Fox News Hosts Video of Jordanian Pilot Being Burned Alive

[Fascist Republic Of Bermuda]

If that's your criteria of success, your obviously delusional and stupid.

Then what criteria of success have you been following?

Except for purely military goals, one of those has been an abject failure, one hasn't happened, the third was a temporary fix that's since utterly failed and the fourth is ongoing and possible to wind up as a counterpart to the Iraqi Civil War.

IIRC, The Afghanis have been doing semi-well recently. Not exactly completely fixed, but well on the path to a recovery.

[Imperializt Russia]

Hardly, because it doesn't achieve any of the goals set by IS other than the shock value of knowing it was done.
Which was achieved without showing the footage anyway.

The purpose of releasing that video is for the shock value and to demonstrate their will and their capabilities. They want to make us feel horrified and get whipped into a frenzy over it, and Fox News is falling right in to the trap. And they do it on purpose because they get their ratings off of making their audience afraid of every new threat in the world, no matter how distant or overblown it is.

The shock value exists in the video, which most people need not even see.
The release of the video sets the western media into a frenzy of telling us a video exists and not showing us it.

This is one of the first instances of an execution video, in its uncensored entirety, being shown by the mainstream media. Admittedly hosted online for those who wish to find it, to find it, rather than broadcast (as it should).

Read the beheadings article I posted above.
Most people in the west who watch these videos watch out of a morbid curiosity, and almost all of them watch to watch - they know full well what they're watching, if many could not say why.

[Earl of Sandwich IV]

Both, Iraq and Afghanistan have made massive improvements in terms of human and civil rights in very short time periods. Have they turned into fucking sweden or luxemburg? No, but both societies are lightyears better off compared to the saddam and taliban era. Anybody who denies it is not worth talking to.

Both are still gripped by a tribal civil war.
A tribal civil war, it's worth pointing out, was not occurring prior to western intervention in those states.

I supported and support that western intervention did occur in these states.

A civil war was not occuring in afghanistan prior to US intervention because the most oppressive and brutal fraction had full control. Ignoring that the term 'civil war' is a massive exaggeration.
This would have been unthinkable just a few years back. Say what you want, but the civil and human rights movements of afghanistan have been the main beneficiaries of US intervention, the taliban and other muslim extremists have lost their iron grip on society and politics. That is a success, and a considerable one.
And of all the mistakes the US and it's allies made, pulling out too early is definitely the biggest one.

[Imperializt Russia]

Well that certainly doesn’t have the potential to do any psychological damage to viewers…

Oh please, Liveleak wasn't launched yesterday.

[The Rich Port]

I am actually very hopeful for this, as it means the veil of censorship has been dying.

What most people object to is what it's being used for, which is to spread fear and paranoia among the American people.

FAUX News has a reputation exactly for this.

[Imperializt Russia]

Both are still gripped by a tribal civil war.
A tribal civil war, it's worth pointing out, was not occurring prior to western intervention in those states.

I supported and support that western intervention did occur in these states.

A civil war was not occuring in afghanistan prior to US intervention because the most oppressive and brutal fraction had full control. Ignoring that the term 'civil war' is a massive exaggeration.
This would have been unthinkable just a few years back. Say what you want, but the civil and human rights movements of afghanistan have been the main beneficiaries of US intervention, the taliban and other muslim extremists have lost their iron grip on society and politics. That is a success, and a considerable one.
And of all the mistakes the US and it's allies made, pulling out too early is definitely the biggest one. Not going in in the first place.

I'd like to quickly point out that US intervention helped the relatively prosperous nation of Afghanistan, in the early 1970s, completely tear itself asunder, in conjunction with Soviet intervention on request from the Soviet-supporting government of Afghanistan.

The pouring in of arms, materiel and training allowed a post-Soviet Afghanistan to be a nation of warlords, eventually united (or suppressed) under the Taliban government.

[Conserative Morality]

We've all heard the horror. People aren't saying "Meh, it's just a man being burned alive." Showing the man's death is absolutely unnecessary.

