The Ancap-Ancom Divide.

[Natapoc]

Also how do non ancaps deal with specialization and fueling economic growth?

If everyone has to fend for themselves, how do we have time to become doctors, entrepreneurs, etc.

Why do you strawman so much? It's boring.

Please show me where any anarchist has ever said: "everyone has to fend for themselves"

[Conglomerate of Iron]

Lol, anarchism is the only way to make more food.

When everyone is responsible for themselves, then they will make as much food as possible to support themselves and trade for profit. Do you understand free market?

When everyone is making food for themselves, they're likely not making machines, or gasoline, or fertilizer. Turns out those are hard to make and require extensive cooperation and infrastructure, i.e. a large-scale society. Without them, yields decrease.

You do realize this is a free market, and that people will build things based upon how expensive they get?

[Maqo]

Today the governments manipulate the fiat currencies to control the people. You should not be forced to accept any currency.

And yes, a standardized currency would probably arise. Then there is no problem.

Oh get off the damn kool-aid.
A private company in control of the currency would also be able to 'manipulate the fiat currency to control the people' to the same extent (and most likely more, given the lack of constitutional oversight). Of course, they have as little reason to maliciously control the people as the government does.
Back in reality however, the government manipulates fiat currencies to stabilize or enhance the economy to better the lives of people within the state.


Now riddle me this:
In an anarchist/voluntaryist society, is counterfeiting fiat currency a crime? If so, what anarchist principle do you arrive at to determine that? If not... surely you can see the rapid collapse of every attempt at currency if people are allowed to print their own on demand...

[Skeckoa]

Now riddle me this:
In an anarchist/voluntaryist society, is counterfeiting fiat currency a crime? If so, what anarchist principle do you arrive at to determine that? If not... surely you can see the rapid collapse of every attempt at currency if people are allowed to print their own on demand...

Knowingly passing off something for something it is not is fraud.

If I know that that coin is not really a MaqoPeso but I try to pass it off as one in a trade, that I am committing fraud. Most anarchists believe that fraud is punishable.

[Conserative Morality]

Btw: the state forcibly takes over one third of my income every paycheck. So fuck them.

I wish they'd take more. People like you are the enemy of the masses.

[Anarcho-Communist Collectives]

I don't see the point in labeling ideologies as "anarcho capitalist" or "anarcho communist." In an anarcho communist society, there is no state to ensure that the profit motive is banned. Likewise, in an anarcho capitalist society, there is no state to ensure that collectives and co-operatives don't exist. Frankly, there's just anarchism.

It is extremely important to differentiate the two due to the mutually exclusive nature of the philosophies involved.

"Anarcho-Capitalism" is a misnomer; it is Free-Market Capitalism run rampant with the people still subordinate to an external power/authority (e.g. money).

Anarcho-Communism is a political philosophy wherein private property is abolished whereas "Anarcho-Capitalism" protects the capitalist notion of private property/enterprise.

[The New Sea Territory]

"Capitalism", "Crony Capitalism", and Advice for Market Libertarians

I think this video addresses the issue somewhat. Capitalist companies, under certain conditions, have an incentive to give rise to a state. Not every anarcho-capitalist society would lead to that, but ultimately that threat exists. Mutualism is a much better economic theory.

[Conserative Morality]

Why do you strawman so much? It's boring.

Please show me where any anarchist has ever said: "everyone has to fend for themselves"

It's kind of implied what with the whole 'absence of a state' bit.

[Skappola]

Oh no, if the Anarchists unite then they'll have at least 3% of the population behind them! Imagine what they could do with those numbers!

[Ripoll]

What's the point of anachro-communism, I thought communism itself was an anarchist thought?

Why add the anachro- bit

[Shilya]

When everyone is making food for themselves, they're likely not making machines, or gasoline, or fertilizer. Turns out those are hard to make and require extensive cooperation and infrastructure, i.e. a large-scale society. Without them, yields decrease.

You do realize this is a free market, and that people will build things based upon how expensive they get?

I'm not saying they wouldn't want to build them.

I'm saying they can't. Do you know how hard it is to build a modern harvester, or a tractor? We can build these nowadays because we have a huge amount of state-sponsored infrastructure behind them, that standardize and regulate quality, that make it possible to trust and rely on suppliers. There are thousands working behind the scenes to make one tractor happen, and if a few of them don't stand in line, the whole thing can break down.

If you have the necessary amount of organization, standardization and regulation, as well as the necessary infrastructure to get all the parts and materials in one place, I'm pretty sure you already have a state.

[Conglomerate of Iron]

Btw: the state forcibly takes over one third of my income every paycheck. So fuck them.

I wish they'd take more. People like you are the enemy of the masses.

Yes, my will to be independent should be punished.

Fuck me right?

[Skappola]

What's the point of anachro-communism, I thought communism itself was an anarchist thought?

Why add the anachro- bit

I assume it was to separate themselves from the socialist groups?

[Natapoc]

I wish they'd take more. People like you are the enemy of the masses.

