectors such as Shin Dong-Hyuk seem to be very inconsistent and ever changing as well.
I also dislike the way people hold South Korea as a bastion of liberty too, considering the way their government bans any left leaning party on the grounds that they are affiliated with the DPRK.

We know a good amount about North Korea through the defectors. An estimated 2,000 people escape North Korea per year, with 55% settling in South Korea. Through these defectors (And allied espionage), we are able to know what's going on in there. Because there are so many of these defectors, the idea that the US is somehow covering up the info is thrown out. It's not as though the US can keep track of all these refugees. These refugees almost uniformly speak of an authoritarian regime with outrageous propaganda. Combined with what we know of North Korea outside of refugee anecdotes (For example, the constant threats of nuclear war, the fake town built on the DMZ, the image of North Korea completely dark due to lack of electrification), and indepth espionage by the US, we know that North Korea is an extremely authoritarian regime.

Interestingly enough, most defectors cite poor economic conditions as their prime reasons for leaving, rather than most of them having a huge gripe with the political system in the DPRK.
You talk of constant threats of nuclear war as if the DPRK is the aggressor. However, most destructive weapons on the Korean peninsula belong to the United States. Additionally, this week there have been joint military exercises conducted by the ROK and the USA, which is an indisputably provocative action.

[Zakuvia]

We know a good amount about North Korea through the defectors. An estimated 2,000 people escape North Korea per year, with 55% settling in South Korea. Through these defectors (And allied espionage), we are able to know what's going on in there. Because there are so many of these defectors, the idea that the US is somehow covering up the info is thrown out. It's not as though the US can keep track of all these refugees. These refugees almost uniformly speak of an authoritarian regime with outrageous propaganda. Combined with what we know of North Korea outside of refugee anecdotes (For example, the constant threats of nuclear war, the fake town built on the DMZ, the image of North Korea completely dark due to lack of electrification), and indepth espionage by the US, we know that North Korea is an extremely authoritarian regime.

Interestingly enough, most defectors cite poor economic conditions as their prime reasons for leaving, rather than most of them having a huge gripe with the political system in the DPRK.
You talk of constant threats of nuclear war as if the DPRK is the aggressor. However, most destructive weapons on the Korean peninsula belong to the United States. Additionally, this week there have been joint military exercises conducted by the ROK and the USA, which is an indisputably provocative action.

Right, because the US and SK have been launching rockets onto NK on a regular basis, sinkings its ships, and constantly publicly reminding them that we will bathe Pyongyang in hellfire, right?

[Berkhamsted]

You can criticise the government of the DPRK all you want, but the truth is the United States has ruined/taken the lives of many more Koreans than the WPK, first through military warfare in the 1950s and then through economic warfare in the 1990s.

Ah, the age-old question we all ask ourselves: Can a past wrong make a current wrong right? Actually, that is not something we are asking ourselves at all. A past wrong cannot make a current wrong right

I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy of exclusively blaming the DPRK government for the current situation when the United States has arguably more suffering to the Korean peninsula.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

North Korea is best and most advanced country! No other country can beat Best Korea! Best Korea happiest place on Earth! Just ask people of North Korea who live in absolute freedom and enjoy best living standards in the world!

I tried, but there is a few miles of machine guns, barbed wire, land mines and CCTV surveillance as well as a secret police keeping me from this place of ultimate freedom.

[Zakuvia]

Ah, the age-old question we all ask ourselves: Can a past wrong make a current wrong right? Actually, that is not something we are asking ourselves at all. A past wrong cannot make a current wrong right

I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy of exclusively blaming the DPRK government for the current situation when the United States has arguably more suffering to the Korean peninsula.

So it would be preferable if the whole of Korea was DPRK? Because this would have been the case sans US intervention. And of course war crimes were incurred by both sides, so let's just assume that, for the sake of it, they cancel out. I see a slightly corrupt, yet functional democracy that provides well enough for its people, with the option to leave at their leisure on one side, and...I don't know...NORTH BLOODY KOREA on the other. If you're going to say to me that South Korea would be better off as a whole under the DPRK, just so long as it meant the US kept its nose out of their business, then you're just having a giggle. A good one, no doubt, but I'll no longer be able to take what you say seriously.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Ah, the age-old question we all ask ourselves: Can a past wrong make a current wrong right? Actually, that is not something we are asking ourselves at all. A past wrong cannot make a current wrong right

I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy of exclusively blaming the DPRK government for the current situation when the United States has arguably more suffering to the Korean peninsula.

