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Government overreach is a heinous crime.

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The Emerald Dawn
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Ex-Nation

Government overreach is a heinous crime.

Postby The Emerald Dawn » Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:48 am

Senator Tillis has our backs though.

So, how much overreach is too much overreach? Where's that nebulous sweet spot that puts everything into the Goldlocks zone of "not touching my tacos with your junk funk" and "not invading my uterus with a Senate Committee"?

There's a balance to be had here, and the US (despite what some may think) is actually one of the better countries in the world at handling that balance.

I'm just not terribly sure that we should call health and sanitation regulations "government overreach".

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Sdaeriji
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Postby Sdaeriji » Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:51 am

I always use health codes as a counterpoint to someone arguing against government regulation of business, because they seem like the sort of thing that it is impossible to be against. I guess I was wrong.
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Romalae
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Romalae » Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:52 am

Sdaeriji wrote:I always use health codes as a counterpoint to someone arguing against government regulation of business, because they seem like the sort of thing that it is impossible to be against. I guess I was wrong.

You must not live in America.
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Tyrinth
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Postby Tyrinth » Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:52 am

The answer depends on the person. It's subjective.

That said, if you can't find attempts at overreach in America, you probably aren't looking very hard.
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The Emerald Dawn
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Postby The Emerald Dawn » Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:53 am

Sdaeriji wrote:I always use health codes as a counterpoint to someone arguing against government regulation of business, because they seem like the sort of thing that it is impossible to be against. I guess I was wrong.

It is great that in the article someone posits that "the free market" would take care of the hand washing issue, so long as companies posted signs saying that they don't require hand washing.

Which requires the follow-up question, who's enforcing the sign posting?

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New Werpland
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New York Times Democracy

Postby New Werpland » Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:56 am

The main flaw with this kind of liberal restriction of government, is that they don't take into account the individual's dependence on society. An Individual is created by his society, without a society people would have no preferences or beliefs, we would simply be empty(more realistically we would be like animals). Therefor the State can have a bigger role in people's lives than most liberals believe, because the voluntarist conception of a person is wrong.

(I edited this to make it sound better several times)
Last edited by New Werpland on Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:20 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Sdaeriji
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Postby Sdaeriji » Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:58 am

The Emerald Dawn wrote:
Sdaeriji wrote:I always use health codes as a counterpoint to someone arguing against government regulation of business, because they seem like the sort of thing that it is impossible to be against. I guess I was wrong.

It is great that in the article someone posits that "the free market" would take care of the hand washing issue, so long as companies posted signs saying that they don't require hand washing.

Which requires the follow-up question, who's enforcing the sign posting?


Yeah, that's necessarily the next question, isn't it? What's less intrusive about mandating the sign posting versus the actual hand washing?
Farnhamia wrote:What part of the four-letter word "Rules" are you having trouble with?
Farnhamia wrote:four-letter word "Rules"

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Dooom35796821595
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Dooom35796821595 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:10 am

I think the CDC would like to have a word with the good senator. :lol:
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Kelinfort
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Ex-Nation

Postby Kelinfort » Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:27 am

Government should only seek to protect and forward the public interest in the economy, but not in a way to hurt free enterprise where possible. Socially, the government should only protect the life, liberty, and property of indviduals, and not forward any notion of morality beyond, "thou shalt not kill," and, "thou shalt not steal/perjure."

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Occupied Deutschland
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Occupied Deutschland » Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:45 am

The senator does have a point. Hand-washing requirements are about the most inane and impossible to enforce thing that could be introduced besides wearing gloves whilst pooping. If someone doesn't wash their hands, a sign that says they gotta isn't going to make them (one might compare it to the TSA. It's there to make the people who don't work there feel better) and there isn't, to my knowledge, any enforcement arm of the CDC dedicated to hand-washing requirements. Nor should there be. Because that's stupid as well. Just more stupid and more wasteful than needless signage.

That said, there are much better examples of government overreach, and much larger points of concern revolving around governmental interaction with the private sector (subsidies, military contracting, banking and market regulations being either too lenient or too strict varying on size of the company involved instead of broad law, etc.)
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The Emerald Dawn
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Postby The Emerald Dawn » Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:49 am

Occupied Deutschland wrote:The senator does have a point. Hand-washing requirements are about the most inane and impossible to enforce thing that could be introduced besides wearing gloves whilst pooping. If someone doesn't wash their hands, a sign that says they gotta isn't going to make them (one might compare it to the TSA. It's there to make the people who don't work there feel better) and there isn't, to my knowledge, any enforcement arm of the CDC dedicated to hand-washing requirements. Nor should there be. Because that's stupid as well. Just more stupid and more wasteful than needless signage.

That said, there are much better examples of government overreach, and much larger points of concern revolving around governmental interaction with the private sector (subsidies, military contracting, banking and market regulations being either too lenient or too strict varying on size of the company involved instead of broad law, etc.)

