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Are All Men Created Equal?

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Survey Says
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Founded: Feb 09, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Survey Says » Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:26 pm

The Conez Imperium wrote:
Survey Says wrote:


If speed and strength are determined by genetics, explain.

Why I have the ability to swim faster than everyone in my school? I have no genetics whatsoever that helps me gain an advantage in swimming. I don't have big feet, I don't look streamlined, my body wasn't designed for swimming. So what factor makes me faster than everyone in my school?


Your ancestry has something say about it Some ethnicities are better disposed to swimming than others while some ethnicities are better disposed to running. This is the result of the environments in which those ethnicities evolved. You are the products of your ancestor's environment.

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Arcanda
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Arcanda » Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:29 pm

Survey Says wrote:
Arcanda wrote:Yes, all men are born equal.Maybe not equal in wealth or equal physically speaking, but legally speaking they are equal because they have the same rights.I believe that's how the sentence needs to be interpreted.


My friend, that is the only way to correctly interpret it. We are equal not because of nature and not because of God, but because the people founded our nation wrote and ratified a piece of paper that said we were. But if you decide to get rid of said piece of paper, then you and are I are no longer equal.

Equality exists only as long as the US Constitution remains in force.

I must confess that this statement is pretty right.With no government whatsoever to enforce the laws, well laws wouldn't exist.

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Survey Says
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Postby Survey Says » Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:29 pm

Sebastianbourg wrote:
Survey Says wrote:
My friend, that is the only way to correctly interpret it. We are equal not because of nature and not because of God, but because the people founded our nation wrote and ratified a piece of paper that said we were. But if you decide to get rid of said piece of paper, then you and are I are no longer equal.

Equality exists only as long as the US Constitution remains in force.

So only Americans are equal before the law, eh?


Since America is the current de facto ruler of the world and to gain her favor, all of the people of your country must be treated equally, then you are equal because of the US Constitution. Of course if your country has a similar document then you are equal because of that document but if the US was not the major power it is now and your country did not have said document then you would not be equal.

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Snakelan
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Postby Snakelan » Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:32 pm

Libacur wrote:Yes, unless you're a white christian cis male. Then you're always a racist pig who oppresses women and don't deserve equal rights.

I didn't know Tumblr played NationStates.
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The Nuclear Fist
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Postby The Nuclear Fist » Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:35 pm

Distruzio wrote:Equal before the Law, yes. Equally in the Image of God, yes.

In no other way are all men created equal.

If your god does not believe all people are equal, then yours' is a shit god.
[23:24] <Marquesan> I have the feeling that all the porn videos you watch are like...set to Primus' music, Ulysses.
Farnhamia wrote:You're getting a little too fond of the jerkoff motions.
And you touch the distant beaches with tales of brave Ulysses. . .
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The Nuclear Fist
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Postby The Nuclear Fist » Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:37 pm

Survey Says wrote:
Caninope wrote:All men are born with inherent dignity and are equal beings before God, but I hesitate to say go so far as to say that all men are "equal" in the sense that some men shall live more virtuous lives and do more good than others. But, in recognizing the first two facts, we ought say that man ought be equal before the law.

To which my ancestory, James I, would say that no man is ever equal to the King. 8)

Your ancestor was ignorant and wrong.
[23:24] <Marquesan> I have the feeling that all the porn videos you watch are like...set to Primus' music, Ulysses.
Farnhamia wrote:You're getting a little too fond of the jerkoff motions.
And you touch the distant beaches with tales of brave Ulysses. . .
THE ABSOLUTTM MADMAN ESCAPES JUSTICE ONCE MORE

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Survey Says
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Ex-Nation

Postby Survey Says » Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:39 pm

The Nuclear Fist wrote:
Survey Says wrote:To which my ancestory, James I, would say that no man is ever equal to the King. 8)

Your ancestor was ignorant and wrong.

My friend, one day you or your descendants will bow to a king It is just a matter of time

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The Nuclear Fist
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Postby The Nuclear Fist » Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:42 pm

Survey Says wrote:
The Nuclear Fist wrote:Your ancestor was ignorant and wrong.

My friend, one day you or your descendants will bow to a king It is just a matter of time

I'm sure the feudal lords of medieval times thought that they would last forever, too.

America has no history of monarchism or dictatorship, I doubt Americans would bow to some fat inbred pig fucker, and there isn't any monarchy on earth presently or in the foreseeable capable of humbling the US.

