Copenhagen shooting during debate on Islam

[Alyakia]

17.32 Suspected Copenhagen gunman was 22, born and raised in Denmark: TV

did anyone post this btw

[Alyakia]

What, exactly, is absurd about this?

Finally, this law stuff is going to pay off in my endless internet arguments.

"...terrorist offences are intentional acts which, given their nature or context, may seriously damage a country or an international organisation when committed with the aim of:
• seriously intimidating a population, or
• unduly compelling a government or international organisation
to perform or abstain from performing an act, or
• seriously destabilising or destroying the fundamental political,
constitutional, economic or social structures of a
country or an international organisation."

Let's examine a speech given by Nigel Farage in the European Parliament - in fact, nearly any speech he has made in the European Parliament. Is it an intentional act? Yes, it is an intentional act. Could it seriously damage an international organisation? Yes, it could seriously damage an international organisation. Is this done to seriously destabilize or destroy 'the fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures of (...) an international organisation'? Yes, it is. Do you see the problem here? The problem here is that the definition extends not just to violent actions, but to any intentional action (including speech) which is meant to and could result in the destabilization or destruction of the European Union or any country (not just member states).

Under this definition, it is defensible when practical to brand political opposition to a certain idea or a certain government as terrorism. For example, one of the reasons why European Union member states arrested dozens of Kurdish activists a few years ago was because those activists were getting in the way of the Turkish government, and the Turkish government wanted them to take action. In my country, fifty-five people who hadn't committed any crimes against my country or our legal order were arrested for political crimes.

And, well, with a definition like that, as well as a lot of ideological zealots in office who are hell-bent on picking low-hanging fruits, you're going to see some really unlikely things being branded terrorism.

Maybe you meant the 2013 report? If you did, you have failed to notice that the English Defence League is not mentioned under terrorism, but rather violent right-wing extremism, while Génération Identitaire remains unmentioned (Same as with the 2014 report).

TE-SAT 2013, which deals with terrorism in the year 2012. That's the one I meant. I did not mention the 2014 report at all, so I have no idea where you got that idea from.
Anyway, I will direct you to it. Page 37, under Chapter 5.

A phenomenon that has developed recently on social media is a movement, established initially in France, which opposes multiculturalism and French social politics. The movement uses the Lambda symbol as a logo. It has received significant positive feedback and to date has been replicated in Belgium, Germany and Austria. This movement advocates a national, racially-defined identity to counteract a perceived demographic imbalance caused by increasing immigration.

do you have an actual provable example of people that haven't planned/attempted/committed terrorist attacks being labelled under planned/attempted/committed terrorist attacks or are you just insisting they're counting you as terrorists for some reason because they mentioned you

[Eldslandet]

Having a Muslim minority increases terrorism without an argument.

The more muslims you have, the more terrorist attacks you have.

Finland? Zero muslims, zero terrorist attacks. Coincidence? No.

Poverty?

Poland? Poor, lots of poverty, zero muslims, zero terrorist attacks.

Abortion bombings?

Poland? 97% Catholic, zero abortion bombings, abortion legal.

France? 10% Muslims - terrorist attacks.
UK? 10% Muslim - terrorist attacks.
Denmark? Sweden? terrorist attacks.

Bosnia? 50% Muslim - war.

the UK was pretty much free of terrorism until the muslims came

LOL no. What about the IRA?

[Eastfield Lodge]

the UK was pretty much free of terrorism until the muslims came

LOL no. What about the IRA?

Sarcasm.

[Sun Wukong]

the UK was pretty much free of terrorism until the muslims came

LOL no. What about the IRA?

See NSG: this is why we can't have subtlety.

[Catholic Federalized States]

Lovely to see this has gone from a discussion about shootings to "BAN MUSLIMS."

At no point has anyone entered [fascist] and requested an outright ban of Islam.

If the perpetrator is Muslim, Islam terrorism topics are bound to come up

[The Alma Mater]

17.32 Suspected Copenhagen gunman was 22, born and raised in Denmark: TV

did anyone post this btw

Yep. He was also carrying IS propaganda material.

[Quintium]

do you have an actual provable example of people that haven't planned/attempted/committed terrorist attacks being labelled under planned/attempted/committed terrorist attacks or are you just insisting they're counting you as terrorists for some reason because they mentioned you

This is not about me. I'm not mentioned specifically, although I have no doubt that my government is keeping a tab on me and others like me because we sometimes act as 'opinion leaders', posting 'hate-filled messages' in places where hundreds of people - some of them not yet convinced by our arguments - can see them.

No, I'm talking about those fifty-five Kurds, arrested at the same time at a holiday park where they were holding a cultural meeting. They were suspected of being members of the Kurdish Workers' Party (PKK), and as that party and all activity related to it is banned in the Netherlands they were all arrested, making up 100% of all arrests in the Netherlands for separatist or ethno-nationalist offences by the definition of Europol (and yes, that definition is for terrorism) that year. As it turned out later, it was a normal, legal meeting, and the Kurdish Federation in the Netherlands lodged a complaint stating that the Dutch government was acting on little to no evidence to please the Turkish government.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

I need a source on that prison population.

