Copenhagen shooting during debate on Islam

[The Huskar Social Union]

He clearly was never in Paris. You can't drive around la Tour Eiffel, because it's inside the Parc du Champs de Mars.

It turns out there are rather a lot of Eiffel Tower replicas. Also places named Paris. Some of them are actually located in towns named Paris (in Texas, Tennessee, and Michigan) but these are all at substantially reduced scales. So it's possible that the unknown "rich guy" was actually in America during a Muslim-American Pride Festival, and was an idiot. But it's probable that the "idiot" part goes without saying.

Tsar laying down the Rekt.

[Trevor Phillip Enterprises]

He clearly was never in Paris. You can't drive around la Tour Eiffel, because it's inside the Parc du Champs de Mars.

It turns out there are rather a lot of Eiffel Tower replicas. Also places named Paris. Some of them are actually located in towns named Paris (in Texas, Tennessee, and Michigan) but these are all at substantially reduced scales. So it's possible that the unknown "rich guy" was actually in America during a Muslim-American Pride Festival, and was an idiot. But it's probable that the "idiot" part goes without saying.

What this guy said, much better than I did.

[Master Shake]

He clearly was never in Paris. You can't drive around la Tour Eiffel, because it's inside the Parc du Champs de Mars.

It turns out there are rather a lot of Eiffel Tower replicas. Also places named Paris. Some of them are actually located in towns named Paris (in Texas, Tennessee, and Michigan) but these are all at substantially reduced scales. So it's possible that the unknown "rich guy" was actually in America during a Muslim-American Pride Festival, and was an idiot. But it's probable that the "idiot" part goes without saying.

Damn, So the Champs-Élysées with Lambo's and other supercars being driven by muslims was in Texas or Tennessee?

Huh news to me...never been outside of California...except Las Vegas that one time when I was 13...man the hookers were giving out awesome reading material and everything...

best vacation ever,,,,I wish they didn't manhattenize Vegas...now it looks stupid and like NYC...

[Greed and Death]

It turns out there are rather a lot of Eiffel Tower replicas. Also places named Paris. Some of them are actually located in towns named Paris (in Texas, Tennessee, and Michigan) but these are all at substantially reduced scales. So it's possible that the unknown "rich guy" was actually in America during a Muslim-American Pride Festival, and was an idiot. But it's probable that the "idiot" part goes without saying.

What this guy said, much better than I did.

Yeah I grew up assuming that Paris without a qualifier meant Paris, Texas.

[Reploid Productions]

There we go. Split the psuedo-IC and related posts out, sent a TG to the guy to point him to the roleplay forums and the Mentors. Carry on!

[Master Shake]

Anyway we were talking about muslims and western Europe and other issues not relating to NSG...

So yeah... where were we?

Is France persecuting the Muslims like Germany did to the Israelis?

Wait no that ain't it...

Umm...Denmark needs to find these extremists!

[Sebtopiaris]

Oh fucking hell. Not again.

[The Justinian Horde]

People keep dying for the freedom of expression. But an easier way of keeping freedom of expression without bloodshed is not taking it too far. I assume this is an attack at the cartoonist, who probably should have known better, given the high tensions as of late.

Victim blaming , wow

[West Aurelia]

There we go. Split the psuedo-IC and related posts out, sent a TG to the guy to point him to the roleplay forums and the Mentors. Carry on!

Hmm, you deleted my post but my post count stayed the same...

[Quintium]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Terrorist_Attacks_in_the_EU_by_Affiliation.png

The problem with Europol is that it has an absurd definition of terrorism and terrorist groups. Reading their report for 2012, it is easy to see why separatists and the far-right are behind most 'acts of terrorism' if I look at the organisations they consider to be terrorist and the actions they consider to be terrorist. For example, the Génération Identitaire (whose only claim to fame is peacefully occupying the Poitiers mosque) is considered a terrorist organisation, and so is the English Defence League. In fact, the report makes clear that all organisations that are anti-Islam or against Muslim immigration or oppose multiculturalism are considered far-right extremists.

