Second Amendment Repeal / Gun Control

[Fartsniffage]

And what about them? If you're concern the numbers might go down by 35, then 34, perhaps they will as long as no genuine reform comes along. But then you'd probably have to wait until the 28th Amendment (if and when) it passes, then real reforms can actually pass for once.

I find that "fact" hard to believe, considering the FBI states that there were ~12,000 total gun homicides in 2011, while the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration says there were ~29,000 fatal car crashes in the same year.

And thus, the truth comes out.

What truth? Comparing car deaths to gun deaths in the US is completely idiotic.

For one, banning guns wouldn't change all that much in terms of US society. Banning cars would mean that the US economy would grind to a halt. For two, I would love to see a comparison of car deaths versus gun deaths based on hours used rather than as a total figure. I'm willing to bet that the number of cars deaths per hours used would be minuscule compared to gun deaths per hours used.

It's a disingenuous and shitty argument.

[United Prefectures of Appia]

LOL sorry to bust your bubbles, but cars no longer kill more people than guns. 14 states have guns deaths surpassing those from cars. It's a fact. And besides, I'm not advocating bans, I'm advocating reforms, there's a big difference.

Do you have any source for these claims?

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=gun+surpasses+traffic+accidents&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Anyways, your proposed "reforms" sound a lot like outright bans, so pardon me for getting them confused.

How so? Please do explain.

That's hilarious, because until 1977 or so, the NRA supported gun control.

Yeah until 1977 just before extreme right-wing members overthrew the leadership in a coup-de-tat overnight. Since then, the NRA now has made two Union soldiers from the American Civil War roll in their graves.

[Sevvania]

For one, banning guns wouldn't change all that much in terms of US society.

So you're saying it would have little or no effect on the rates of violent crime?

[Washington Resistance Army]

And thus, the truth comes out.

For one, banning guns wouldn't change all that much in terms of US society.

Yes it would, it would also be entirely impossible.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

And thus, the truth comes out.

What truth? Comparing car deaths to gun deaths in the US is completely idiotic.

For one, banning guns wouldn't change all that much in terms of US society. Banning cars would mean that the US economy would grind to a halt. For two, I would love to see a comparison of car deaths versus gun deaths based on hours used rather than as a total figure. I'm willing to bet that the number of cars deaths per hours used would be minuscule compared to gun deaths per hours used.

It's a disingenuous and shitty argument.

*Banning guns wouldn't lead to an outrage*
*People would still be able to effectively defend themselves against armed criminals without a gun*
*Hunters will use bows instead of guns*
*Somehow, despite the overall numbers being greater for cars, guns cause more deaths whenever somebody uses one*
*As the time spent with a gun increases, the probability of going on a killing spree approaches one*

[Sevvania]

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=gun+surpasses+traffic+accidents&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

First result: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.1223721
"By 2015, shootings are likely to surpass car crashes as one of the leading causes of non-medical deaths in the U.S"
i.e. They're guessing, and their guess doesn't match up with FBI statistics.

"Centers for Disease Control numbers forecast nearly 33,000 shooting deaths, compared to 32,000 traffic deaths"
i.e. They're guessing, and their guess doesn't match up with FBI statistics.

"More guns doesn’t necessarily m[e]an more deaths"

"Winkler suggested the economic downturn could be responsible for a rise in crime and suicides."

[Fartsniffage]

For one, banning guns wouldn't change all that much in terms of US society.

So you're saying it would have little or no effect on the rates of violent crime?

I don't think it would really. Criminals are going to criminal regardless of having a easy access to a gun.

It would, most likely, reduce the number of suicides and accidental gun deaths though.

[Scomagia]

So you can't defend your double standard?

I thought as much.

Nope, you're trying make apples = oranges when it came to the issue of cars and guns.

It's a good thing America has regulations on guns, then. o:

LOL, you call those regulations? They're half-ass at best. Obama has gotten an F on gun control yet he's demonized for wanting to take their guns.

Then answer my initial question about knives. Do you blame knife manufacturers for people stabbing each other?

[United Prefectures of Appia]

*Banning guns wouldn't lead to an outrage*

You're absolutely right on that. We've seen it happen in the Prohibition and the War on Drugs.... Oh wait!

*People would still be able to effectively defend themselves against armed criminals without a gun*

Or perhaps they wouldn't need to at all

*Somehow, despite the overall numbers being greater for cars, guns cause more deaths whenever somebody uses one*
*As the time spent with a gun increases, the probability of going on a killing spree approaches one*

I'd worry more about the growing trend than the current statistics. With the way Corporatism is stifling Congress, you shouldn't be surprise if the NRA pushes the number of states from 14 to 15, then 16 so on and so on.

[Big Jim P]

And what makes you think that at the rate gun control is going, you may not expect to see those numbers reciprocate? This is a trend that can potentially grow unless actually stopped.

Gun control regulations have actually loosened up a bit, since the expiration of the FAWB. As I mentioned previously, gun violence has been on a steady decline despite this. It had been on the decline before the FAWB went into effect, continued to decline while it was in effect, and kept on declining after it expired, which seems to indicate that there's not a big correlation between these types of gun control and violent crime.

I don't see why you're worried about trends when the trend shows that there's less gun crime now than there was ten years ago.

GCFs don't like (thus ignore) the reality that doesn't match up with their agenda. Loosened gun laws and more guns in circulation have not resulted in more crime. GCFs have always cried "blood in the streets" whenever gun laws are loosened, and carry rights expanded, and have yet to be right.

