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Cinema Regulation

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Ainin
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Postby Ainin » Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:27 am

If you want to watch movies in silence, buy a projector and a tablecloth and project it yourself. When you buy a movie ticket, you're buying a service as-is. If the cinema operator doesn't care about sound in his theatre, why should you? It's his property, and he has no obligation to make it perfect (which nobody except you cares about by the way).

And criminalising being noisy in a cinema is unconstitutional under the doctrine of peace, order and good government, because a law banning making sounds in a theatre does none of the three. It's not conductive to public peace, it doesn't maintain public order, and it's sure as hell not good governance to make coughing illegal.
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Dyakovo
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Postby Dyakovo » Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:32 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:I firmly believe that the movies are a sacred art. They truly are a highest form of art. Without movies, our lives would be crushing, empty, and cold.

With that said, when I pay to watch a movie in a theatre, I'm not just paying for the benefit to be there... I'm paying for the complete experience. To truly appreciate the big screen, you have to fully give yourself over to the movie... remove yourself from all distractions and to try and really feel and connect with what you're seeing and hearing.

Yet out of the seven out of ten times I've gone to the movies in the past few months, I've always been unpleasantly disturbed at some point: bawling children, cell phone business calls, chit-chat next to me, people walking into the theatre late and then talking...

When you walk into a church, a cemetery, or a library... there is a firm expectation of silence, solemnity, and respect. It is a code of honour to respect the sacred values that these institutions represent. The film theatre, is one such institution, yet for some reason it doesn't often command the same deference or the same respect.

People are truly inconsiderate when they text away, talk loudly, or bring screaming children into these hallowed grounds. Those who truly appreciate the movies have paid good money to experience a part of their soul and a vision of true artistry. It is unfair that others should get to carelessly, thoughtlessly, and negligently (or worse, intentionally) disrupt this experience.

There needs to be consequences to deter such behaviour.

I believe it is time for the government and the theatres to work together to protect the rights of movie-goers.

So NSG, what should we do about this problem?

_____

Since there is apparently no common law duty of care towards fellow movie-goers (I couldn't find a Canadian case even in nuisance where a private action succeeded related to modern movie theatres), we should create a statutory duty of care. From this moment on... ALL movie-goers owe each other a statutory duty of care to NOT disrupt the film-going experience. If anyone breaches this, the statute should allow a private right of action with high punitive damage awards.

However, it can be expensive or time-consuming for individual plaintiffs to bring forward these types of cases, so clearly... we can't leave it all to civil liability and private suits.

We need broad enforcement powers.

Movie theatres are after all, mostly privately owned and a very non-intrusive way for the government to deal with this is to encourage and incentivize private actors to enforce this policy. I suggest tax credits, retirement benefits, and other benefits packages to cinemas that take extra action to lay down and enforce internal regulations (within reason) to protect movie-goers from getting interfered with. I expect this will have all the threatres throughout the country implementing changes on their own volition in a race to get these benefits and protect the sacred art.

Finally, there should be state-imposed consequences. In the event that a private cinema has lax enforcement mechanisms and no one is willing to launch a private right of action... there will be a regime of regulatory and criminal penalties. The Criminal Code should be amended to include a new offence: Disturbance of the Sacred Peace (the penalty I suggest, should be up to 100,000 Canadian Dollars and 14 months of imprisonment). However, the elements in a Criminal Code provision can be hard to enforce because they often require proof of intention, which is why there should be a counterpart in the non-criminal regulations imposing regulatory fines (I would suggest, up to several thousand Canadian dollars). With this in place, a concerned citizen doesn't have to burden himself with a lawsuit or rely on the goodwill of the guardians of the cinema to enforce his rights, he can simply exit the cinema and call the relevant authorities.

I believe this will solve the problem. Its a very carefully designed three pronged attempt to solve the problem. To reiterate: 1) a statutory duty of care in the cinemas to be enforced by private lawsuits 2) a benefit package to encourage self-policing in the cinemas 3) Criminal and regulatory penalties against offenders.
____

So this is my suggestion.

However, I understand there are different points of view and different solutions that others could suggest.

What do you think?

Have you ever been interrupted while in a theatre?1 Do you think this is a serious problem?2 What do you suggest we do about it?3

What should be done about this problem NSG?

1: Not in any significant way, no.
2: No, like pretty much everything you whinge about, this is a non-issue.
3: Absolutely nothing. If it really bothers you, you can already complain to an usher.


Infected Mushroom wrote:
Prezelly wrote:It wouldn't, you could do that, but others in the theater would be upset and ask to remove you, given enough support they could. Its not really a breach of contract, the theater cant be responsible for what people do when they watch the movie


It's not just a contract to let you see the movie. It's also a contract to provide a certain atmosphere for you to be able to enjoy the movie.