[Conserative Morality]

Both are still gripped by a tribal civil war.
A tribal civil war, it's worth pointing out, was not occurring prior to western intervention in those states.

I supported and support that western intervention did occur in these states.
We didn't do our job right.

Isn't that how it always goes? We head in, we have some good intentions, we have the ability to change things, and then we proceed to fuck up and get out.

[Imperializt Russia]

Both are still gripped by a tribal civil war.
A tribal civil war, it's worth pointing out, was not occurring prior to western intervention in those states.

I supported and support that western intervention did occur in these states.
We didn't do our job right.

Isn't that how it always goes? We head in, we have some good intentions, we have the ability to change things, and then we proceed to fuck up and get out.

America lacks political will. Its citizenry is very sensitive to casualties and is often unwilling to understand or attempt to understand the goals with which its military operations are taken under - as tenuous as those goals may be.

As such, it's highly vulnerable to pressure at home to withdraw, and this withdrawal usually leaves an incomplete job to be fucked up by the local warlord(s).

[The Emerald Dawn]

Isn't that how it always goes? We head in, we have some good intentions, we have the ability to change things, and then we proceed to fuck up and get out.

America lacks political will. Its citizenry is very sensitive to casualties and is often unwilling to understand or attempt to understand the goals with which its military operations are taken under - as tenuous as those goals may be.

As such, it's highly vulnerable to pressure at home to withdraw, and this withdrawal usually leaves an incomplete job to be fucked up by the local warlord(s).

The US military is honestly supposed to be a defensive tool only. The bloody Neo-Con nonsense is what has changed it into the current monster it is.

[Conserative Morality]

America lacks political will. Its citizenry is very sensitive to casualties and is often unwilling to understand or attempt to understand the goals with which its military operations are taken under - as tenuous as those goals may be.

As such, it's highly vulnerable to pressure at home to withdraw, and this withdrawal usually leaves an incomplete job to be fucked up by the local warlord(s).

This is why things have gone (somewhat) better in Afghanistan. When we go in with international support, it gets a little harder to say "Hey guys, thanks for the help but we're really just going to leave this place to rot. Good riddance to bad rubbish, and sorry about getting hundreds of your citizens killed!"

It's also harder to get international support.

Especially when we abuse it.

Also, that reminds me of a quote...

I'm a necessary evil. They want me here. They're glad I'm here. Because if I wasn't, they might have to come try to stem the tide. It would be thankless and worthless, and once the bodies start coming home in bags, they're screwed. A dead 23-year-old from Iowa gets more airtime than the deaths of fifty-thousand people he gave his life to protect. So even if they did give a shit, their own media prevents them from taking action.

[Conserative Morality]

The US military is honestly supposed to be a defensive tool only. The bloody Neo-Con nonsense is what has changed it into the current monster it is.

Oh yes, how monstrous is the idea that genocide and tyranny not only are morally wrong, but also incredibly dangerous to regional and international stability and peace.

Fucking terrible, thinking of the world as connected. What were we thinking? Obviously there's an entire OCEAN between us and the rest of the world! Unless they cross that, we needn't worry about them.

[The Emerald Dawn]

The US military is honestly supposed to be a defensive tool only. The bloody Neo-Con nonsense is what has changed it into the current monster it is.

Oh yes, how monstrous is the idea that genocide and tyranny not only are morally wrong, but also incredibly dangerous to regional and international stability and peace.

Fucking terrible, thinking of the world as connected. What were we thinking? Obviously there's an entire OCEAN between us and the rest of the world! Unless they cross that, we needn't worry about them.

Yes, but when those things happened World War II was carried out.

There's a massive difference between an armed military force engaging in battlefield tactics and a nebulous force that requires the same size military to occupy and police the nation.

The French HAD a government, as did Poland, and even Germany had an oppositional government that was interested in governing.

Can you say the same for the regions here? That you aren't going to just hand the entire country over to a "provisional government" that's going to start killing people the instant you leave?

Nation building is NOT the specialty of US armed forces.

[Conserative Morality]

Yes, but when those things happened World War II was carried out.