Like I say, the idea of repealing the Second Amendment is a solution looking for a problem.

[Boring People]

I think the second amendment should be replaced, but not because I oppose gun rights... I just think they could have done a better job with that particular amendment.

[Big Jim P]

So you're saying it would have little or no effect on the rates of violent crime?

I don't think it would really. Criminals are going to criminal regardless of having a easy access to a gun.

It would, most likely, reduce the number of suicides and accidental gun deaths though.

Both heavily outnumbered by DGUs and other positive benefits of gun ownership.

[Sevvania]

So you're saying it would have little or no effect on the rates of violent crime?

I don't think it would really. Criminals are going to criminal regardless of having a easy access to a gun.

It would, most likely, reduce the number of suicides and accidental gun deaths though.

Studies of the aftermath of Autralia's gun control efforts showed little or no measurable correlation between suicide rates and the gun laws that had been put into effect. I don't know the numbers for accidental gun deaths in the US, but I doubt it's anywhere close to the number of people who can use their guns without accidentally killing someone.

[Fartsniffage]

I don't think it would really. Criminals are going to criminal regardless of having a easy access to a gun.

It would, most likely, reduce the number of suicides and accidental gun deaths though.

Both heavily outnumbered by DGUs and other positive benefits of gun ownership.

Which is a valid point and something worth discussing. "Cars kill more people than guns" is not.

[Big Jim P]

I don't think it would really. Criminals are going to criminal regardless of having a easy access to a gun.

It would, most likely, reduce the number of suicides and accidental gun deaths though.

Studies of the aftermath of Autralia's gun control efforts showed little or no measurable correlation between suicide rates and the gun laws that had been put into effect. I don't know the numbers for accidental gun deaths in the US, but I doubt it's anywhere close to the number of people who can use their guns without accidentally killing someone.

About 600 in 2011. Compared to 300+million guns and 100+ million gun owners.

[Grinning Dragon]

I don't think it would really. Criminals are going to criminal regardless of having a easy access to a gun.

It would, most likely, reduce the number of suicides and accidental gun deaths though.

Both heavily outnumbered by DGUs and other positive benefits of gun ownership.

Also with such statements, its almost as if they are saying accidental deaths and suicides are tolerable as long as a gun wasn't involved.

[Sevvania]

GCFs

I don't think there's any need for this. This isn't an exchange between nuts and freaks. We're all just people with varying opinions.

[Big Jim P]

GCFs

I don't think there's any need for this. This isn't an exchange between nuts and freaks. We're all just people with varying opinions.

And your opinion is noted.

[United Prefectures of Appia]

GCFs don't like (thus ignore) the reality that doesn't match up with their agenda.

That's funny cause the groups most people think up based on such descriptions are the pro-gunners.

Loosened gun laws and more guns in circulation have not resulted in more crime. GCFs have always cried "blood in the streets" whenever gun laws are loosened, and carry rights expanded, and have yet to be right.

Yet gun violence and suicides by firearms are still on the rise. Gun deaths however have dropped, but not significantly as developed civilizations still laugh in 'Murica's face. But only because doctors have gotten better in patching up people faster.

Like I say, the idea of repealing the Second Amendment is a solution looking for a problem.

I'm not in favor of repealing the 2nd Amendment either.

[Gun Manufacturers]

Nope, it's called being inefficient. It's better if you cut off the snake's head, then the body dies.

https://homemadeguns.wordpress.com/

I prefer this place: http://www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi

There's some real talent on those boards.

[Gun Manufacturers]

Background checks already exist, so not really following what you want here.

Not in my state. It's only for handguns. I think.

FFLs are REQUIRED to perform a background check for every firearm they sell, it's federal law.

[Excidium Planetis]

The 2nd Amendment was written in a time when either Native Americans or Brits were liable to be kicking down your door at any given moment, so a simple flintlock musket was a granted form of defence.

By all means, let the 2nd Amendment stay... but only extend as far as the weapons it was intended for: flintlock muskets. You can still 'defend your castle' with it, but you won't be able to slaughter an entire school in ten minutes.

Actually, the 2nd Amendment was written at a time when America had just overthrown an oppressive monarchy with guns found in homes.

Try overthrowing an oppressive government these days... what do I kill the tanks with, my handgun?

[Fartsniffage]

Both heavily outnumbered by DGUs and other positive benefits of gun ownership.

Also with such statements, its almost as if they are saying accidental deaths and suicides are tolerable as long as a gun wasn't involved.

Fuck off with trying to put words in my mouth. Thank you.

[Fartsniffage]

Studies of the aftermath of Autralia's gun control efforts showed little or no measurable correlation between suicide rates and the gun laws that had been put into effect. I don't know the numbers for accidental gun deaths in the US, but I doubt it's anywhere close to the number of people who can use their guns without accidentally killing someone.

About 600 in 2011. Compared to 300+million guns and 100+ million gun owners.

How many suicides?

[Scomagia]

The 2nd Amendment was written in a time when either Native Americans or Brits were liable to be kicking down your door at any given moment, so a simple flintlock musket was a granted form of defence.

By all means, let the 2nd Amendment stay... but only extend as far as the weapons it was intended for: flintlock muskets. You can still 'defend your castle' with it, but you won't be able to slaughter an entire school in ten minutes.

Actually, the 2nd Amendment was written at a time when America had just overthrown an oppressive monarchy with guns found in homes.

Try overthrowing an oppressive government these days... what do I kill the tanks with, my handgun?

Because Asymmetrical warfare totally hasn't been used to great effect against modern armies.