Yes, you have more criminals as the population increases. He didn't say it increases disproportionately.

The number of mosques also disproportionately correlate with the number of violent crimes. The population density does not explain the disproportionate number of crimes committed by muslim-heavy départements.

And don't bother about "profiling" arguments.

I don't speak French. Get me English sources.

[The Alma Mater]

The number of mosques also disproportionately correlate with the number of violent crimes. The population density does not explain the disproportionate number of crimes committed by muslim-heavy départements.

And don't bother about "profiling" arguments.

I don't speak French. Get me English sources.

One 2 second google later:
http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/ ... ther-unity
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... isons.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02560.html

Yes, they are not government sources. But those are - surprisingly - in French

[Gauthier]

the UK was pretty much free of terrorism until the muslims came

LOL no. What about the IRA?

IRA really stood for Islamic Republican Army. *nod nod*

[Quintium]

Suspected Copenhagen gunman was 22, born and raised in Denmark

According to some newspaper, this was the guy.

Omar Abdel Hamid El-Hussein, 22.

[Alyakia]

it is good to see that we have learned our lesson about posting pictures of people without authorization or confirmation from the police

[Catholic Federalized States]

The number of mosques also disproportionately correlate with the number of violent crimes. The population density does not explain the disproportionate number of crimes committed by muslim-heavy départements.

And don't bother about "profiling" arguments.

I don't speak French. Get me English sources.

I'm sorry, France, being a French-speaking country, generally does not release statistics in English.

Use Google Translate.

[Quintium]

I'm sorry, France, being a French-speaking country, generally does not release statistics in English.

Use Google Translate.

It's already been covered, right? The Telegraph in Britain has reported on this issue, and so have the Washington Post and the Economist. And apparently, the latter has based its figure of '60%' on a parliamentary report. And while the Dutch government is not too keen on gathering these statistics either, I've seen figures of anywhere between 30 and 60 percent for the Netherlands as well. But never mind, we're not allowed to see sociological trends if they do not fit the dominant political narrative in Europe.

[Catholic Federalized States]

I'm sorry, France, being a French-speaking country, generally does not release statistics in English.

Use Google Translate.

It's already been covered, right? The Telegraph in Britain has reported on this issue, and so have the Washington Post and the Economist. And apparently, the latter has based its figure of '60%' on a parliamentary report. And while the Dutch government is not too keen on gathering these statistics either, I've seen figures of anywhere between 30 and 60 percent for the Netherlands as well. But never mind, we're not allowed to see sociological trends if they do not fit the dominant political narrative in Europe.

Governments tend to suppress racial research in Europe due to extreme political correctness that is rife in this part of the world. It's obvious that most Western European nations tend to have their prisons filled with Muslims. I think Germany also has a significant part of it's prison system filled with people who hold only one passport: Turkish.

Unfortunately we are force-fed tolerance of the intolerable in a system where free speech is only allowed if the other person doesn't get offended and doesn't shove their religious book in your face. The explanation for all this is that crime has no correlation with religious affiliation, neither does terrorism or whatever else, and it's only a "small irrelevant part" of a religious group. God forbid you have something to say that counters this or actually pull out statistics, and that's why they aren't given.

[The Alma Mater]

I'm sorry, France, being a French-speaking country, generally does not release statistics in English.

Use Google Translate.

It's already been covered, right? The Telegraph in Britain has reported on this issue, and so have the Washington Post and the Economist. And apparently, the latter has based its figure of '60%' on a parliamentary report. And while the Dutch government is not too keen on gathering these statistics either, I've seen figures of anywhere between 30 and 60 percent for the Netherlands as well. But never mind, we're not allowed to see sociological trends if they do not fit the dominant political narrative in Europe.

Numbers for the Netherlands are much lower. While they indeed do not publish figures on religion, data on "etnicity" is available. If we assume the mentioned Turks (4,9%) and Moroccans (10,6%) are all muslims we arrive slightly below 16%. Toss in the 11% of "nonwesterners" and it becomes 27% - and by now we have made quite a few assumptions already.

http://statline.cbs.nl/StatWeb/publicat ... 1NED&LA=NL

Of course, those numbers - especially those of the Moroccans - are still shockingly high compared to the size of the population.

[The Black Forrest]

Finland? Zero muslims, zero terrorist attacks. Coincidence? No.

Muslims have been in Finland since the time of the Tartars.

They were about .2% of the population in 2004.

