Oklahoma Bans AP US History

[Digital Planets]

I'm still waiting on Oklahoma to legalize weed for recreational use.

[Ripoll]

Forced movement on ethnic lines is alone considered genocide, by the UN definition, which describes forced relocation as genocide. Right there, the Trail of Tears is proven genocide.

I mean the Armenian genocide was not an officially sanctioned, industrial extermination of Armenians like the Holocaust. It was forced deportation that killed a lot through hardship and cruel soldiers, much like what happened to the Native Americans.

Just because most died from disease does not in any way means the murders and institutional discrimination of Native Americans was not genocide.

The Trail of tears was purely Jackson's fault and even the supreme court upheld the rights of the indians. That isn't Genocide on America's part, that's genocide on Jackson's part.

[Sosi]

What a terrible place to live.

[Estva]

Forced movement on ethnic lines is alone considered genocide, by the UN definition, which describes forced relocation as genocide. Right there, the Trail of Tears is proven genocide.

I mean the Armenian genocide was not an officially sanctioned, industrial extermination of Armenians like the Holocaust. It was forced deportation that killed a lot through hardship and cruel soldiers, much like what happened to the Native Americans.

Just because most died from disease does not in any way means the murders and institutional discrimination of Native Americans was not genocide.

The Trail of tears was purely Jackson's fault and even the supreme court upheld the rights of the indians. That isn't Genocide on America's part, that's genocide on Jackson's part.

Who was democratically elected, and was not impeached by the democratically elected congress.

Ii mean even if it isn't full-on genocide, trying to say that the treatment of Native Americans with the institutionalized discrimination, racist bigotry, cover-ups of massacres, and justifications for raiding tribes to rape and kill, is anything but treating them nicely.

[Estva]

What a terrible place to live.

Oklahoma is a terrible place all around.

[Geilinor]

Oklahoma hasn't banned anything, this was a committee.

[Digital Planets]

The Trail of tears was purely Jackson's fault and even the supreme court upheld the rights of the indians. That isn't Genocide on America's part, that's genocide on Jackson's part.

Who was democratically elected, and was not impeached by the democratically elected congress.

Ii mean even if it isn't full-on genocide, trying to say that the treatment of Native Americans with the institutionalized discrimination, racist bigotry, cover-ups of massacres, and justifications for raiding tribes to rape and kill, is anything but treating them nicely.

Ehh, it happens.

[Estva]

Who was democratically elected, and was not impeached by the democratically elected congress.

Ii mean even if it isn't full-on genocide, trying to say that the treatment of Native Americans with the institutionalized discrimination, racist bigotry, cover-ups of massacres, and justifications for raiding tribes to rape and kill, is anything but treating them nicely.

Ehh, it happens.

"The Holocaust, ehh, it happens".

Doesn't mean we can't learn from it.

[Geilinor]

Oklahoma hasn't banned anything, this was a committee.

If this actually passes and the governor signs it, I'm going to headdesk.

[Ripoll]

Ehh, it happens.

"The Holocaust, ehh, it happens".

Doesn't mean we can't learn from it.

You can't compare it to the holocaust.

[Urran]

There are certain things such as the Trail of Tears, WW2 Internment Camps and the like that need to be discussed so that mistakes won't be made twice, but "apologetic history" be rear end.

[Estva]

"The Holocaust, ehh, it happens".

Doesn't mean we can't learn from it.

You can't compare it to the holocaust.

Yes you can. They are not equivalent but they have similarities.

[Madiganistan]

I enthusiastically support Oklahoma's initiative to ban AP US History and exploration of banning AP courses altogether, but regret their stated reason for doing so because it's effectively guaranteed that the College Board's Advanced Placement program will remain free from any serious scrutiny.

The recurring theme of conversations with AP instructors focuses on their individual frustrations of organizing lesson plans designed to help students succeed in a test about which they have no tangible information-- one teacher's lesson plan may place a great deal of emphasis on contemporary postwar American history because the teacher feels it's important for students to understand the background of modern day events, issues, and conflicts. Another teacher might spend a lot of time discussing colonial history, because it's important to understand the seeds that sewed the foundation for a new nation and lit the overflowing powder keg that ushered in a global transformation in government and the relationships between nation-states.