In addition, when it comes to animal cruelty, organisations that wanted to free animals from testing departments are also considered terrorist. Activists who tried to prevent the construction of a high-speed train link near Turin were also considered terrorists.

But do you want to know the best bit? Among the ethno-nationalists and separatists are named the Partiya Karkeren Kurdistan and the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam. In my country, all 55 people arrested in 2012 for ethno-nationalist or separatist attacks were members of the Partiya Karkeren Kurdistan.

[Imperium Persarum]

I wonder how many more innocent people have to die for people to wake up and realize what Islam truly is. Oh wells. I want to hope that this is the last one, but I know it isn't. My heart goes out to the victims.

[Baltenstein]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Terrorist_Attacks_in_the_EU_by_Affiliation.png

The problem with Europol is that it has an absurd definition of terrorism and terrorist groups. Reading their report for 2012, it is easy to see why separatists and the far-right are behind most 'acts of terrorism' if I look at the organisations they consider to be terrorist and the actions they consider to be terrorist. For example, the Génération Identitaire (whose only claim to fame is peacefully occupying the Poitiers mosque) is considered a terrorist organisation, and so is the English Defence League. In fact, the report makes clear that all organisations that are anti-Islam or against Muslim immigration or oppose multiculturalism are considered far-right extremists.

In addition, when it comes to animal cruelty, organisations that wanted to free animals from testing departments are also considered terrorist. Activists who tried to prevent the construction of a high-speed train link near Turin were also considered terrorists.

But do you want to know the best bit? Among the ethno-nationalists and separatists are named the Partiya Karkeren Kurdistan and the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam. In my country, all 55 people arrested in 2012 for ethno-nationalist or separatist attacks were members of the Partiya Karkeren Kurdistan.

Well, their causes are ethno-nationalist separatism. Where else would you file them under?

[Quintium]

Well, their causes are ethno-nationalist separatism. Where else would you file them under?

'Foreign insurgencies', or 'exiled nationalist movements'. In any case, something which does not create the misconception that it's native ethno-nationalism causing most of these 'attacks' (though in my country, with apparently one of the highest numbers of arrests in that category, I did not hear or see anything about it, so I assume it's things like spray-painting 'PKK' on Turkish community centres and mosques).

[The Alma Mater]

It is true that the media seems to prefer the negative outlook.

"A few muslims do something bad ? Let us show interviews with other muslims whose idea of condemnation is saying "yes, that's bad, but... (insert long list of excuses that imply it is all the fault of the west, Israel etc. and NOT of the jerks themselves)."

"A few muslims organise a protest against IS violence ? Quickly - let us show only a few dozen showed up and then move to the thousands of angry muslims protesting against the drawings of Hebdo ! "

Etc. etc.

But that just means that you are not being loud enough.
As I said: there is unequality here. You sadly have no choice but to work even harder. VASTLY harder.

But here's the thing: When we are being falsely represented, and we have no obligation to anyone but Our Creator to show any sort of political stance on any issue, we may or may not chose to give up and go on with our lives.

The shitty part of "Be louder!" is that when we get loud, people interpret being loud with being angry. And it doesn't matter what you message is, if you shout it, people are going to accuse you of things. In our case, if we get loud about condemning fundies, we get painted as "Outraged Muslims Upset About Stuff." ie, they are going to paint us negatively no matter what we do. Unless everyone stops buying into their fear-mongering, there is nothing we can do but be quiet and try to go unnoticed by the racist down the street who is going to blame the Nigerian mother of three who came to a new country to live a better life for a murder that a half-Arabic man committed half a world away.

Does not work, sadly. That attitude would simply be interpreted as "see, they are once again blaming others and take no responsibility whatsoever".

The solution ? Hire a good PR guy.

[Lordieth]

I wonder how many more innocent people have to die for people to wake up and realize what Islam truly is. Oh wells. I want to hope that this is the last one, but I know it isn't. My heart goes out to the victims.