And Korea. And the First Gulf War. And the war in Afghanistan.

There's a massive difference between an armed military force engaging in battlefield tactics and a nebulous force that requires the same size military to occupy and police the nation.

Right, the latter is much more dangerous and concerning.

The French HAD a government, as did Poland, and even Germany had an oppositional government that was interested in governing.

Can you say the same for the regions here? That you aren't going to just hand the entire country over to a "provisional government" that's going to start killing people the instant you leave?

They seem to have refrained from doing so thus far. But of course, they're just savages. Clearly, they're biding their time unlike the good, honest, white Germans and French.

Nation building is NOT the specialty of US armed forces.

Yeah, and Britain wasn't too hot at the whole 'unconventional warfare' schtick, but they learned, because the alternative is ultimately failure.

So they better get their asses in gear and hit the books.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Yes, but when those things happened World War II was carried out.

And Korea. And the First Gulf War. And the war in Afghanistan.

There's a massive difference between an armed military force engaging in battlefield tactics and a nebulous force that requires the same size military to occupy and police the nation.

Right, the latter is much more dangerous and concerning.

The French HAD a government, as did Poland, and even Germany had an oppositional government that was interested in governing.

Can you say the same for the regions here? That you aren't going to just hand the entire country over to a "provisional government" that's going to start killing people the instant you leave?

They seem to have refrained from doing so thus far. But of course, they're just savages. Clearly, they're biding their time unlike the good, honest, white Germans and French.

Nation building is NOT the specialty of US armed forces.

Yeah, and Britain wasn't too hot at the whole 'unconventional warfare' schtick, but they learned, because the alternative is ultimately failure.

So they better get their asses in gear and hit the books.

Since you seem to only be interested in putting words in my mouth, I'll simply leave it with the fact that I've experienced the attempts first hand, and have zero interest in others going in and having that kind of "fun".

[Conserative Morality]

Since you seem to only be interested in putting words in my mouth, I'll simply leave it with the fact that I've experienced the attempts first hand, and have zero interest in others going in and having that kind of "fun".

Of course it's not fun. War is brutal, inhumane, and damaging. But there are people with zero interest in having others experiencing this kind of "fun."

[The Emerald Dawn]

Since you seem to only be interested in putting words in my mouth, I'll simply leave it with the fact that I've experienced the attempts first hand, and have zero interest in others going in and having that kind of "fun".

Of course it's not fun. War is brutal, inhumane, and damaging. But there are people with zero interest in having others experiencing this kind of "fun."

That's great. You can't free a people that don't want to be freed by you.

We tried. It failed. I lost my legs, and others have lost worse in the effort.

[Saiwania]

The mistake the US made wasn't necessarily invading Iraq or Afghanistan, it was in trying to build democracies where the culture doesn't allow for it. What the US should've done was what it did in the Cold War era, simply install puppet dictatorships. What really matters is that a tyrant and their dynasty is able to maintain complete control and they can be contained. The dictators can be left to their own devices within their own countries while the rest of the world can go on about its business.

I think removing Saddam from Iraq was a mistake because he had a perfectly solid system going on there.
He could've kept control and was a check to Iran's regional power.

[Mike the Progressive]

As much as I enjoy the frequent lets bitch about how bad fox is... I don't have an issue with this. There is always some organization that does something which offends somebody, whether it be re-showing images of Mohammed from a French magazine or showing somebody being burned alive.

[United Marxist Nations]

The mistake the US made wasn't necessarily invading Iraq or Afghanistan, it was in trying to build democracies where the culture doesn't allow for it. What the US should've done was what it did in the Cold War era, simply install puppet dictatorships. What really matters is that a tyrant and their dynasty is able to maintain complete control and they can be contained. The dictators can be left to their own devices within their own countries while the rest of the world can go on about its business.

I think removing Saddam from Iraq was a mistake because he had a perfectly solid system going on there.
He could've kept control and was a check to Iran's regional power.

That is how Islamist movements spring up, because secular dictatorships cause people to associate secularism with oppression.