Were I one of my ancestors hundreds of years ago, still in Scotland or Russia or Germany, you might be able to make that point. At present, where the trend seems to be democracy and republicanism, I can't help but suspect my descendants will likely be led by some sort of democratic leader.
[23:24] <Marquesan> I have the feeling that all the porn videos you watch are like...set to Primus' music, Ulysses.
Farnhamia wrote:You're getting a little too fond of the jerkoff motions.
And you touch the distant beaches with tales of brave Ulysses. . .
THE ABSOLUTTM MADMAN ESCAPES JUSTICE ONCE MORE

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Nuwe Suid Afrika
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Ex-Nation

Postby Nuwe Suid Afrika » Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:53 pm

The Conez Imperium wrote:


Education is ultimately better than genetic advantages. Genetics alone does not guarantee someone's intelligence, it is the quality and amount of education that assures someone's intelligence.


Your genetics will determine if you will be able to interpret the teachings the same as another. If there was a teacher who taught at a public school, and there was a student from Group A and Group B, the student from Group A would have a better understanding of the teachings due to their genetic advantage.


Economic Left/Right: -8.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 6.56

This nation supports my real life views.
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Kaztropol
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Mother Knows Best State

Postby Kaztropol » Sat Feb 14, 2015 5:45 pm

Survey Says wrote:
Kaztropol wrote:When they say "All men are created equal", it means that there is no real thing, other than Providence, that separates people into royalty, nobility, commoner or serf status.

A rich man and a poor man, one is not inherently different from the other, they are both men, and if circumstances were different, then either could have been in the position of the other.

It is a rejection of the ideas of nobility and royalty.


I have you know that I speak as a member of said nobility as I am a descendent of the House of Stuart, the Scottish monarchs who took over England, Wales, and Ireland and parts of France.

At least our cousins still reign in Sweden.


I don't believe you. All the legitimate heirs died out long ago.

Also, aren't the current Swedish royal family all descended from Marshal Bernadotte, and thus, unrelated to any of the House of Stuart.

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United Marxist Nations
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Postby United Marxist Nations » Sat Feb 14, 2015 5:55 pm

Nuwe Suid Afrika wrote:
The Conez Imperium wrote:
Education is ultimately better than genetic advantages. Genetics alone does not guarantee someone's intelligence, it is the quality and amount of education that assures someone's intelligence.


Your genetics will determine if you will be able to interpret the teachings the same as another. If there was a teacher who taught at a public school, and there was a student from Group A and Group B, the student from Group A would have a better understanding of the teachings due to their genetic advantage.

Economic standing is actually a much bigger influence on how well one responds to education, as it often gives those in better standing more of a base when formal schooling starts. Moreover, genetics like you are talking about is on an individual, not a group basis. Of course, we all know your a virulent racist and Holocaust denier, so you don't give a fuck anyway.
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Caninope
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Postby Caninope » Sat Feb 14, 2015 5:56 pm

Arcanda wrote:
Caninope wrote:And why do they have the same rights?

Because they belong to the same race, mankind.

That was poorly worded.

Why do all men have the same rights? As in, where do the concept of rights even properly derive?
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Agritum wrote:Arg, Caninope is Captain America under disguise. Everyone knows it.
Frisivisia wrote:
Me wrote:Just don't. It'll get you a whole lot further in life if you come to realize you're not the smartest guy in the room, even if you probably are.

Because Caninope may be in that room with you.
Nightkill the Emperor wrote:Thankfully, we have you and EM to guide us to wisdom and truth, holy one. :p
Norstal wrote:What I am saying of course is that we should clone Caninope.

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Caninope
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Postby Caninope » Sat Feb 14, 2015 5:56 pm

The Conez Imperium wrote:
Caninope wrote:And why do they have the same rights?


Because we theoretically abolished slavery and dictated that everyone man was to be equal under God.

That only said that we were equal.

Why do we even have rights?
I'm the Pope
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Türkçe öğreniyorum ama zorluk var.
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Agritum wrote:Arg, Caninope is Captain America under disguise. Everyone knows it.
Frisivisia wrote:
Me wrote:Just don't. It'll get you a whole lot further in life if you come to realize you're not the smartest guy in the room, even if you probably are.

Because Caninope may be in that room with you.
Nightkill the Emperor wrote:Thankfully, we have you and EM to guide us to wisdom and truth, holy one. :p
Norstal wrote:What I am saying of course is that we should clone Caninope.

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Russels Orbiting Teapot
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Founded: Jan 20, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Russels Orbiting Teapot » Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:15 pm

Caninope wrote:That only said that we were equal.

Why do we even have rights?


Because we generally all decided that certain things should be left up to individual determination. And in order to not be hypocrites, we have defined those things in broad terms that apply to everyone, regardless of the preferences of the people in power at the moment.

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Caninope
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Ex-Nation

Postby Caninope » Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:28 pm

Russels Orbiting Teapot wrote:
Caninope wrote:That only said that we were equal.