No matter how well each teacher succeeds in getting that point across and helps shape the student's critical thinking with the backdrop of being an informed and engaged citizen, the student is the one who suffers on testing day when he opens his packet to discover that two of the three DBQs are about the Spanish-American War.

I actually recall my own experience in the AP program revolving around my teacher's educated guesses on what the test's emphasis might be based on trends in the exam's content of the past decade or so-- if Common Core hinders the teacher's ability to exercise individual judgement in determining lesson plans and connecting with students in a constructive way, then Advanced Placement is downright sabotage.

Oh, and it *is* worth mentioning that Howard Zinn, author of "A People's History of the United States," (the book I was personally taught APUSH out of, and is apparently widely used for the course) actually *was* an America-hating communist. And not even in the "Obama is an America-hating communist" way either (which is to say not at all).

[Geilinor]

I enthusiastically support Oklahoma's initiative to ban AP US History and exploration of banning AP courses altogether, but regret their stated reason for doing so because it's effectively guaranteed that the College Board's Advanced Placement program will remain free from any serious scrutiny.

The recurring theme of conversations with AP instructors focuses on their individual frustrations of organizing lesson plans designed to help students succeed in a test about which they have no tangible information-- one teacher's lesson plan may place a great deal of emphasis on contemporary postwar American history because the teacher feels it's important for students to understand the background of modern day events, issues, and conflicts. Another teacher might spend a lot of time discussing colonial history, because it's important to understand the seeds that sewed the foundation for a new nation and lit the overflowing powder keg that ushered in a global transformation in government and the relationships between nation-states.

No matter how well each teacher succeeds in getting that point across and helps shape the student's critical thinking with the backdrop of being an informed and engaged citizen, the student is the one who suffers on testing day when he opens his packet to discover that two of the three DBQs are about the Spanish-American War.

I actually recall my own experience in the AP program revolving around my teacher's educated guesses on what the test's emphasis might be based on trends in the exam's content of the past decade or so-- if Common Core hinders the teacher's ability to exercise individual judgement in determining lesson plans and connecting with students in a constructive way, then Advanced Placement is downright sabotage.

Oh, and it *is* worth mentioning that Howard Zinn, author of "A People's History of the United States," (the book I was personally taught APUSH out of, and is apparently widely used for the course) actually *was* an America-hating communist. And not even in the "Obama is an America-hating communist" way either (which is to say not at all).

It depends on how the AP teacher is trained, but in my opinion it was fine. I wasn't taught out of "A People's History..." though.

[Estva]

I enthusiastically support Oklahoma's initiative to ban AP US History and exploration of banning AP courses altogether, but regret their stated reason for doing so because it's effectively guaranteed that the College Board's Advanced Placement program will remain free from any serious scrutiny.

The recurring theme of conversations with AP instructors focuses on their individual frustrations of organizing lesson plans designed to help students succeed in a test about which they have no tangible information-- one teacher's lesson plan may place a great deal of emphasis on contemporary postwar American history because the teacher feels it's important for students to understand the background of modern day events, issues, and conflicts. Another teacher might spend a lot of time discussing colonial history, because it's important to understand the seeds that sewed the foundation for a new nation and lit the overflowing powder keg that ushered in a global transformation in government and the relationships between nation-states.

No matter how well each teacher succeeds in getting that point across and helps shape the student's critical thinking with the backdrop of being an informed and engaged citizen, the student is the one who suffers on testing day when he opens his packet to discover that two of the three DBQs are about the Spanish-American War.

I actually recall my own experience in the AP program revolving around my teacher's educated guesses on what the test's emphasis might be based on trends in the exam's content of the past decade or so-- if Common Core hinders the teacher's ability to exercise individual judgement in determining lesson plans and connecting with students in a constructive way, then Advanced Placement is downright sabotage.

Oh, and it *is* worth mentioning that Howard Zinn, author of "A People's History of the United States," (the book I was personally taught APUSH out of, and is apparently widely used for the course) actually *was* an America-hating communist. And not even in the "Obama is an America-hating communist" way either (which is to say not at all).