Islam is no better or worse than any other Abrahamic religion. Have you read the bible recently? It's not actually exactly and rainbows either. What's going on here is a deeply complicated set of issues both culturally, geographically and socially, and you can't just boil it down to "Dem ebil Islamists".

Fundamentalism is clearly the big issue, but there seems to be this horrible acceptance that this is just the way things are, and that's what disturbs me most.

[Australian rePublic]

Terrorists are horrible, horriblepeople. What an unfortunateevent

[Quintium]

Islam is no better or worse than any other Abrahamic religion. Have you read the bible recently? It's not actually exactly and rainbows either.

Actually, I disagree. While there are some violent passages in the Bible, they are not the bulk of the Bible. The Bible reads mainly like a book of parables, moral lessons and rules, especially the New Testament. The Quran reads mainly like a field manual for military officers who are about to go on a military campaign. It keeps talking about the rules of war (go out and expand, but only fight defensively for a few months each year because you also have to spend time on religious obligations), and when you are allowed to violate a truce (when your enemies are unbelievers, and they have betrayed you or you are in a position of relative strength), and what you should do to prisoners of war (you're not allowed to take prisoners until you have killed a fair number of the men if they've surrendered, and then you are allowed to capture them and their women and daughters and are allowed to rape the latter two). And in fact, many of the Hadiths explaining the specific passages of the Quran that I'm referring to do mention that they were 'revealed' with warfare in mind. For example, the rule that you are allowed to rape the wives of captive men was 'sent down' just as Muhammed's men were returning from a military campaign with a lot of captive men and women and asked Muhammed if they were allowed to rape those women despite the fact that they were married. Muhammed then declared that he had received, from God, an answer: yes, it is permitted to rape the wives of your captives, if your captives are unbelievers.

Fundamentalism is clearly the big issue, but there seems to be this horrible acceptance that this is just the way things are, and that's what disturbs me most.

It's acceptance, but of a descriptive kind and not of a normative kind. You won't find me approving of Islam in any way, but this is just what the Quran says is right. This is the real Islam, and we're going to see now why people like the Greeks, the Indians, the non-Muslim Sub-Saharan Africans and the Chinese have such a distaste of the real Islam. Because what's happening in Northern Europe now has been happening in Southern Europe, in Sub-Saharan Africa, in and around India and in the western parts of China for centuries. Why? Because the Quran says it must.

[Imperium Persarum]

I wonder how many more innocent people have to die for people to wake up and realize what Islam truly is. Oh wells. I want to hope that this is the last one, but I know it isn't. My heart goes out to the victims.

Islam is no better or worse than any other Abrahamic religion. Have you read the bible recently? It's not actually exactly and rainbows either. What's going on here is a deeply complicated set of issues both culturally, geographically and socially, and you can't just boil it down to "Dem ebil Islamists".

Fundamentalism is clearly the big issue, but there seems to be this horrible acceptance that this is just the way things are, and that's what disturbs me most.

I never said I liked Christianity, either.

Well, I don't see how it's that complicated, given that an infallible Imam in the Shia faith had, centuries ago, said that people who disrespect the Prophet must be killed, regardless of where they live, what faith they adhere to or even whether they repent or not. This is what the Shia believe in. I live in a Shia country and was raised one, so I would know. It's funny, because the more I read about Islam and its 'peaceful' history, the more I see that the Fundies are practicing the actual Islam. All the people that were killed during the Muslim conquests, all the countries, nations and ethnic groups, beliefs and ideas that ceased to exist as a direct consequence of the Arab invasions... They kind of make me think, you know. My country was thoroughly Arabicized and the language of my compatriots was reduced to the state it is in today, a mixture of Arabic and other foreign elements (not that I'm a xenophobe or whatever; I just hate the dependency of the language on Arabic). THIS is what Islam has wrought.