Why do we even have rights?


Because we generally all decided that certain things should be left up to individual determination. And in order to not be hypocrites, we have defined those things in broad terms that apply to everyone, regardless of the preferences of the people in power at the moment.

So rights are entirely social constructed?
I'm the Pope
Secretly CIA interns stomping out negative views of the US
Türkçe öğreniyorum ama zorluk var.
Winner, Silver Medal for Debating
Co-Winner, Bronze Medal for Posting
Co-Winner, Zooke Goodwill Award

Agritum wrote:Arg, Caninope is Captain America under disguise. Everyone knows it.
Frisivisia wrote:
Me wrote:Just don't. It'll get you a whole lot further in life if you come to realize you're not the smartest guy in the room, even if you probably are.

Because Caninope may be in that room with you.
Nightkill the Emperor wrote:Thankfully, we have you and EM to guide us to wisdom and truth, holy one. :p
Norstal wrote:What I am saying of course is that we should clone Caninope.

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The New Sea Territory
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Anarchy

Postby The New Sea Territory » Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:31 pm

Snakelan wrote:
Libacur wrote:Yes, unless you're a white christian cis male. Then you're always a racist pig who oppresses women and don't deserve equal rights.

I didn't know Tumblr played NationStates.


It doesn't, anywhere outside of a fascist's mind.
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The New Sea Territory
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Anarchy

Postby The New Sea Territory » Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:32 pm

Caninope wrote:
Russels Orbiting Teapot wrote:
Because we generally all decided that certain things should be left up to individual determination. And in order to not be hypocrites, we have defined those things in broad terms that apply to everyone, regardless of the preferences of the people in power at the moment.

So rights are entirely social constructed?


...this is debatable?
Bisexual
Guitarist

I like metal, neofolk, conlangs,
Tarkovsky, MtG,
Metro 2033, philosophy,
RC Cola, poetry.

Studied Latin (5 years).

Studying Russian (2 years), starting Ancient Greek.

I also like Ta'agra (Khajiit), Anglish,
other Slavic and ancient Germanic languages.
F C K ✩
Marsch der Antifaschisten
✩ N Z S
"Christianity had brutally planted the poisoned blade in the healthy, quivering flesh of all humanity; it had goaded a cold wave
of darkness with mystically brutal fury to dim the serene and festive exultation of the dionysian spirit of our pagan ancestors."
-Renzo Novatore, Verso il Nulla Creatore

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Imyoji
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Imyoji » Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:34 pm

We are all equals, but most assuredly we are not identical in most traits.
Selflessness, Compassion, Practicality

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Caninope
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Ex-Nation

Postby Caninope » Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:34 pm

The New Sea Territory wrote:
Caninope wrote:So rights are entirely social constructed?


...this is debatable?

Yes.

However, it's also axiomatic.
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Co-Winner, Zooke Goodwill Award

Agritum wrote:Arg, Caninope is Captain America under disguise. Everyone knows it.
Frisivisia wrote:
Me wrote:Just don't. It'll get you a whole lot further in life if you come to realize you're not the smartest guy in the room, even if you probably are.

Because Caninope may be in that room with you.
Nightkill the Emperor wrote:Thankfully, we have you and EM to guide us to wisdom and truth, holy one. :p
Norstal wrote:What I am saying of course is that we should clone Caninope.

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Nuwe Suid Afrika
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Ex-Nation

Postby Nuwe Suid Afrika » Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:46 pm

United Marxist Nations wrote:
Nuwe Suid Afrika wrote:
Your genetics will determine if you will be able to interpret the teachings the same as another. If there was a teacher who taught at a public school, and there was a student from Group A and Group B, the student from Group A would have a better understanding of the teachings due to their genetic advantage.

Economic standing is actually a much bigger influence on how well one responds to education, as it often gives those in better standing more of a base when formal schooling starts.


Economic standing has no effect on how you interpret and use your education. However, it can interpret the education that you actually get.

Moreover, genetics like you are talking about is on an individual, not a group basis.


I don't think you saw the Group A Group B scenario that I provided earlier. I'll paste it here.

But what if Group A is faster, stronger, more intelligent, and more socially capable than Group B? The aspects that define Group A and Group B come from when they were born, their genetics. Although their development in life could have had an effect on these factors, their genetics overall set a standard on how they would grow up.

Does that mean that Group A and Group B is equal? Would Group A not be better than Group B?


Of course, we all know your a virulent racist and Holocaust denier, so you don't give a fuck anyway.

Of course, this needs to be brought up in every argument that some one gets upset with my opinions.