I also took AP Euro(which covers a greater span of time over a larger area) and got a perfect score without studying.

AP Tests don't affect your GPA because they don't affect your class grade. If your individual teacher screws up you might fail the AP Test but the class final is still based on what the teacher is presenting in class. There's no reason to deny kids college credit.

[Luziyca]

Unpatriotic and negative?

The purpose of history is to tell the truth, regardless of what it is.

Indeed.

[New Comfederate States of America]

I love Oklahoma (plan on moving there) and I'm very conservative, but as a student currently in APUSH, I think banning the curriculum is just reticulum. The history of America does have some negative parts in it and some screwed up things occurred (as someone who is about 60% Native American I can attest to that). Personally, I don't care for the APUSH curriculum and think it's a bunch of progressive bullcrap, but banning it is just plain out stupid.

[Madiganistan]

I also took AP Euro(which covers a greater span of time over a larger area) and got a perfect score without studying.

I also took Euro and World. Got a 5 on Euro after realizing I'd skipped one of the FRQs.

AP Tests don't affect your GPA because they don't affect your class grade.

The fact that you (and to be fair, most people) think this is the most consequential result of a teachers' relationships with their students is what's so goddamned wrong with our newfound love affair with standardized testing.

There's no reason to deny kids college credit.

Perhaps, but it's ENTIRELY a reason to question whether the experience is actually *worth* college credit.
Dual-enrollment courses are free from the scourge of the AP Lottery *and* actually familiarizes students with a realistic expectation of what a postsecondary academic environment will expect of them.

[Geilinor]

I also took AP Euro(which covers a greater span of time over a larger area) and got a perfect score without studying.

I also took Euro and World. Got a 5 on Euro after realizing I'd skipped one of the FRQs.

AP Tests don't affect your GPA because they don't affect your class grade.

The fact that you (and to be fair, most people) think this is the most consequential result of a teachers' relationships with their students is what's so goddamned wrong with our newfound love affair with standardized testing.

Your class grade has nothing to do with standardized testing.

[Estva]

AP Tests don't affect your GPA because they don't affect your class grade.

The fact that you (and to be fair, most people) think this is the most consequential result of a teachers' relationships with their students is what's so goddamned wrong with our newfound love affair with standardized testing.

You might have a point if we were speaking about the ACT, or a class final, but these are at worst neutral to a college career.

Perhaps, but it's ENTIRELY a reason to question whether the experience is actually *worth* college credit.
Dual-enrollment courses are free from the scourge of the AP Lottery *and* actually familiarizes students with a realistic expectation of what a postsecondary academic environment will expect of them.

If a university accepts AP credit(and they can require scores), it is worth college credit.

[Madiganistan]

I also took Euro and World. Got a 5 on Euro after realizing I'd skipped one of the FRQs.


The fact that you (and to be fair, most people) think this is the most consequential result of a teachers' relationships with their students is what's so goddamned wrong with our newfound love affair with standardized testing.

Your class grade has nothing to do with standardized testing.

"Testing culture," then. Whatever fucking semantics you want to emphasize, the problem is the perception that a number can accurately quantify a student's aptitude and willingness to learn.

[Madiganistan]

Perhaps, but it's ENTIRELY a reason to question whether the experience is actually *worth* college credit.
Dual-enrollment courses are free from the scourge of the AP Lottery *and* actually familiarizes students with a realistic expectation of what a postsecondary academic environment will expect of them.

If a university accepts AP credit(and they can require scores), it is worth college credit.

You interpreted the point of that sentence using the wrong definition of the word "worth."

[Geilinor]

Your class grade has nothing to do with standardized testing.

"Testing culture," then. Whatever fucking semantics you want to emphasize, the problem is the perception that a number can accurately quantify a student's aptitude and willingness to learn.

There are other things grades include, not only tests. And yes, I will use semantics.

[Estva]

You're using the wrong interpretation of the word "worth."

If a teacher fails them, they aren't prepared. If they don't, they are.

There is no reason to punish those that don't.

[Uawc]

I'm not surprised one bit, this is a fairly typical thing.