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I'm gay, so my child must be as well.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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United Russian Soviet States
Minister
 
Posts: 3327
Founded: Jan 07, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby United Russian Soviet States » Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:43 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Desperate Measures wrote:That would be bad.


Even if the person being murdered was also bad? :eyebrow:

That is correct.
This nation does not represent my views.
I stand with Rand.
_[' ]_
(-_Q) If you support Capitalism put this in your Sig.
:Member of the United National Group:

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Tahar Joblis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9290
Founded: Antiquity
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Tahar Joblis » Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:34 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Enatai wrote:
To quote the article:

That seemed to imply, to me, that she wants her child to choose to be gay. Maybe she didn't, and she's just not very good at getting her point across.

Or, maybe you're just selectively reading.

The idea that no one would choose to be gay is widely held — even in the gay rights movement. In the early ’90s, partly as a response to the destructive notion that gay people could be changed, activists pressed the idea of sexuality as a fixed, innate state. Scientists even tried to prove that there’s a “gay gene.” These concepts about sexual orientation helped justify the case for legal protections. The idea that folks are “born gay” became not only the theme of a Lady Gaga song, but the implicit rationale for gay rights.

You do know what the word "destructive" means, correct?
Enatai wrote:I'm giving background for people who might be bewildered at the idea that some people who are gay also happen to think that it's a choice that they made, whether or not that's true. It's the background context in which I read it and, I assumed (perhaps incorrectly, please correct me), she wrote it.

Yeah, no. She very clearly and explicitly states that the concept that gay people could be changed is "destructive" and hence she doesn't agree with it. What she is ACTUALLY saying is that she feels like the the insistence that gay people are born that way is also bad. She feels that we don't place enough emphasis on the fact that even IF gay people chose to be gay, it wouldn't matter a damn. She's saying that the insistence that people are born gay implicitly supports the idea that being gay is bad, but that it's not their fault because they're just born that way. She's saying that she disagrees with the ways the average person supports gay people, not that gay people choose to be gay.

That she feels the notion is destructive does not mean she disbelieves in the truth of it. I think the notion that one must get a college degree in order to have a good chance of getting a good job is destructive - we're now looking at student loan related debt burdens as an immensely difficult problem - but it's also true.

As evinced by the fact that she also hints at the alternative hypothesis - "gay" sexuality as innate, rather than acquired - as also problematic. There's not much territory in between denying the mutability of sexuality and the innateness of sexuality - sexuality is either environmental, inherited, or a combination of both. You are either "born that way" or can be changed some time after being born.

If you want to say that she believes something avoiding the two "problematic" alternatives, you could suggest that she believes that sexuality is uncontrollable once a child has obtained a sexuality, but does not obtain a sexuality at birth, which leaves you with some window to try to "train" your kid into the "correct" sexuality.

Is that what you think she believes?
Last edited by Tahar Joblis on Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Desperate Measures
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10149
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Desperate Measures » Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:50 am

You're just making stuff up now from nothing.
"My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music."
- Vladimir Nabokov US (1899 - 1977)
Also, me.
“Man has such a predilection for systems and abstract deductions that he is ready to distort the truth intentionally, he is ready to deny the evidence of his senses only to justify his logic”
- Fyodor Dostoyevsky Russian Novelist and Writer, 1821-1881
"All Clock Faces Are Wrong." - Gene Ray, Prophet(?) http://www.timecube.com
A simplified maxim on the subject states "An atheist would say, 'I don't believe God exists'; an agnostic would say, 'I don't know whether or not God exists'; and an ignostic would say, 'I don't know what you mean when you say, "God exists" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

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Hanchu
Diplomat
 
Posts: 595
Founded: May 08, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Hanchu » Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:28 am

Caribica wrote:I believe this is wrong, the child can be what sexual orientation she wants, lesbian or straight, and it's clear she's chosen straight.

You cant choose your sexual orientation , if you could everyone would be Bisexual at parties , Asexual at funerals , Gay in the military , and straight in church

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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 159013
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:34 am

Desperate Measures wrote:You're just making stuff up now from nothing.

You're only saying that because you want an army of gay-flying-monkey-children to do your bidding, you wicked witch.

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Desperate Measures
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10149
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Desperate Measures » Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:09 am

Ifreann wrote:
Desperate Measures wrote:You're just making stuff up now from nothing.

You're only saying that because you want an army of gay-flying-monkey-children to do your bidding, you wicked witch.

Meant to tell you - Progress! It's just the flying bit that's gone a little wonky. I've tried jetpacks but that just helps them over the containment walls. :(
"My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music."
- Vladimir Nabokov US (1899 - 1977)
Also, me.
“Man has such a predilection for systems and abstract deductions that he is ready to distort the truth intentionally, he is ready to deny the evidence of his senses only to justify his logic”
- Fyodor Dostoyevsky Russian Novelist and Writer, 1821-1881
"All Clock Faces Are Wrong." - Gene Ray, Prophet(?) http://www.timecube.com
A simplified maxim on the subject states "An atheist would say, 'I don't believe God exists'; an agnostic would say, 'I don't know whether or not God exists'; and an ignostic would say, 'I don't know what you mean when you say, "God exists" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 159013
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:15 am

Desperate Measures wrote:
Ifreann wrote:You're only saying that because you want an army of gay-flying-monkey-children to do your bidding, you wicked witch.

Meant to tell you - Progress! It's just the flying bit that's gone a little wonky. I've tried jetpacks but that just helps them over the containment walls. :(

I suppose we can only hope that they don't breed too much in the wild, being gay.

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Desperate Measures
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10149
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Desperate Measures » Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:29 am

Ifreann wrote:
Desperate Measures wrote:Meant to tell you - Progress! It's just the flying bit that's gone a little wonky. I've tried jetpacks but that just helps them over the containment walls. :(

I suppose we can only hope that they don't breed too much in the wild, being gay.

I don't think it's a worry. They're.... they're not pretty.
"My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music."
- Vladimir Nabokov US (1899 - 1977)
Also, me.
“Man has such a predilection for systems and abstract deductions that he is ready to distort the truth intentionally, he is ready to deny the evidence of his senses only to justify his logic”
- Fyodor Dostoyevsky Russian Novelist and Writer, 1821-1881
"All Clock Faces Are Wrong." - Gene Ray, Prophet(?) http://www.timecube.com
A simplified maxim on the subject states "An atheist would say, 'I don't believe God exists'; an agnostic would say, 'I don't know whether or not God exists'; and an ignostic would say, 'I don't know what you mean when you say, "God exists" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 159013
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:30 am

Desperate Measures wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I suppose we can only hope that they don't breed too much in the wild, being gay.

I don't think it's a worry. They're.... they're not pretty.

It's boar manatee all over again.

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Gauthier
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 52887
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Gauthier » Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:07 am

Ifreann wrote:
Desperate Measures wrote:I don't think it's a worry. They're.... they're not pretty.

It's boar manatee all over again.


Gay Boar Manatees. With natural leather.
Crimes committed by Muslims will be a pan-Islamic plot and proof of Islam's inherent evil. On the other hand crimes committed by non-Muslims will merely be the acts of loners who do not represent their belief system at all.
The probability of one's participation in homosexual acts is directly proportional to one's public disdain and disgust for homosexuals.
If a political figure makes an accusation of wrongdoing without evidence, odds are probable that the accuser or an associate thereof has in fact committed the very same act, possibly to a worse degree.
Where is your God-Emperor now?

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