No, it isn't.
Last edited by Dyakovo on Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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United Kingdom of Kent
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Postby United Kingdom of Kent » Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:48 am

Yes everyone's been interrupted at the pictures once or twice, but its only a film in my eyes, hardly something worth imposing laws upon. They are not a sacred art to me and as I remember my life is not empty, crushing or cold without them. Its like you've never heard of a book or television.

Sorry but I really don't see the pictures in the same light as a church, cemetery or even a library. Yes they should be a rough understanding that you don't talk during the film and try to keep children well behaved, but its only the pictures at the end of the day. Any actions taken against people breaking these should only be taken by the company as occurs now, such as asking the person to leave or banning them to returning to watch another film if removed multiple times. What your proposing is a waste of time and money.
Last edited by United Kingdom of Kent on Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:55 am

Ainin wrote:If you want to watch movies in silence, buy a projector and a tablecloth and project it yourself. When you buy a movie ticket, you're buying a service as-is. If the cinema operator doesn't care about sound in his theatre, why should you? It's his property, and he has no obligation to make it perfect (which nobody except you cares about by the way).

And criminalising being noisy in a cinema is unconstitutional under the doctrine of peace, order and good government, because a law banning making sounds in a theatre does none of the three. It's not conductive to public peace, it doesn't maintain public order, and it's sure as hell not good governance to make coughing illegal.


i don't think it's going to be declared unconstitutional, not on those grounds anyhow. It can easily be framed and justified through peace, order, and good government (its a very broad scope).

You'll find that criminalising most things is fine so long as there are enough procedural safeguards for the rights of the accused.

The law wouldn't impose a duty of care (though it offers rewards) for property owners to regulate their property a specific way (though obviously they can't abet regulatory/criminal offences). The duty of care is on the movie-goer.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:07 am

Lordieth wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
I don't see it as the government encroaching (ex putting additional costs on the cinemas), in fact, it would reward certain actions by cinema-owners but it actually doesn't have the power under this regime to fine or imprison cinema owners for not taking the steps.

So this would be different from some variants of environmental legislation. In that area, companies can be fined and in some cases imprisoned for violating environmental laws and regulations. Here, the regulation and penalties are against the consumers (those who misbehave). Only a carrot (no stick) is used with respect to the private actors. They are rewarded for taking certain steps, but not otherwise penalised.

The problem with leaving it to the private actors alone (leaving it to the cinemas) is that there are severe limits within the law (unless it is changed) as to what they can actually do.

For example, if they try to physically remove a movie-goer without calling the authorities, that could lead to a lawsuit in battery or assault. If they lay down rules that are too stringent, they may overstep what is allowed by the licensing regime or step unto Charter rights territory.

A much more fail-safe approach is to limit the role of the cinema as indirect enforcers. They would be encouraged to warn viewers about the new laws and encouraged to report offenders while doing non-intrusive things to enforce the regulations, but they themselves would play a secondary role to the government with respect to direct enforcement.

This way, the theatre owners wouldn't expose themselves to potential litigation.


I do understand your argument, and the limitations of what private entities can and cannot enforce, however I think the sad irony is, is that increasing powers that allows cinemas to impose tougher actions on patrons could lead to an increase in disturbances, or at the very least a reluctance for cinema goers to attend in fear of an over-zealous cinema imposing fines on people for an accidental cough or sneeze.

I'm all for quieter cinemas, but I'm not sure this is the best way to deal with it.


I see...

what would you suggest we do about it?
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Neo ORB
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Postby Neo ORB » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:26 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:I firmly believe that the movies are a sacred art. They truly are a highest form of art. Without movies, our lives would be crushing, empty, and cold.

With that said, when I pay to watch a movie in a theatre, I'm not just paying for the benefit to be there... I'm paying for the complete experience. To truly appreciate the big screen, you have to fully give yourself over to the movie... remove yourself from all distractions and to try and really feel and connect with what you're seeing and hearing.

Yet out of the seven out of ten times I've gone to the movies in the past few months, I've always been unpleasantly disturbed at some point: bawling children, cell phone business calls, chit-chat next to me, people walking into the theatre late and then talking...

When you walk into a church, a cemetery, or a library... there is a firm expectation of silence, solemnity, and respect. It is a code of honour to respect the sacred values that these institutions represent. The film theatre, is one such institution, yet for some reason it doesn't often command the same deference or the same respect.

People are truly inconsiderate when they text away, talk loudly, or bring screaming children into these hallowed grounds. Those who truly appreciate the movies have paid good money to experience a part of their soul and a vision of true artistry. It is unfair that others should get to carelessly, thoughtlessly, and negligently (or worse, intentionally) disrupt this experience.