Yes, the war (caused by DPRK aggression) was very destructive, there is no denying that. But I will not have you claim that that caused more suffering than what the DPRK is doing now. Massive concentration camps and all. That's not easily topped by a war. Whereas the war's destruction was great (as in big, not as in amazing) the systemic violence of the DPRK regime and their agricultural mismanagement has caused more suffering than a war ever could. We're talking about a regime that has been in power for nearly sixty years. That's downright disgusting, isn't it?

[United Kingdom of Poland]

You can criticise the government of the DPRK all you want, but the truth is the United States has ruined/taken the lives of many more Koreans than the WPK, first through military warfare in the 1950s and then through economic warfare in the 1990s.

never mind the fact that North Korea kicked off this whole mess back in the 50's

[Skappola]

We know a good amount about North Korea through the defectors. An estimated 2,000 people escape North Korea per year, with 55% settling in South Korea. Through these defectors (And allied espionage), we are able to know what's going on in there. Because there are so many of these defectors, the idea that the US is somehow covering up the info is thrown out. It's not as though the US can keep track of all these refugees. These refugees almost uniformly speak of an authoritarian regime with outrageous propaganda. Combined with what we know of North Korea outside of refugee anecdotes (For example, the constant threats of nuclear war, the fake town built on the DMZ, the image of North Korea completely dark due to lack of electrification), and indepth espionage by the US, we know that North Korea is an extremely authoritarian regime.

Interestingly enough, most defectors cite poor economic conditions as their prime reasons for leaving, rather than most of them having a huge gripe with the political system in the DPRK.
You talk of constant threats of nuclear war as if the DPRK is the aggressor. However, most destructive weapons on the Korean peninsula belong to the United States. Additionally, this week there have been joint military exercises conducted by the ROK and the USA, which is an indisputably provocative action.

Can you get me a source that shows that poor economic conditions was the primary reason?

Most destructive weapons belong to the US? North Korea has a active military of 1,200,000, reserves numbering 600,000, and a paramilitary of 6,000,000. South Korea has a military of 3 million plus 630,000 reserves and the US only has about 28,000 troops in Korea. That's 7,800,000 vs 3,658,000 troops. Plus, North Korea has nuclear weapons, while the US lacks nuclear weapons on the Korea peninsula.

Finally, North Korea has, multiple times, threatened nuclear war and invasions when they see something they don't like. The US and South Korea don't do that. The most they do is hold joint military exercises in the area, as they've been doing on a regular scheduled basis for decades. Unless you think that these two acts are on equal grounds, North Korea is the aggressor.

[Berkhamsted]

Interestingly enough, most defectors cite poor economic conditions as their prime reasons for leaving, rather than most of them having a huge gripe with the political system in the DPRK.
You talk of constant threats of nuclear war as if the DPRK is the aggressor. However, most destructive weapons on the Korean peninsula belong to the United States. Additionally, this week there have been joint military exercises conducted by the ROK and the USA, which is an indisputably provocative action.

Can you get me a source that shows that poor economic conditions was the primary reason?

Most destructive weapons belong to the US? North Korea has a active military of 1,200,000, reserves numbering 600,000, and a paramilitary of 6,000,000. South Korea has a military of 3 million plus 630,000 reserves and the US only has about 28,000 troops in Korea. That's 7,800,000 vs 3,658,000 troops. Plus, North Korea has nuclear weapons, while the US lacks nuclear weapons on the Korea peninsula.

Finally, North Korea has, multiple times, threatened nuclear war and invasions when they see something they don't like. The US and South Korea don't do that. The most they do is hold joint military exercises in the area, as they've been doing on a regular scheduled basis for decades. Unless you think that these two acts are on equal grounds, North Korea is the aggressor.

http://www.nknews.org/2015/02/the-real- ... -struggle/

The existence of an American army in Korea is provocative, is it not? I think when it comes down to it, although the DPRK has great manpower and perhaps a nuclear weapon, the US/ROK have a far greater capacity to launch an effective offensive war.

[Berkhamsted]

You can criticise the government of the DPRK all you want, but the truth is the United States has ruined/taken the lives of many more Koreans than the WPK, first through military warfare in the 1950s and then through economic warfare in the 1990s.

never mind the fact that North Korea kicked off this whole mess back in the 50's

I think war was inevitable and blame can't solely placed at the doorstep of the DPRK, and that's if we accept the notion that they started the war and that isn't universally accepted. There were frequent border skirmishes, many of which the ROK caused, prior to the war commencing, and if anything it's a surprise war didn't break out sooner.