Yes, my will to be independent should be punished.

Fuck me right?

Cong, where are you from? Is the 33? just including income tax or are you including other taxes?

[Conserative Morality]

Yes, my will to be independent should be punished.

Fuck me right?

Indeed.

[Conglomerate of Iron]

You do realize this is a free market, and that people will build things based upon how expensive they get?

I'm not saying they wouldn't want to build them.

I'm saying they can't. Do you know how hard it is to build a modern harvester, or a tractor? We can build these nowadays because we have a huge amount of state-sponsored infrastructure behind them, that standardize and regulate quality, that make it possible to trust and rely on suppliers. There are thousands working behind the scenes to make one tractor happen, and if a few of them don't stand in line, the whole thing can break down.

If you have the necessary amount of organization, standardization and regulation, as well as the necessary infrastructure to get all the parts and materials in one place, I'm pretty sure you already have a state.

You do realize factories would still be run, would still order materials, and would still produce things?

Stop strawmanning. A business will order shit, they will take that shit, and turn it into better shit, just like it has always been.

A free market provides ALL infrastructure needed.

[Conglomerate of Iron]

Yes, my will to be independent should be punished.

Fuck me right?

Cong, where are you from? Is the 33? just including income tax or are you including other taxes?

I am adding in all other taxes.

Sales tax, property tax, all of it.

[Skappola]

I'm not saying they wouldn't want to build them.

I'm saying they can't. Do you know how hard it is to build a modern harvester, or a tractor? We can build these nowadays because we have a huge amount of state-sponsored infrastructure behind them, that standardize and regulate quality, that make it possible to trust and rely on suppliers. There are thousands working behind the scenes to make one tractor happen, and if a few of them don't stand in line, the whole thing can break down.

If you have the necessary amount of organization, standardization and regulation, as well as the necessary infrastructure to get all the parts and materials in one place, I'm pretty sure you already have a state.

You do realize factories would still be run, would still order materials, and would still produce things?

Stop strawmanning. A business will order shit, they will take that shit, and turn it into better shit, just like it has always been.

Not if the infrastructure required to transport the materials and protection of that infrastructure is nonexistant.

[Ripoll]

You do realize this is a free market, and that people will build things based upon how expensive they get?

I'm not saying they wouldn't want to build them.

I'm saying they can't. Do you know how hard it is to build a modern harvester, or a tractor? We can build these nowadays because we have a huge amount of state-sponsored infrastructure behind them, that standardize and regulate quality, that make it possible to trust and rely on suppliers. There are thousands working behind the scenes to make one tractor happen, and if a few of them don't stand in line, the whole thing can break down.

If you have the necessary amount of organization, standardization and regulation, as well as the necessary infrastructure to get all the parts and materials in one place, I'm pretty sure you already have a state.

^^^ this, which leads me to my next question. When does the anarchstic government get to the size and point to where it becomes a state?

[Conglomerate of Iron]

You do realize factories would still be run, would still order materials, and would still produce things?

Stop strawmanning. A business will order shit, they will take that shit, and turn it into better shit, just like it has always been.

Not if the infrastructure required to transport the materials and protection of that infrastructure is nonexistant.

A state is not needed for that.

[The New Sea Territory]

Why do you strawman so much? It's boring.

Please show me where any anarchist has ever said: "everyone has to fend for themselves"

It's kind of implied what with the whole 'absence of a state' bit.

So, you are doubling down on his strawman?

[Skappola]

Not if the infrastructure required to transport the materials and protection of that infrastructure is nonexistant.

A state is not needed for that.

No, but often the state is the only one willing to do that. There's a reason why trade flourished under classical empires: they were the only ones willing to build and maintain the trade routes. Who will have the ability and volition to build, maintain, and protect infrastructure in an Anarchist society?

[Anarkhist Kyrylashka]

What's the point of anachro-communism, I thought communism itself was an anarchist thought?

Why add the anachro- bit

Because then you could be talking about Marxist communism.

[The New Sea Territory]

What's the point of anachro-communism, I thought communism itself was an anarchist thought?

Why add the anachro- bit

This isn't the topic of the thread, but anarcho-communism is a theory of achieving communism that calls for both the abolition of capitalism and the state simultaneously, rather than some transitional stage theory in line with Marxist tendencies.

[Natapoc]

I'm not saying they wouldn't want to build them.

I'm saying they can't. Do you know how hard it is to build a modern harvester, or a tractor? We can build these nowadays because we have a huge amount of state-sponsored infrastructure behind them, that standardize and regulate quality, that make it possible to trust and rely on suppliers. There are thousands working behind the scenes to make one tractor happen, and if a few of them don't stand in line, the whole thing can break down.

If you have the necessary amount of organization, standardization and regulation, as well as the necessary infrastructure to get all the parts and materials in one place, I'm pretty sure you already have a state.

^^^ this, which leads me to my next question. When does the anarchstic government get to the size and point to where it becomes a state?

What an odd definition of state you must have? Do states have a size criteria now?