He also could've kept control and wiped the Kurds out, but if you want to cherry-pick his actions, that's fine.

[Conserative Morality]

That's great. You can't free a people that don't want to be freed by you.

Right, this is why the Northern Alliance and Awakening Councils of Afghanistan and Iraq didn't side with us en masse, and why the Iraqi army didn't have a huge problem with eager surrendering troops outside of the Republican Guard.

We tried. It failed.

Right, this is why the Taliban currently controls 90% of Afghanistan under an iron fist instead of intimidating some 40% and being pushed into a position where they, for once, feel the need to sue for peace.

I lost my legs, and others have lost worse in the effort.

And it's terrible that such things happen to men and women in the service of our country and the ideals for which it stands, but the alternative is to allow hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of others to suffer. And to take that alternative would cheapen the ideals for which this country stands.

[The Emerald Dawn]

That's great. You can't free a people that don't want to be freed by you.

Right, this is why the Northern Alliance and Awakening Councils of Afghanistan and Iraq didn't side with us en masse, and why the Iraqi army didn't have a huge problem with eager surrendering troops outside of the Republican Guard.

We tried. It failed.

Right, this is why the Taliban currently controls 90% of Afghanistan under an iron fist instead of intimidating some 40% and being pushed into a position where they, for once, feel the need to sue for peace.

I lost my legs, and others have lost worse in the effort.

And it's terrible that such things happen to men and women in the service of our country and the ideals for which it stands, but the alternative is to allow hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of others to suffer. And to take that alternative would cheapen the ideals for which this country stands.

Strange how "this country" wouldn't have had to stand for it if "this country" didn't ship arms to that country in the first place.

Don't act like it's suddenly about righteousness when the problem was created by the very kind of interventionism you espouse.

[Conserative Morality]

Strange how "this country" wouldn't have had to stand for it if "this country" didn't ship arms to that country in the first place.

Don't act like it's suddenly about righteousness when the problem was created by the very kind of interventionism you espouse.

Don't act like the kind of interventionism I espouse is the same as Cold War realpolitik. It's not 'suddenly' about righteousness. I hold my views because I think America (And more broadly, the West as a whole) can be a force of stability in this world, a force against the excesses of tyrants, not because I think we've always been like that. We've done shitty things in the past, caused the exact problems I think we should solve. That only strengthens my conviction that we should be a part of the solution rather than withdrawing from the world at large and letting the suffering continue.

[Imperializt Russia]

Right, this is why the Northern Alliance and Awakening Councils of Afghanistan and Iraq didn't side with us en masse, and why the Iraqi army didn't have a huge problem with eager surrendering troops outside of the Republican Guard.

Right, this is why the Taliban currently controls 90% of Afghanistan under an iron fist instead of intimidating some 40% and being pushed into a position where they, for once, feel the need to sue for peace.

And it's terrible that such things happen to men and women in the service of our country and the ideals for which it stands, but the alternative is to allow hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of others to suffer. And to take that alternative would cheapen the ideals for which this country stands.

Strange how "this country" wouldn't have had to stand for it if "this country" didn't ship arms to that country in the first place.

Don't act like it's suddenly about righteousness when the problem was created by the very kind of interventionism you espouse.

Cold War interventionism was a very different beast to what the west has been shipping out since the fall of the Soviets.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Strange how "this country" wouldn't have had to stand for it if "this country" didn't ship arms to that country in the first place.

Don't act like it's suddenly about righteousness when the problem was created by the very kind of interventionism you espouse.

Don't act like the kind of interventionism I espouse is the same as Cold War realpolitik. It's not 'suddenly' about righteousness. I hold my views because I think America (And more broadly, the West as a whole) can be a force of stability in this world, a force against the excesses of tyrants, not because I think we've always been like that. We've done shitty things in the past, caused the exact problems I think we should solve. That only strengthens my conviction that we should be a part of the solution rather than withdrawing from the world at large and letting the suffering continue.

And to, of course, force purely western values on the people you claim interest in freeing.

I do love me some White Man's Burden.