There needs to be consequences to deter such behaviour.

I believe it is time for the government and the theatres to work together to protect the rights of movie-goers.

So NSG, what should we do about this problem?

_____

Since there is apparently no common law duty of care towards fellow movie-goers (I couldn't find a Canadian case even in nuisance where a private action succeeded related to modern movie theatres), we should create a statutory duty of care. From this moment on... ALL movie-goers owe each other a statutory duty of care to NOT disrupt the film-going experience. If anyone breaches this, the statute should allow a private right of action with high punitive damage awards.

However, it can be expensive or time-consuming for individual plaintiffs to bring forward these types of cases, so clearly... we can't leave it all to civil liability and private suits.

We need broad enforcement powers.

Movie theatres are after all, mostly privately owned and a very non-intrusive way for the government to deal with this is to encourage and incentivize private actors to enforce this policy. I suggest tax credits, retirement benefits, and other benefits packages to cinemas that take extra action to lay down and enforce internal regulations (within reason) to protect movie-goers from getting interfered with. I expect this will have all the threatres throughout the country implementing changes on their own volition in a race to get these benefits and protect the sacred art.

Finally, there should be state-imposed consequences. In the event that a private cinema has lax enforcement mechanisms and no one is willing to launch a private right of action... there will be a regime of regulatory and criminal penalties. The Criminal Code should be amended to include a new offence: Disturbance of the Sacred Peace (the penalty I suggest, should be up to 100,000 Canadian Dollars and 14 months of imprisonment). However, the elements in a Criminal Code provision can be hard to enforce because they often require proof of intention, which is why there should be a counterpart in the non-criminal regulations imposing regulatory fines (I would suggest, up to several thousand Canadian dollars). With this in place, a concerned citizen doesn't have to burden himself with a lawsuit or rely on the goodwill of the guardians of the cinema to enforce his rights, he can simply exit the cinema and call the relevant authorities.

I believe this will solve the problem. Its a very carefully designed three pronged attempt to solve the problem. To reiterate: 1) a statutory duty of care in the cinemas to be enforced by private lawsuits 2) a benefit package to encourage self-policing in the cinemas 3) Criminal and regulatory penalties against offenders.
____

So this is my suggestion.

However, I understand there are different points of view and different solutions that others could suggest.

What do you think?

Have you ever been interrupted while in a theatre? Do you think this is a serious problem? What do you suggest we do about it?

What should be done about this problem NSG?



By your system if it was enacted, a child crying in a theater, there parents would have to pay $100k fine?
Who the (F-Bomb) Has $100K dollars lieing around? if i had to pay that kind of incentive for every time i laughed in my sadistic manner at the potrale of a character, their deaths or comedic moments, i would be so broke i would have had to commit suicide.

So, heres a very simple solution to your problem, you don't need heavy, unrealistic and lets be honest absolutely moronic solutions, sending innocent people to jail for having a good time, abet it loudly. Or thousand dollar fines.

Its called going to the theater when it opens, be that at 10am or Noon, see the first screening because for all the dozens of times i've gone, i've never once had a problem, and the simple reason why. Was because the population density of that theater show, was 1-8 people... the same people who chose to go earlier to avoid the same problems you rage about.
The other reason is that most working class people, work during 9-5 shifts... go figure.

and yes, this is meant to be somewhat sarcastic... grow up people are loud, maybe disrespectful to the movie going experience of others, but allowing yourself to get caught up and angry, is even worse, be an adult and put up with it.
That's your job, now stop fretting on whats not in your control, you'll live longer and be happier.
Last edited by Neo ORB on Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
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The Nihilistic view
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Postby The Nihilistic view » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:27 am

Most stupid thing I have heard all week. What's next? Imprisonment for making noise whilst turning the pages of a newspaper on a train? Eating a crisp? Christ.
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New Werpland
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Postby New Werpland » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:40 am

This is something the free market can deal with, not the government.

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Dyakovo
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Postby Dyakovo » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:50 am

The Nihilistic view wrote:Most stupid thing I have heard all week. What's next? Imprisonment for making noise whilst turning the pages of a newspaper on a train? Eating a crisp? Christ.

Oh, come on... It's no worse than his suggestion that dogs should be banned...
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Postby Bezkoshtovnya » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:55 am

We are advocating making noise or other distractions in a movie theater to be criminal now? AND punishable by up to $100,000?

Are we going to arrest dog owners for having their pets bark at night too? Or fine students and their families for being disruptive in university or other schools?

Most absurd thing I have read in a while.
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Postby New Frenco Empire » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:57 am

Bezkoshtovnya wrote:We are advocating making noise or other distractions in a movie theater to be criminal now? AND punishable by up to $100,000?