I have seen fines and penalties levied by health inspectors catching employees not washing their hands, though. It *does* exist as a thing.

Expecting companies that serve products for physical consumption to follow appropriate sanitation procedures isn't inane, it's essential to preventing a hell of a lot of lawsuits.

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Occupied Deutschland
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Occupied Deutschland » Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:54 am

The Emerald Dawn wrote:
Occupied Deutschland wrote:The senator does have a point. Hand-washing requirements are about the most inane and impossible to enforce thing that could be introduced besides wearing gloves whilst pooping. If someone doesn't wash their hands, a sign that says they gotta isn't going to make them (one might compare it to the TSA. It's there to make the people who don't work there feel better) and there isn't, to my knowledge, any enforcement arm of the CDC dedicated to hand-washing requirements. Nor should there be. Because that's stupid as well. Just more stupid and more wasteful than needless signage.

That said, there are much better examples of government overreach, and much larger points of concern revolving around governmental interaction with the private sector (subsidies, military contracting, banking and market regulations being either too lenient or too strict varying on size of the company involved instead of broad law, etc.)

I have seen fines and penalties levied by health inspectors catching employees not washing their hands, though. It *does* exist as a thing.

Expecting companies that serve products for physical consumption to follow appropriate sanitation procedures isn't inane, it's essential to preventing a hell of a lot of lawsuits.

They accompany employees into the bathroom?
These health inspectors are sounding incredibly creepy to me.
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The Emerald Dawn
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Emerald Dawn » Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:56 am

Occupied Deutschland wrote:
The Emerald Dawn wrote:I have seen fines and penalties levied by health inspectors catching employees not washing their hands, though. It *does* exist as a thing.

Expecting companies that serve products for physical consumption to follow appropriate sanitation procedures isn't inane, it's essential to preventing a hell of a lot of lawsuits.

They accompany employees into the bathroom?
These health inspectors are sounding incredibly creepy to me.

The health inspectors actually use the bathroom as a "customer". If they note an employee come in, they'll note whether or not they wash their hands. It's indicative of poor training, which is an area of concern if you're serving food. Not all inspections are announced.

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Ethel mermania
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:02 pm

I know I am not eating anything sen. Tills prepares.
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Shilya
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Postby Shilya » Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:28 pm

I think we should invite the good senator for dinner somewhere.

Then once he finished eating, we'll inform him that no one involved in making his dinner bothered to adhere to hand washing regulation.
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Mike the Progressive
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Postby Mike the Progressive » Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:29 pm

Shilya wrote:I think we should invite the good senator for dinner somewhere.

Then once he finished eating, we'll inform him that no one involved in making his dinner bothered to adhere to hand washing regulation.


So in other words a food truck? You don't have to tell him that. It's sort of an understanding that comes with getting food from one.
Last edited by Mike the Progressive on Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Shilya
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Postby Shilya » Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:31 pm

Mike the Progressive wrote:
Shilya wrote:I think we should invite the good senator for dinner somewhere.

Then once he finished eating, we'll inform him that no one involved in making his dinner bothered to adhere to hand washing regulation.


So in other words a food truck? You don't have to tell him that. It's sort of an understanding that comes with getting food from one.


No, a regular place. Just gotta get them to lie to him if necessary. Or bribe them enough to offset any fine they may incur.
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SaintB
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Ex-Nation

Postby SaintB » Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:04 pm

It has all come together, I know what the GOPs replacement for The Affordable Healthcare Act is! A national pandemic that kills off the poor!

Think about it. More than one Republican presidential hopeful has within the last week said that vaccinations should be voluntary or in Rand Paul's case that they are proven to cause mental issues (a claim that has been scientifically debunked so many times that elementary students debunk it as a school project*). Now they have members of their party stepping forward to claim that its an abuse of government power for health inspectors and the CDC to require people that handle food and et all to wash their hands. Combine that with their insistence that people don't need to be able to afford to pay for doctor's visits when they get sick and it paints a picture of a national conspiracy to kill off the masses through infectious disease! They can just let nature do the job for them and then they don't have to feel guilty or take any direct actions - they just need to convince the paupers that they'll be fine wallowing in sewage without any sort of preventative measures or medical care and watch them drop like flies.

This is their plan for healthcare reform (if there are less poor people there will be less uninsured people to make unpaid ER visits) and their solution to poverty and income equality (kill off the poor via diseases). Fucking genius!**

*May be a hyperbolic statement on my part for further details check my signature.
** See above.
Hi my name is SaintB and I am prone to sarcasm and hyperbole. Because of this I make no warranties, express or implied, concerning the accuracy, completeness, reliability or suitability of the above statement, of its constituent parts, or of any supporting data. These terms are subject to change without notice from myself.

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