The Finns have Muslims fighting in Syria....

http://yle.fi/uutiset/security_intellig ... ts/7676854

[Quintium]

http://statline.cbs.nl/StatWeb/publication/?VW=T&DM=SLNL&PA=82321NED&LA=NL

Let's see what we have there. As you can see, there were 42,700 prisoners in the Netherlands in 2013. Of those, only 15,660 were Dutch. 19,010 of them were non-western migrants. That means: 36.7% of Dutch prisoners are Dutch, and 44.5% were non-western migrants. The Turks and the Moroccans are not the only Muslim groups we have here, and 11% are 'non-western, other'. What's more, 9.7% are from Suriname, where 13.9% of the population is Muslim. If you add up all Muslims, you'd come frighteningly close to the lower estimate of 30%.

[Catholic Federalized States]

Finland? Zero muslims, zero terrorist attacks. Coincidence? No.

Muslims have been in Finland since the time of the Tartars.

They were about .2% of the population in 2004.

The Finns have Muslims fighting in Syria....

http://yle.fi/uutiset/security_intellig ... ts/7676854

"Zero" does not literally mean zero. The same way "zero unemployment" does not literally mean zero unemployment, just unemployment under 4%.

The number of Muslims in Finland is very disproportionate to their population in relation to other European nations, like their number of terrorist attacks and violent crimes.

[The Alma Mater]

http://statline.cbs.nl/StatWeb/publication/?VW=T&DM=SLNL&PA=82321NED&LA=NL

Let's see what we have there. As you can see, there were 42,700 prisoners in the Netherlands in 2013. Of those, only 15,660 were Dutch. 19,010 of them were non-western migrants. That means: 36.7% of Dutch prisoners are Dutch, and 44.5% were non-western migrants. The Turks and the Moroccans are not the only Muslim groups we have here, and 11% are 'non-western, other'. What's more, 9.7% are from Suriname, where 13.9% of the population is Muslim. If you add up all Muslims, you'd come frighteningly close to the lower estimate of 30%.

True, but as I said that includes many assumptions. For one, the nonwestern migrants also include the rather substantial group known as "Chinese" - so assuming they are all muslims is a bit of a longshot.
Still, even at the low estimate the number is much larger than it should be. It gets even worse if one splits it down in types of crime - it is mostly violent.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

I don't speak French. Get me English sources.

One 2 second google later:
http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/ ... ther-unity
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... isons.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02560.html

Yes, they are not government sources. But those are - surprisingly - in French

OK, now I believe him. Sort of.

Muslims have been in Finland since the time of the Tartars.

They were about .2% of the population in 2004.

The Finns have Muslims fighting in Syria....

http://yle.fi/uutiset/security_intellig ... ts/7676854

"Zero" does not literally mean zero. The same way "zero unemployment" does not literally mean zero unemployment, just unemployment under 4%.

The number of Muslims in Finland is very disproportionate to their population in relation to other European nations, like their number of terrorist attacks and violent crimes.

So because they're not reported by international news, means Finland doesn't have much violent crime.

[Mike the Progressive]

Time for more all Muslims are terrorists in waiting bullcrap.

I don't think most people think that. But we cannot ignore that most acts of global terror are committed by Islamic extremists. That the concern is over extreme elements in Islam.

[Catholic Federalized States]

One 2 second google later:
http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/ ... ther-unity
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... isons.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02560.html

Yes, they are not government sources. But those are - surprisingly - in French

OK, now I believe him. Sort of.

"Zero" does not literally mean zero. The same way "zero unemployment" does not literally mean zero unemployment, just unemployment under 4%.

The number of Muslims in Finland is very disproportionate to their population in relation to other European nations, like their number of terrorist attacks and violent crimes.

So because they're not reported by international news, means Finland doesn't have much violent crime.

Is it also a coincidence that Poland, the country with the least muslims-to-population, has the lowest fire-arm related death count in Europe, while Montenegro, the country with the third highest muslims-to-population rate, has the highest fire-arm related deaths in Europe?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... death_rate

http://statline.cbs.nl/StatWeb/publication/?VW=T&DM=SLNL&PA=82321NED&LA=NL

Let's see what we have there. As you can see, there were 42,700 prisoners in the Netherlands in 2013. Of those, only 15,660 were Dutch. 19,010 of them were non-western migrants. That means: 36.7% of Dutch prisoners are Dutch, and 44.5% were non-western migrants. The Turks and the Moroccans are not the only Muslim groups we have here, and 11% are 'non-western, other'. What's more, 9.7% are from Suriname, where 13.9% of the population is Muslim. If you add up all Muslims, you'd come frighteningly close to the lower estimate of 30%.

Perhaps that's why the number of crimes in the Netherlands is the same as the number of crimes as in Poland, a country with twice it's population.

[Herskerstad]

Time for more all Muslims are terrorists in waiting bullcrap.

I don't think most people think that. But we cannot ignore that most acts of global terror are committed by Islamic extremists. That the concern is over extreme elements in Islam.

Yup, until there is a new branch that spiritualizes pretty much all the violence, it will never be western-compatible as far as doctrines go.

Of course, given that most of those who defend it have no earthly idea what it teaches, but stand all too willing to defend it. Then yeah, welcome to the west.