Are we going to arrest dog owners for having their pets bark at night too? Or fine students and their families for being disruptive in university or other schools?

Most absurd thing I have read in a while.

Might want to take back the dog bit. IM supports puppy genocide because a dog chased him once or something.
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Bezkoshtovnya
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Postby Bezkoshtovnya » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:58 am

New Frenco Empire wrote:
Bezkoshtovnya wrote:We are advocating making noise or other distractions in a movie theater to be criminal now? AND punishable by up to $100,000?

Are we going to arrest dog owners for having their pets bark at night too? Or fine students and their families for being disruptive in university or other schools?

Most absurd thing I have read in a while.

Might want to take back the dog bit. IM supports puppy genocide because a dog chased him once or something.

God dammit I forgot about that.
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Purpelia
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Postby Purpelia » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:59 am

I think that there should be laws in place to ensure people who make disturbances are fined or banned from the movie theater. It's as simple as that.
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Bezkoshtovnya
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Postby Bezkoshtovnya » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:03 pm

Purpelia wrote:I think that there should be laws in place to ensure people who make disturbances are fined or banned from the movie theater. It's as simple as that.

And the contemporary solution of simply having the usher escort them out is not good enough, why? Why do fines and such other things need to be brought into it?
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Postby Butballs » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:03 pm

Regulation is censorship, and we're censored quite enough already.
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Need a Name
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Postby Need a Name » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:05 pm

I hate to be the one who pulls this card but, aren't there starving kids we should worry about?
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Postby Bezkoshtovnya » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:06 pm

Need a name wrote:I hate to be the one who pulls this card but, aren't there starving kids we should worry about?

You do not even have to pull that particular card out. There are about a thousand things more noteworthy to deal with before this one. It is at the bottom of a very, very large deck of cards.
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The Nihilistic view
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Postby The Nihilistic view » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:07 pm

Dyakovo wrote:
The Nihilistic view wrote:Most stupid thing I have heard all week. What's next? Imprisonment for making noise whilst turning the pages of a newspaper on a train? Eating a crisp? Christ.

Oh, come on... It's no worse than his suggestion that dogs should be banned...


Not since July last year.
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New Frenco Empire
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Postby New Frenco Empire » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:08 pm

Purpelia wrote:I think that there should be laws in place to ensure people who make disturbances are fined or banned from the movie theater. It's as simple as that.

Complain about the free market fairy all you want, but this is an instance where private entities can handle it.
Butballs wrote:Regulation is censorship, and we're censored quite enough already.

No, kicking someone out of the theater for being disruptive is not "censorship".
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Dyakovo
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Postby Dyakovo » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:12 pm

Bezkoshtovnya wrote:
Purpelia wrote:I think that there should be laws in place to ensure people who make disturbances are fined or banned from the movie theater. It's as simple as that.

And the contemporary solution of simply having the usher escort them out is not good enough, why? Why do fines and such other things need to be brought into it?

They don't.
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:23 pm

Ifreann was right. Just get a fucking blog.
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Romalae
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Postby Romalae » Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:32 pm

If you have a problem with noise pollution at cinemas and cannot deal with it, I have a suggestion for you: Wait until the movie has already been showing at the theater for about a month or so, that way most of the traffic will have died down and the theater shouldn't have nearly as many moviegoers.

That, or just wait until it comes out and watch it at home.
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Other: irreligious, white, male

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Scomagia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13469
Founded: Apr 14, 2009
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Scomagia » Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:12 pm

Fines for being an ass? Movies being "the highest form of art"?

Yep, this is a Kefka thread.
"The Universe has as many different centers as there are living beings in it. Each of us is the center of the Universe, and that Universe is shattered when they hiss at you, 'You are under arrest.'"-Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"

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Blakullar
Senator
 
Posts: 4489
Founded: Sep 07, 2012
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Blakullar » Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:17 pm

I have never had any massive problems in the cinema regarding background noise where I live, being too engrossed in the film to bother with it. I can say that, based on my personal experiences, cinemas don't need to be regulated.

Can't say much for everybody else, but then without a sizeable sample, who can without being subjective?


Butballs wrote:Regulation is censorship, and we're censored quite enough already.

LOL - I can tell you live in a liberal society where free speech is entrenched in law just by reading this post. Spend a year or two living in somewhere like Russia or China, then come back and try to make that statement without bursting into laughter.
Last edited by Blakullar on Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Beldonia
Senator
 
Posts: 3827
Founded: Jan 07, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Beldonia » Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:18 pm

People ARE disruptive in churches, cemeteries and libraries. It's the same as with movie theaters. And it's fine. Surely, you can manage.

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