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Are All Men Created Equal?

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Partybus
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Postby Partybus » Sat Feb 14, 2015 8:10 am

Hentar wrote:Humans are not created equal, but we can become equal through socialism.


And gun ownership *nod nod*

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Aelex
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Postby Aelex » Sat Feb 14, 2015 8:12 am

The original Déclaration des droits de l'homme et du citoyen. (Declaration of the Human and citizen's rights)
Image

Yep, you can read "Tout les hommes naissent et demeurent libres et égaux en droits" (Men are born and remain free and equal in rights.)
So, yes. We are all created equal.
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Fanosolia
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Postby Fanosolia » Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:39 am

In terms of rights, yes. Or at least that how it should be. :)
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United Russian Soviet States
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Postby United Russian Soviet States » Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:10 am

They are all created equal before God.
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Liberty and Linguistics
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Postby Liberty and Linguistics » Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:29 am

Aelex wrote:The original Déclaration des droits de l'homme et du citoyen. (Declaration of the Human and citizen's rights)

Yep, you can read "Tout les hommes naissent et demeurent libres et égaux en droits" (Men are born and remain free and equal in rights.)
So, yes. We are all created equal.


If you've actually read that document, you'd know that document only guaranteed rights to French men. So, that archaic French document is hardly in support of equal rights for all.
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Kelinfort
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Postby Kelinfort » Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:41 am

Law makes sapients equal. Anything less is against the freedom of the person.

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Aelex
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Postby Aelex » Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:45 am

Liberty and Linguistics wrote:If you've actually read that document, you'd know that document only guaranteed rights to French men. So, that archaic French document is hardly in support of equal rights for all.

No. It guaranteed rights for everyone (droits de l'homme/human's rights) and for the french men in particular (droits du citoyens/citizen's rights).
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Auth
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Postby Auth » Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:55 am

Noone has any rights. It is a concept divorced from reality. If they are not held by all are they rights? If some do not hold them as rights are they rights?

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United Marxist Nations
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Postby United Marxist Nations » Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:43 am

It means equal under the law, not in ability or any other such thing.
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Nord Amour
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Postby Nord Amour » Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:12 pm

Auth wrote:Noone has any rights. It is a concept divorced from reality. If they are not held by all are they rights? If some do not hold them as rights are they rights?


The Declaration and Constitution address that very premise. It is assumed that people will have differing ideas of freedom, and so the Constitution (rather than attempt to impose an idea of freedom) prohibits trampling on the rights of others.

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Margno
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Postby Margno » Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:21 pm

Oh look, a racialist.
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Socialist Tera
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Postby Socialist Tera » Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:26 pm

United Marxist Nations wrote:It means equal under the law, not in ability or any other such thing.

Couldn't of said it better myself.
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Libacur
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Postby Libacur » Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:29 pm

Yes, unless you're a white christian cis male. Then you're always a racist pig who oppresses women and don't deserve equal rights.
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Aelex
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Postby Aelex » Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:54 pm

Libacur wrote:Yes, unless you're a white christian cis male. Then you're always a racist pig who oppresses women and don't deserve equal rights.

I'm a white christian cis male. And I'm feminist. U mad bro?
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Libacur
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Postby Libacur » Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:10 pm

Aelex wrote:
Libacur wrote:Yes, unless you're a white christian cis male. Then you're always a racist pig who oppresses women and don't deserve equal rights.

I'm a white christian cis male. And I'm feminist. U mad bro?

Racist pig stawp opresung me!!!
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Robert Magoo
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Postby Robert Magoo » Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:12 pm

The Conez Imperium wrote:
Shilya wrote:We were born equal, not idendical.
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Nuwe Suid Afrika
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Postby Nuwe Suid Afrika » Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:33 pm

We are not all equal, nor we will ever be. We are born differently by different parents, with different race, and sex. We have different genetics which will help define our physique and intelligence in the future. Some of us may have physical, or even mental defects at birth. As we are raised, we will form different moral standards, and different views on life. Some of us will choose to obey the law, or break it. We will choose to succeed, or fail. In the end, we are not all equal.


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Caninope
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Postby Caninope » Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:44 pm

All men are born with inherent dignity and are equal beings before God, but I hesitate to say go so far as to say that all men are "equal" in the sense that some men shall live more virtuous lives and do more good than others. But, in recognizing the first two facts, we ought say that man ought be equal before the law.
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Northwest Slobovia
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Postby Northwest Slobovia » Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:52 pm

Republic of Coldwater wrote:
West Aurelia wrote:
They are born equal before the law.

But are they born equal in other aspects, not just the law. Sure, they will be equally treated before the law, but how is it possible for people to be born equally in non-law aspects. "All men were created equal" has been a quote for people to argue that people were born equal.

Why the pettifoggery? The document you're complaining about seems pretty clear to mean equal in rights:
A bunch of dead white men wrote:We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

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Imperium Sidhicum
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Postby Imperium Sidhicum » Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:59 pm

Equal under law, but not in inherent ability or acquired potential.
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Greater fascist socialist napoli
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Postby Greater fascist socialist napoli » Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:04 pm

i think we are all equal and no group is better than another, but some people can be better at other things, but not all things. so yes, all men are created equally.

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Nuwe Suid Afrika
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Postby Nuwe Suid Afrika » Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:11 pm

Greater fascist socialist napoli wrote:i think we are all equal and no group is better than another, but some people can be better at other things, but not all things. so yes, all men are created equally.


But what if Group A is faster, stronger, more intelligent, and more socially capable than Group B? The aspects that define Group A and Group B come from when they were born, their genetics. Although their development in life could have had an effect on these factors, their genetics overall set a standard on how they would grow up.

Does that mean that Group A and Group B is equal? Would Group A not be better than Group B?


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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:18 pm

Congratulations OP you have reached the puberty of political thought.
I'm a liberal/socialist/social democrat/syndicalist/corporatist/I don't even know anymore.

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The Conez Imperium
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Postby The Conez Imperium » Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:18 pm

Nuwe Suid Afrika wrote:
Greater fascist socialist napoli wrote:i think we are all equal and no group is better than another, but some people can be better at other things, but not all things. so yes, all men are created equally.


But what if Group A is faster, stronger, more intelligent, and more socially capable than Group B? The aspects that define Group A and Group B come from when they were born, their genetics. Although their development in life could have had an effect on these factors, their genetics overall set a standard on how they would grow up.

Does that mean that Group A and Group B is equal? Would Group A not be better than Group B?


Genetics pales in comparison to education. We can educate Group B to be just as intelligent, stronger and faster than Group A
Last edited by The Conez Imperium on Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nuwe Suid Afrika
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Postby Nuwe Suid Afrika » Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:23 pm

The Conez Imperium wrote:Genetics pales in comparison to education.


Our genetics influence our intelligence.

https://student.societyforscience.org/article/iq-genes
http://news.sciencemag.org/biology/2014 ... -do-school
http://iq-test.learninginfo.org/iq03.htm

We can educate Group B to be just as intelligent, stronger and faster than Group A


But they will never have been created or born that way.
Last edited by Nuwe Suid Afrika on Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Economic Left/Right: -8.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 6.56

This nation supports my real life views.
Pro:
Stalinism, Authoritarianism, National Bolshevism, Palestine,

Anti:
Liberalism, Marxism, Anarchism, Israel, Zionism, LGBTBBQABC Rights
If you still believe the holocaust actually happened, you need to see this.

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