Also, the cultural issues aren't that complicated either. The Islamic faith is incompatible with Western values. That's it, really; those who live normal lives in the West, supposedly remaining Muslims, wouldn't be considered one in a conservative Muslim state. When a person tries to strike a balance of some sort between his or her faith and the values of the country he or she resides in, he or she ends up effectively ignoring some parts of his or her own faith in order to make it compatible with the values of where he or she lives in. Also, Islam is a religion that requires Muslims to live in states governed by Islamic law (or, at least, that's what many spiritual leaders here and abroad discuss often). In the Quran, it is explicitly stated that it is the Muslim's social responsibility to overthrow taqut (non-Islamic state; or, a state not governed by religious law, like pre-1979 Persia), and establish an Islamic state. Many of the spiritual leaders use verses in the Quran that mention this to conclude that, and I quote, "Islam is not just a religion one can adhere to. It is the faith society as a whole must believe in, and Muslims must live in accordance with Islamic laws." That's why they believe a TRUE Muslim can't live in a secular state. It is also said by some other spiritual leaders that it is haram for Muslims to cooperate with the "enemies of Islam" if said cooperation would result in some sort of advantage for the unbelievers (that's why many states in the past didn't actively trade with the unbelievers). And since today, many consider America and Israel to be the 'enemies of Islam', living in these countries would be considered haram by these spiritual leaders. Of course, a Muslim bent on leaving his or her homeland and immigrating wouldn't really stop because some guy told him that.

Now, you tell me: Does any of that seem compatible with the ideals of free thought, free speech, individualism, secularism, etc.?

[Calimera II]

"It is not Islam, it are the people."

No. This is Islam and some people interpret it in a different way. The Islam should deal with its own problems just like the Christians did.

[The Alma Mater]

Also, the cultural issues aren't that complicated either. The Islamic faith is incompatible with Western values.

This might be true. In several of the more reasonable debates after the Hebdo attacks, several well educated, hardworking muslims, for instance indicated that they consider a country where people are allowed to mock their loved ones, faith and god oppressive. A pretty different point of view than the the dominant western one - and pretty hard to reconcile.

Then again, the Pope made an effort.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

"It is not Islam, it are the people."

No. This is Islam and some people interpret it in a different way. The Islam should deal with its own problems just like the Christians did.

The Christians solved their problem violently or not at all.

This isn't Islam, it's terrorism, plain and simple. It stopped being Islam's own problem on a fine September morning.

[New Jordslag]

Anybody noticed Netanyahu's reaction to this? Here's what he said, straight from Wikipedia:

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said on a cabinet meeting: "We send our condolences to the Danish people, and also to the Jewish community in Denmark. Once again Jews are murdered on the soil of Europe just for being Jews. This wave of terror attacks is expected to continue, including these murderous anti-Semitic attacks. Obviously Jews deserve protection in every country, but [...] Israel is the home of every Jew ... Israel awaits you with open arms."

Good move, Benjamin. Good move.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Anybody noticed Netanyahu's reaction to this? Here's what he said, straight from Wikipedia:

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said on a cabinet meeting: "We send our condolences to the Danish people, and also to the Jewish community in Denmark. Once again Jews are murdered on the soil of Europe just for being Jews. This wave of terror attacks is expected to continue, including these murderous anti-Semitic attacks. Obviously Jews deserve protection in every country, but [...] Israel is the home of every Jew ... Israel awaits you with open arms."

Good move, Benjamin. Good move.

Again? Really?

[Romalae]

Anybody noticed Netanyahu's reaction to this? Here's what he said, straight from Wikipedia:

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said on a cabinet meeting: "We send our condolences to the Danish people, and also to the Jewish community in Denmark. Once again Jews are murdered on the soil of Europe just for being Jews. This wave of terror attacks is expected to continue, including these murderous anti-Semitic attacks. Obviously Jews deserve protection in every country, but [...] Israel is the home of every Jew ... Israel awaits you with open arms."

Good move, Benjamin. Good move.

He said this after the Paris attacks too. It's so distasteful.

[Baltenstein]

Other state leaders should call for Israelis to move out of Israel anytime something remotely serious happens there.