Economic Left/Right: -8.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 6.56

This nation supports my real life views.
Pro:
Stalinism, Authoritarianism, National Bolshevism, Palestine,

Anti:
Liberalism, Marxism, Anarchism, Israel, Zionism, LGBTBBQABC Rights
If you still believe the holocaust actually happened, you need to see this.

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Geilinor
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Geilinor » Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:46 pm

Olthar wrote:
The Conez Imperium wrote:
Member of the Humanist Union
Economic Left/Right: -1.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.41

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United Marxist Nations
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Founded: Dec 02, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby United Marxist Nations » Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:51 pm

Nuwe Suid Afrika wrote:
United Marxist Nations wrote:Economic standing is actually a much bigger influence on how well one responds to education, as it often gives those in better standing more of a base when formal schooling starts.


Economic standing has no effect on how you interpret and use your education. However, it can interpret the education that you actually get.

Moreover, genetics like you are talking about is on an individual, not a group basis.


I don't think you saw the Group A Group B scenario that I provided earlier. I'll paste it here.

But what if Group A is faster, stronger, more intelligent, and more socially capable than Group B? The aspects that define Group A and Group B come from when they were born, their genetics. Although their development in life could have had an effect on these factors, their genetics overall set a standard on how they would grow up.

Does that mean that Group A and Group B is equal? Would Group A not be better than Group B?


Of course, we all know your a virulent racist and Holocaust denier, so you don't give a fuck anyway.

Of course, this needs to be brought up in every argument that some one gets upset with my opinions.

1) People with better economic circumstances generally perform better in formal education settings and generally live in places with better education.

2) No such situation of those groups exists, you're just trying to inject racism, the "groups" are obviously supposed to represent race. But race has historically had no impact on the development of groups, and all societies have had an underclass.
The Kievan People wrote: United Marxist Nations: A prayer for every soul, a plan for every economy and a waifu for every man. Solid.

Eastern Orthodox Catechumen. Religious communitarian with Sorelian, Marxist, and Traditionalist influences. Sympathies toward Sunni Islam. All flags/avatars are chosen for aesthetic or humor purposes only
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.
St. John Chrysostom wrote:A comprehended God is no God.

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Nuwe Suid Afrika
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Founded: Oct 21, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Nuwe Suid Afrika » Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:54 pm

United Marxist Nations wrote:1) People with better economic circumstances generally perform better in formal education settings and generally live in places with better education.


That's because they're not pushing themselves hard enough to do good, and then they proceed to blame their upbringing and their environment on their education

2) No such situation of those groups exists, you're just trying to inject racism, the "groups" are obviously supposed to represent race. But race has historically had no impact on the development of groups, and all societies have had an underclass.


I never injected racism. I was suggesting groups of hand-picked people, or perhaps family versus family.

Assumptions are never good.


Economic Left/Right: -8.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 6.56

This nation supports my real life views.
Pro:
Stalinism, Authoritarianism, National Bolshevism, Palestine,

Anti:
Liberalism, Marxism, Anarchism, Israel, Zionism, LGBTBBQABC Rights
If you still believe the holocaust actually happened, you need to see this.

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United Marxist Nations
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Founded: Dec 02, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby United Marxist Nations » Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:57 pm

Nuwe Suid Afrika wrote:
United Marxist Nations wrote:1) People with better economic circumstances generally perform better in formal education settings and generally live in places with better education.


That's because they're not pushing themselves hard enough to do good, and then they proceed to blame their upbringing and their environment on their education

2) No such situation of those groups exists, you're just trying to inject racism, the "groups" are obviously supposed to represent race. But race has historically had no impact on the development of groups, and all societies have had an underclass.


I never injected racism. I was suggesting groups of hand-picked people, or perhaps family versus family.

Assumptions are never good.

1) Or, as the other person said, there is hopelessly inadequate education infrastructure in their area, or they had no ability for education; take, for instance, countries where child-labor is common; these children are unable to get any education at all.

2) You don't get to hand-pick groups in the real world, so the example is silly.
The Kievan People wrote: United Marxist Nations: A prayer for every soul, a plan for every economy and a waifu for every man. Solid.

Eastern Orthodox Catechumen. Religious communitarian with Sorelian, Marxist, and Traditionalist influences. Sympathies toward Sunni Islam. All flags/avatars are chosen for aesthetic or humor purposes only
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.
St. John Chrysostom wrote:A comprehended God is no God.

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Distruzio
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Ex-Nation

Postby Distruzio » Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:57 pm

The Nuclear Fist wrote:
Distruzio wrote:Equal before the Law, yes. Equally in the Image of God, yes.

In no other way are all men created equal.

If your god does not believe all people are equal, then yours' is a shit god.


.... oh I'm sorry. Were you confused by the second sentence?

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Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance.

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